276 point heals every 12 seconds - unlimited uses

[weewoo0]

-Disregard- was looking at your comment about 15pally/3monk/2rog, didnt see build had wizard in it instead in the scrollable view.

I would doublecheck paladin on the test server because last time I checked it out they didn't get echoes of power, which this build is partly centered around. Admittedly, that was a while ago so it may have changed or been my imagination, but bears double-checking.

the 2 wizard gives him echoes of power.

and yes - handwraps are a superior option for this build in theory. in practice however it is unlikely to be run in such a fashion that they would be better until later in the toon's life (after epic gem/jidz/claw gloves which i doubt many people here can afford to toss on a new toon without a good chunk of work). till then however the longswords are nice... i guess.... still doesn't have quite the attack speed or the versatility of the wraps but oh well... better vorps i guess :/

[Darkrok]

This is an interesting build idea! I know that you mentioned using a Torc, but does it function with a focus on draining the SP bar as quickly as possible for the Echoes regen/constant healing? Or do the mana regeneration items play a more prominent role?

One lowbie Robe that I'd recommend would be the Robe of the Duality from Catacombs, it would make for 8-minute self cast Shield/Exp Retreat spells using Extend.

The Torc/Con-Opp tries to keep you from 0sp. Echoes of Power is there to make it so that even if you DO happen to get there you'll still have enough sp's in a few seconds to maintain the base operations of the build.

As for that robe, I absolutely love that thing on low level toons. I might consider it at low levels for my other wizard abuse toon I've been playing as well, HHHH.

[Darkrok]

and yes - handwraps are a superior option for this build in theory. in practice however it is unlikely to be run in such a fashion that they would be better until later in the toon's life (after epic gem/jidz/claw gloves which i doubt many people here can afford to toss on a new toon without a good chunk of work). till then however the longswords are nice... i guess.... still doesn't have quite the attack speed or the versatility of the wraps but oh well... better vorps i guess :/

I'd have to look at the math though as I don't think you get divine sac/smite hits with the offhand while using handwraps. I *think* that you'll still come out ahead but only when not smiting.

Because of the great damage output while smiting I would personally want to have the option of longswords. You could still use handwraps - you'd just be missing improved critical unless you gave up Quicken for it. Given epic claw gloves I'd probably switch to wraps when not smiting and back to longswords when smiting. For me the spike damage of double-smites would be worth the feats still.

[JollySwagMan]

I'd have to look at the math though as I don't think you get divine sac/smite hits with the offhand while using handwraps. I *think* that you'll still come out ahead but only when not smiting.

You still get smites/sacrifices/etc. with offhand hits when using handwraps...However, given that Stuns/Holds etc. would no longer provide autocrits, it would seem that the increased speed/full offhand Str damage of handwraps is less useful when spamming Smites, than a high crit range weapon would be.

Another muddying factor is how you may get more use out of timed buffs like Divine Might, Divine Favour, versatality enhancements etc. with a faster attack speed, but these extra attacks may not make up the difference compared to fully boosted critical smites - especially without sneak attack damage.

[Tobril]

You still get smites/sacrifices/etc. with offhand hits when using handwraps...

Prove it.

As of a week ago this isn't true on live.

[Darkrok]

You still get smites/sacrifices/etc. with offhand hits when using handwraps...However, given that Stuns/Holds etc. would no longer provide autocrits, it would seem that the increased speed/full offhand Str damage of handwraps is less useful when spamming Smites, than a high crit range weapon would be.

Another muddying factor is how you may get more use out of timed buffs like Divine Might, Divine Favour, versatality enhancements etc. with a faster attack speed, but these extra attacks may not make up the difference compared to fully boosted critical smites - especially without sneak attack damage.

See Tobril's post above about getting offhand smites.

Other than that issue though your post hits on all the issue very well. There are tons of factors that go into the use wraps/use longswords decision-making process. I think it will work out to be highly situational on many factors including the ones that you listed, number of bursting ToD rings, etc.

[JollySwagMan]

Prove it.

As of a week ago this isn't true on live.

...will a screenshot suffice, or do you need a video?



(I don't have video recording software myself, so you can recreate the experiment by:

1. Rolling up a vet status Monk/Paladin
2. Stepping into a quest that has evil critters
3. Find a decently healthy enemy (Slayers in this case)
4. Smite, then hit your screenshot key immediately...took a couple tries for me.

Hmm. Come to think of it, this doesn't say anything about Sacrifice though. I don't have a Monk/Paladin of sufficient level available that can test this, but perhaps there is a bug with Divine Sacrifice that you have noticed, and this is why you think smites don't work with handwraps..? Feedback and further testing appreciated.

[Tobril]

...will a screenshot suffice, or do you need a video?



(I don't have video recording software myself, so you can recreate the experiment by:

1. Rolling up a vet status Monk/Paladin
2. Stepping into a quest that has evil critters
3. Find a decently healthy enemy (Slayers in this case)
4. Smite, then hit your screenshot key immediately...took a couple tries for me.

Hmm. Come to think of it, this doesn't say anything about Sacrifice though. I don't have a Monk/Paladin of sufficient level available that can test this, but perhaps there is a bug with Divine Sacrifice that you have noticed, and this is why you think smites don't work with handwraps..? Feedback and further testing appreciated.

You are partly correct.

You will get your regular attack and effects for both “hands” on a smite /w wraps.

What you do not get is the smite damage of the attack. (same for sacrifice)


Your paladin may be a bit too low level to easily see the difference in damage
between the smite and regular attack.


My 16/2/2 switched to 15/3/2 when WSS was first introduced.

He behaved this way when testing on lamannia way back then,
as well as on live a couple of days ago during his last abbot.
(yes I use handwraps situationally)

I’ll try to put together a video to show this, but it will be a couple
of days before I can do to work shenanigans.

[JollySwagMan]

You are partly correct.

You will get your regular attack and effects for both “hands” on a smite /w wraps.

What you do not get is the smite damage of the attack. (same for sacrifice)


Your paladin may be a bit too low level to easily see the difference in damage
between the smite and regular attack.


My 16/2/2 switched to 15/3/2 when WSS was first introduced.

He behaved this way when testing on lamannia way back then,
as well as on live a couple of days ago during his last abbot.
(yes I use handwraps situationally)

I’ll try to put together a video to show this, but it will be a couple
of days before I can do to work shenanigans.

Hmm - do you see the combat log in the screenshot? Going from 5-9 points of damage to 21-23 damage on a non crit...? That increase in damage makes your statement confusing to me.

I made sure that he wasn't using earth strikes, power attacks, or even magical handwraps in order to make the combat log easier to read.

[Tobril]

Hmm - do you see the combat log in the screenshot? Going from 5-9 points of damage to 21-23 damage on a non crit...? That increase in damage makes your statement confusing to me.

I made sure that he wasn't using earth strikes, power attacks, or even magical handwraps in order to make the combat log easier to read.

Upon examining the log a little closer you may be right about the regular smite.

I could swear exalted smite was not behaving this way, and have sceenshots of sacrifice for sure not working.

Is this lamannia or live?

[JollySwagMan]

Upon examining the log a little closer you may be right about the regular smite.

I could swear exalted smite was not behaving this way, and have sceenshots of sacrifice for sure not working.

Is this lamannia or live?

This is live. Fresh character. You said 'prove it'

[Tobril]

This is live. Fresh character. You said 'prove it'

Hey man, if it works great.

At one point it was not and I have the screenshots to prove it.

I'm still going to try exalted smite and divine sacrifice to see if they are working now.


Of note, wraps still lose out on the ravager set, GS options, (besides amp) and have a more complicated gearing requirement due to rings.

[Tobril]

Below is a Picasa albulm from about five minuites ago showing different behavior with exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

Early shots are with level 16 mabar wraps, later shots are bare-handed.

Looks like only the main hand is getting an attack.


https://picasaweb.google.com/tobril/...eat=directlink

[JollySwagMan]

Below is a Picasa albulm from about five minuites ago showing different behavior with exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

Early shots are with level 16 mabar wraps, later shots are bare-handed.

Looks like only the main hand is getting an attack.


https://picasaweb.google.com/tobril/...eat=directlink

Thanks for posting that up...you're right, it does look like only one exalted/sacrifice is hitting. Any clues as to why there's a difference between regular smites and exalted/sacrifice in this regard?

(On a tangent here, I wonder about an exploration of Fists of Iron, Smites/Sacrifice, and WSS - presumably the nerf to Healing Ki would provide more incentive to use non Light strikes?)

[Tobril]

Thanks for posting that up...you're right, it does look like only one exalted/sacrifice is hitting. Any clues as to why there's a difference between regular smites and exalted/sacrifice in this regard?

(On a tangent here, I wonder about an exploration of Fists of Iron, Smites/Sacrifice, and WSS - presumably the nerf to Healing Ki would provide more incentive to use non Light strikes?)

Probably because the devs don't really focus much on feat/enhancement interactions for strangly multiclassed characters.

It takes time to generate test scripts, both manual and automated. Considering there is always limited resources in any dev shop it makes more sense for them to focus on examining the more common combinations.

That being said, they did correct the light finisher to operate as described. Things like this, set requirements on tod rings, and other changes seem to indicate devs advocate pure or close-to-pure builds.

They also, however, made a highly controversial change regarding the monk-specific stunning fist ability to make it better for splash characters than pure.

Honestly at this point who knows what they are smoking right now?