(TPG) Problems with loading game continue

[Wolja]

The issue seems to peak when more data is being transmitted between the system and the servers, so higher level characters and post updating seem to be areas where this is coming up the most.

Unfortunately it is an issue with TPG's network or networking provider and is outside of our scope.

I sometimes wonder if Turbine staff trained with an ISP as the stock answer of it's not our problem seems common.

It is partly your problem in that you seem to send an inordinate amount of data from the server to the client and in a asynchronous apparently unacked fashion that contributes to the problem as the loss of a packet or two, 4% packet loss when I was having my issue , shouldn't cause the client to lock. Rather the client should just do a refresh.

Given Aussies are usually always playing non peak blaming it on peak traffic is a bit over the top.

[WhiskeyWarrior]

All I can say is roll on the 10th when I will be done with them and be back with an ISP that knows what they are doing and dont try and give you the run around. I aint saying who here, but I advise looking around, and dont fall for these high bandwidth deals, I can tell you now that you can easily play DDO and the likes with just 50Gig, unless you are someone that downloads more than usual.

Same here, search for a new ISP begins (thinking Internode)

The mistake I made was going with the flow when my old ISP merged into TPG. Didn't bother considering a change then, big mistake

[Mirthgar]

I sometimes wonder if Turbine staff trained with an ISP as the stock answer of it's not our problem seems common.

It is partly your problem in that you seem to send an inordinate amount of data from the server to the client and in a asynchronous apparently unacked fashion that contributes to the problem as the loss of a packet or two, 4% packet loss when I was having my issue , shouldn't cause the client to lock. Rather the client should just do a refresh.

Given Aussies are usually always playing non peak blaming it on peak traffic is a bit over the top.

Unfortunately the fact is that the ISP is not routing data, if it were within the auspices of the game network there would be a) alot more people affected and posting, and b) steps that could and would be taken by our engineering/network teams, since its an external issue to the games network all we can do is offer advice on steps to try.

The difficult part is with routing issues like this even possible "workarounds" like proxies/VPN's might not work if the connection to those still passes through the affected systems.

I would love to be able to say "we're working on it internally, more info to come" if I could but there's nothing we can do except make suggestions as to steps to try, when its a regional ISP's network causing the issues.

When players on Suddenlink were having issues connecting it was traced back by them (Suddenlink) to a specific switch in their network hosting providers site, again it was a situation where all we could do was offer info and steps to try to troubleshoot around the issue, but a direct "fix" in these cases is just something that can only be provided by the ISP or their support.


One thing it does seem like is a possible peer-to-peer tiering or management system, when the inbound data gets to "X" in size I wonder if they may be de-tiering its bandwidth and putting it on a lower priority connection hence the slower connection time for older characters whereas newer "alts" seem to load without issue. The game doesn't use P2P to connect but the protocols and data packets it does use (most p2p apps use UDP as well) can "look" like it from the network point of view, so they might be seeing the games connection as a peer to peer one and de-tiering/shaping its bandwidth down to a lower priority.

I want to say players on another ISP ran into this awhile back but the ISP added the games to an exclusion list for these so they were basically "ignored" by the packet shaping they did do for actual p2p connections.

[Jaikula]

Same here, search for a new ISP begins (thinking Internode)

The mistake I made was going with the flow when my old ISP merged into TPG. Didn't bother considering a change then, big mistake

Go with any ISP that offers online gaming servers. Those will automatically put exclusions in place such as those Mirthgar has mentioned.

[Fletrunner]

Yo yo time:
Back working today.

Connection to server seems to be working OK last night and today.

Putting in a trace route with correct operation for reference

(only difference I see is that the round trip is a lot faster, specifically at step 9+)

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\John>tracert gls.ddo.com

Tracing route to gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  . [192.168.1.1]

  2    22 ms    22 ms    22 ms  10.20.20.67
  3    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  adl-sot-way-csw1-port-channel-14.tpgi.com.au [22
0.244.137.1]
  4    23 ms    23 ms    23 ms  adl-sot-way-crt2-ge-4-1-0.tpgi.com.au [203.29.13
5.25]
  5    43 ms    44 ms    43 ms  syd-nxg-men-crt2-ge-8-3.tpgi.com.au [202.7.162.2
5]
  6   199 ms   199 ms   200 ms  hagg-04-xe-0-2-0.ptld.twtelecom.net [66.193.45.5
]
  7   205 ms   206 ms   206 ms  lax2-pr1-xe-0-0-0-0.us.twtelecom.net [66.192.253
.170]
  8   384 ms   393 ms   384 ms  xe-1-2-0.bos11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.183.13]
  9   281 ms   283 ms   281 ms  internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.77.54]
 10   281 ms   282 ms   281 ms  border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128
.107]
 11   282 ms   283 ms   282 ms  74.201.102.105
 12   282 ms   282 ms   285 ms  74.201.102.154
 13   281 ms   282 ms   281 ms  gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13]
Trace complete.

The not working version:

Ah bother - borked again today.

Will be chasing up ISP with Turbine comments and a tracert.

C:\Users\John>tracert gls.ddo.com

  5    47 ms    46 ms    48 ms  syd-nxg-men-crt2-ge-8-3.tpgi.com.au [202.7.162.2
5]
  6   202 ms   203 ms   201 ms  hagg-04-xe-0-2-0.ptld.twtelecom.net [66.193.45.5
]
  7   210 ms   210 ms   210 ms  lax2-pr1-xe-0-0-0-0.us.twtelecom.net [66.192.253
.170]
  8   391 ms   392 ms   446 ms  xe-1-2-0.bos11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.183.13]
  9   387 ms   386 ms   387 ms  internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.77.54]
 10   386 ms   386 ms   387 ms  border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128
.107]
 11   387 ms   386 ms   386 ms  74.201.102.105
 12   388 ms   387 ms   387 ms  74.201.102.154
 13   386 ms   388 ms   428 ms  gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13]

Trace complete.

[tyga250]

Im still not working. Looking at my tracert (below), hops 2,3 and 4 are running thru different paths. I imagine 2 to be the Elizabeth exchange.

Tracing route to gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  NB6PLUS4.home [192.168.1.1]
  2    15 ms    14 ms    14 ms  10.20.21.18
  3    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  adl-sot-way-csw2-port-channel-12.tpgi.com.au [22
0.244.137.5]
  4    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  adl-sot-way-crt2-ge-4-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.29.13
5.29]
  5    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  syd-nxg-men-crt2-ge-8-3.tpgi.com.au [202.7.162.2
5]
  6   215 ms   191 ms   191 ms  hagg-04-xe-0-2-0.ptld.twtelecom.net [66.193.45.5
]
  7   197 ms   197 ms   196 ms  lax2-pr1-xe-0-0-0-0.us.twtelecom.net [66.192.253
.170]
  8   390 ms   421 ms   387 ms  xe-1-2-0.bos11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.183.13]
  9   375 ms   376 ms   376 ms  internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.77.54]
 10   375 ms   376 ms   375 ms  border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128
.107]
 11   375 ms   376 ms   375 ms  74.201.102.105
 12   376 ms   375 ms   375 ms  74.201.102.154
 13   375 ms   375 ms   374 ms  gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13]

Trace complete.

[tyga250]

Ok, did some digging around and there are a lot of TPG users having problems with all MMO, specifically US servers. There is some good information as well as steps to hopefully resolve the issue in this thread: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...?t=1689015&p=5

One of the users 'Duideka' explains the problem much more eloquently than I could so I'll just quote him:

The first thing to understand is the problem is rather complex, TPG have multiple links with 4 providers to USA;
Hurricane Electric
TATA Telecom
Time Warner Telecom.
Cogentco (only seen this in Brisbane so far)

All of these use Southern Cross which has a latency of roughly 145ms syd>sjc when not congested (not including firsthop latency)

Now, to utilize all of this connectivity most ISP's would simply use BGP to balance the traffic load – they would route certain as numbers over different paths in attempt to achieve a decent balance without causing higher latency, this works great because it applies to everyone. If one person has a problem with one path, everyone will, it makes it a snap to determine problems and work around them.

TPG instead barely utilize BGP, and route depending on your IP address – they will simply say, all US based traffic from x.x.x.x/xx routes over this link, end of story.

In theory this works okay and makes it a fair bit easier to balance traffic, but this leads us to another issue that makes problems very hard to diagnose.

TPG HEAVILY utilize MPLS, MPLS is basically what ISP's use to have more control over traffic, without MPLS your traceroutes would be ridiculously long as every device your traffic passes through is shown, and it may end up going where you don't want it.

This means, in 99.99% of cases – what you see outputted when you traceroute to something is fairly inaccurate, TPG is not the only ISP to use MPLS, but they take it to another level, especially if you are tracing something directly connected to their network, ie;

Tracing route to hagg-04-xe-0-2-0.ptld.twtelecom.net [66.193.45.5]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192-168-1-254.tpgi.com.au [192.168.1.254]
2 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms per-pow-stg-bras4-po-2.tpgi.com.au [10.20.21.93]

3 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms per-pow-stg-csw2-po-3.tpgi.com.au [202.7.175.105]
4 205 ms 205 ms 205 ms hagg-04-xe-0-2-0.ptld.twtelecom.net [66.193.45.5]

Trace complete.

This is indicating the Perth core router is connected directly to TPG's transit provider in USA with nothing in-between, obviously not the case – I'd also like to point out from Brisbane, on Telstra you got 191ms whereas me from Perth which introduces alot more latency, is getting 205ms to that. TPG's network is quite honestly fantastic, and they have some of the best connectivity (only Internode is clearly better)... but if you are unfortunate enough to be placed on a congested USA>SJC segment, your going to get pretty poor performance.

[Pehtis]

OMG here I thought I was alone with this problem. My problem is I connect all ok, choose a character, it loads up, but then my UI is blank and I can't interact with anything at all (but I can move the character though).


FYI - This is exactly what I emailed Turbine on April 27 (I included screenshots) trying to explain the problem exactly. WARNING wall of text coming! Skip to bottom if want.


1) Today I was playing without much incident (character Kleftis, Trayoudis) until I logged into the character Mayosmihani for some inventory management. After approximately 10 mins I noted unusual activity. The item desciption highlight no longer functioned. When I logged out I noted that the entire red log off bar did not come up at all, and took quite some time to eventually log off (I've learned not to touch anything during log off process and was patient).

2) I logged onto the character Trayoudis and noted the whole UI had disaapeared, as well as it being all squashed up. This was the exact situation I experienced when I last reported the problem.

3) I exited the program entirely, completely closed my computer, then rebooted my computer.

4) I logged onto the character Idikos (didn't wan't to damage my higher level characters further) with the view of providing you a record of the problem experienced.

4.1 As expected experienced the exact same problem of the UI disappearing (Refer to screenshot files 00000).

4.2 I waited patiently several minutes but the UI did not fill itself (refer to screenshot files 000001, 000002, 000004, and 000005).

4.3 The character could move around but could not interact with anything except moving from one screen to the next (refer to screenshot files 000006, 000007, and 000008)

4.4 I then logged out and patiently waited for the log out process which took a whole minute or so and without a red bar showing (refer to screenshot files 000009, 000010)

5) I exited the program once more and rebooted. Upon logging on again as Idikos I had similar problem. I then exited the program again.

6) Clean boot of Windows. I followed your previous email instruction and did a clean boot of windows and followed all steps outlined.

6.1 After restart I logged onto the character Idikos and found the UI 'seemed' fine (refer to screenshot files 000011, 000012)

6.2 After approximately 3-5 mins the item desciption highlight no longer functioned refer to screenshot files 000013. I knew right then the problem recurred.

6.3 I then logged out and patiently waited for the log out process without a red bar showing (refer to screenshot files 000014, 000015, and 000017)

7) I re-applied my boot of Window settings back to Normal.

8) After restart I decided to give it some time (did some basic surfing of the news) before I once more tried logging in.

8.1 I logged onto the character Idikos again and found the entire UI had dissapeared again. I then immediately logged out (refer to screenshot files 000018)

I do hope all of the above is helpful and provides you an insight into the problem.

Kind regards,




I have had this problem for the last month but has become terminal in the last few weeks. It's tough to sort out because I work a lot (who dosn't right ) and trying to find the time to sort out.

I followed Turbines intstruction to fix but didn't work. Trying to sort this with TPG but I can't answer their questions regarding 'traceroute' and something else they asked regarding pathway (I forgot exactly what was asked something about their IP address I think but not sure).


Coincidentally my brother has ADSL with Telstra (he lives 2 blcoks away) and the game works fine. We are both from Melbourne, Australia. So I have to agree with Turbine that the problem is with TPG.

Has anyone with TPG have the problem fixed or is this terminal?

[tyga250]

Game was working yesterday but stopped this morning at approx 1am.

I have email forum_admin@tpg.com.au again -.-

[lorentian2004]

I'm also having the exact same kind of problems, worse with higher lvl toons etc. The real kick in the pants is that on MY laptop I'm having this problem, yet on my gf's laptop which is located approximately 1ft south of mine is just fine. I've tried ipconfig/dnsflushing, reinstalling&repairing, router rebooting, all to no avail, and I don't think it's a code error, and additionally I don't think it's an ISP error if she's fine on hers and mine is a burning hunk of wreckage and we're on the same wireless. The only other thing is that I don't use TPG, I'm not even in AUS. I'm in CAN. So really my question is: Does the cure just seem to be "wait a while?", or is there a better solution?

[Mirthgar]

I'm also having the exact same kind of problems, worse with higher lvl toons etc. The real kick in the pants is that on MY laptop I'm having this problem, yet on my gf's laptop which is located approximately 1ft south of mine is just fine. I've tried ipconfig/dnsflushing, reinstalling&repairing, router rebooting, all to no avail, and I don't think it's a code error, and additionally I don't think it's an ISP error if she's fine on hers and mine is a burning hunk of wreckage and we're on the same wireless. The only other thing is that I don't use TPG, I'm not even in AUS. I'm in CAN. So really my question is: Does the cure just seem to be "wait a while?", or is there a better solution?

I would say you're not encountering the issue reported by the posters here, this one is specific to a particular ISP, in your case I would recommend running through the steps here and opening a tech support request if you haven't yet.