New savant SLA DPS numbers

[Valiance]

Also a lot of the spells are AoE effects and all of these calculations are for a boss, ie single target. A group of mobs will make the dps go up considerably.

Also many of these spells are ranged which is a huge boost. While the barb is still running towards the target you can hit him with 3 spells before the melee even gets there. Another large factor.

Still, the savant pre should probably be boosted a bit but these numbers are probably starting to get right about where the devs want them.

V

[Tyrande]

Also a lot of the spells are AoE effects and all of these calculations are for a boss, ie single target. A group of mobs will make the dps go up considerably.

Also many of these spells are ranged which is a huge boost. While the barb is still running towards the target you can hit him with 3 spells before the melee even gets there. Another large factor.

Still, the savant pre should probably be boosted a bit but these numbers are probably starting to get right about where the devs want them.

V

I don't see your point?

Most of the ice spells are single target:

0) Biting Cold: single target.
1) Polar Ray: single target.
2) Niac's: single target.
3) Frost Lance: single target.

4) Ottilukes Freezing Sphere: Very bad spell, missing most monsters most of the time, most of the time only single target if it doesn't miss.

5) Horrid Wilting: Very bad spell in terms of damage versus mana efficiency. (Also, no damage boosting items except ToD clickies, i.e. no potency items)

[LeLoric]

4) Ottilukes Freezing Sphere: Very bad spell, missing most monsters most of the time, most of the time only single target if it doesn't miss.

Otiluke's was fixed with this most recent update to lammania and now has a aoe effect similar to ball lightning or dbf.

[jkm]

The new version of the Spell DPS Calc will automaticly generate a sequence that (in theory should) put out the highest DPS.

I wish I knew some programing language, open office calc is really limited sometimes . So it takes some time to do more complicated things. It have also been a busy week and I haven't had much spare time.

I'm sure it will be ready "soon", but don't hold your breath

If you were using excel, you could use the solver add in to get an optimized combo. Just maximize damage and minimize seconds.

[TheIvanovFamily]

Otiluke's was fixed with this most recent update to lammania and now has a aoe effect similar to ball lightning or dbf.

\.(^_^)./

yayifications

[TechNoFear]

None of the calcs show the cost of the PrE.

The calcs all assume that the curse is effective for its entire duration. How many mobs last 20 seconds? (apart from bosses and epic)

What is the Savants DPS against mobs immune to their chosen element?

Just considering the up side to the PrE appears to be a poor way to balance it, given the massive downside to this PrE (feat, APS and loss of ~40% damage to the opposing element)

I think I will just ignore this PrE until new spells are released, the balance is imporved and retain my sorcs versatility.

Bad imo. Melee can likely sustain 800+ dps vs held targets forever.. Just by holding rightclick, and maybe tapping the odd boost every 30-60s.

While a sorc with flawless gear and a flawless complex execution of many spells and debuffs over a short time unloading his whole mana bar under frenzy only barely beats it. pfft. Should be way higher.

Dont forget that mobs will no longer have any Fortification due to the groups of 5 Favoured Souls in every raid (the ones that were going to be Ice savants....)

[mystafyi]

Dont forget that mobs will no longer have any Fortification due to the groups of 5 Favoured Souls in every raid (the ones that were going to be Ice savants....)

This will be nerfed a few weeks after it hits live..... dont worry

[B0ltdrag0n]

Don't be so optimistic. There is still likely enough time for another Lama buiild before we go live, so as to nerf that too

[Monkey_Archer]

Some more numbers... again, these are theoretical maximums that likely cant actually be reached, but will be the highest you can get close to.

5 minute cold dps:

28'159.9 ice storm x 10 (150 ticks) @ 610 sp
100'393 biting cold x 20 (426 ticks) @ 1120 sp
11'423.7 polar ray x 11 @ 616 sp
~49'431 SLAs @ 630 sp
-------
189'407 @ 2976 sp

631.4 dps


10 minute cold dps:

33'791.9 ice storm x 12 (180 ticks) @ 732 sp
206'442 biting cold x 40 (876 ticks) @ 2240 sp
--------
240'234 @ 2972 sp

400.4 dps

[Monkey_Archer]

So for a cold savant here are the approximate numbers...

Theoretically up to 1300 dps with all gear and perfect execution (likely around 1000 in game) for 1 minute.

Around 600 dps maximum for 5 minutes on static targets where you can keep 3 biting cold's stacked.

Around 400 dps maximum for 10 minute, also on static targets with biting cold stacked 3 times.

Less then 200 dps sustainable for 20 minutes spamming SLAs.

[Arctigis]

\.(^_^)./

yayifications

It's more like fireball than DBF. DBF has a very large AOE.

[Trillea]

It's more like fireball than DBF. DBF has a very large AOE.

Still better than it was - a lot better.

[TechNoFear]

Looking at the numbers for the SLA DPS over a range of saves.

	% of saves failed		
	5%	50%	95%
Cold	78	166	254
Air	152	183	214
Fire	91	130	169
Acid	135	162	190
			
Air (no touch)	72	103	134

If the Air Savant is uncomfortable touching mobs their DPS drops to the lowest.

Cold Savant is highest and lowest based on their DC.

Fire looks very under powered, given the level of fire immunity as well.

Acid is a solid choice no matter your DC.

It takes ~50% of your time to get this DPS (13 spells in 24 sec).


NOTES:
Used Monkey's spell damage calcs.

[Monkey_Archer]

Fire looks very under powered, given the level of fire immunity as well.

All 3 fire SLAs are AOE now though, so lower dps is to be expected given how much more damage they can do against multiple targets.

[Shade]

Meh since the devs seem to love numbers..

Can you edit your OP to actually include some realistic numbers?

I mean you include zero saves? Not hapening in the real game. Put a realistic amount like 50% saves on the SLAs please. And 5% for just plain misfires and misses.

You can keep the max "theoretical" nonsense that will never happen in there seperate, but put together some more realistic figures for the devs to chew on please.

You also say sustainable for XX minuts and that someone could actauly burn 3000SP on just SLAs (or full nukes)? Again no, doesnt happen. People cast buffs and other things. Set aside 500 sp for buffs/etc, and give the sorc a more reasonable total of 2900sp (my max geared sorc doesnt even have 3k, and given savants feat requirements and likely desire to have full evocation, if not also conjuration spec, they arent getting mental toughness) So 2400 SP.

Then you go and say the MAX DPS can only happen for 58 seconds. Yet include total damage figures for 100 seconds? What are they drinkign a ton of mana pos without taking any time to do it?.. Do it correctly please.

I also don't know many casters who carry 3+ 3x damage clickies to sustain them 27+ min, most have 1, or 2 at the most, but whatever that point doesnt matter much.

[Zerkul]

Even if i'm a lover of theoretical maximums since i'm a statistics degreed man, for "some" (and not just some) reason i agree with Shade. Numbers needs to be realistic else they are just numbers nothing else.

[Monkey_Archer]

Ok, here goes...

Meh since the devs seem to love numbers..

Can you edit your OP to actually include some realistic numbers?

I mean you include zero saves? Not hapening in the real game. Put a realistic amount like 50% saves on the SLAs please. And 5% for just plain misfires and misses.

The SLA dps numbers do include 50% chance for the mob to save:

Frost Lance
96 base * 2.25 * 2.7 * 1.315 = 766.91
766.91 * 75% (50% save chance) = 575.18
575.18 / 8 second cooldown = 71.9 dps

Damage is multiplied by 75% (half of the time you do 50% damage + half of the time you do 25% = 75% average)

The same save percentage was used for other dps calcs unless otherwise noted.

You can keep the max "theoretical" nonsense that will never happen in there seperate, but put together some more realistic figures for the devs to chew on please.

The theoretical max of ~1300 is intended to be the impossibly unreachable ceiling.
If you work out a rotation thats actually possible ingame, as Trillea did in post #20, the real max dps is only around 1000.

You also say sustainable for XX minuts and that someone could actauly burn 3000SP on just SLAs (or full nukes)? Again no, doesnt happen. People cast buffs and other things. Set aside 500 sp for buffs/etc, and give the sorc a more reasonable total of 2900sp (my max geared sorc doesnt even have 3k, and given savants feat requirements and likely desire to have full evocation, if not also conjuration spec, they arent getting mental toughness) So 2400 SP.

With the sorc past life (which qualifies as prereq for savant instead of spell focus) its fairly easy to get 3000 sp... Also, i usually refill my sp after buffing with vile/bauble/etc..
I'm not saying people will actually use all ~3000 sp on noting but SLAs for 20 minutes, i'm just saying its possible if you want to get the most damage from your sp

Then you go and say the MAX DPS can only happen for 58 seconds. Yet include total damage figures for 100 seconds? What are they drinkign a ton of mana pos without taking any time to do it?.. Do it correctly please.

100 seconds was just an arbitrary duration to calculate the average damage. Doing it correctly, (calculating sp first, then total damage over the duration your sp would last) would achieve roughly the same average damage... maybe a bit more since you dont have to activate eardweller twice... either way though it really doesn't matter since that number is just theoretical and unreachable anyway.

[Noelemahc]

either way though it really doesn't matter since that number is just theoretical and unreachable anyway.

It does matter because a dev just admitted to following these numbers as if they ARE real and reachable, while you just admitted they are theoretical and unreachable. That is why Shade and others are asking for a real dps chart, not a theoretical one. If the real dps output of a Savant is super broken then fine, I can live with that. In practice on Lamannia, I am high dps for a very limited duration then I have nothing left in the tank.

Sorcerers as arcane dps SHOULD outdamage melee by a very wide margin because they can only do it for a very short time. Melee are high dps indefinitely while using almost 0 resources to do so. That's something that people fail to understand. That's not balance. Balance would be allowing Sorcerers to do their high dps (comparable to melee) indefinitely as well while burning almost 0 resources. But the melee biased people would throw a fit if that happened.

[GIGISOR]

It does matter because a dev just admitted to following these numbers as if they ARE real and reachable, while you just admitted they are theoretical and unreachable. That is why Shade and others are asking for a real dps chart, not a theoretical one. If the real dps output of a Savant is super broken then fine, I can live with that. In practice on Lamannia, I am high dps for a very limited duration then I have nothing left in the tank.

Sorcerers as arcane dps SHOULD outdamage melee by a very wide margin because they can only do it for a very short time. Melee are high dps indefinitely while using almost 0 resources to do so. That's something that people fail to understand. That's not balance. Balance would be allowing Sorcerers to do their high dps (comparable to melee) indefinitely as well while burning almost 0 resources. But the melee biased people would throw a fit if that happened.

NO WAY ,that would mean that the dev's don't actualy play DDO and they only do they'r dev's thing in a break from WOW or any other mmo.

[Monkey_Archer]

It does matter because a dev just admitted to following these numbers as if they ARE real and reachable, while you just admitted they are theoretical and unreachable. That is why Shade and others are asking for a real dps chart, not a theoretical one.

Ah. Interesting. Ok, for clarification:

The 130-180 dps from SLAs only are real and possible and do include reasonable 50% save chances.

The ~1300 max dps is impossible, and is based only on cooldowns, not an actual spell cycle.

The ~900 dps cycle Trillea posted in post #20 is real and possible(but complicated)


The ~1000 dps cycles I posted in #22 are almost possible (when trying working out the exact sequence i always ended up loosing 1-2 of each spell) so it is likely overestimating by about 10%

The ~400 sustained dps for 10 minutes is possible and easy, but assumes triple stacked biting cold, so would only be realistic on bosses (if the boss lasts 10 minutes)

The ~600 sustained dps for 5 minutes is theoretical, and would likely be difficult to cycle properly, but should be fairly close to a real 5 minute dps cycle

I'll try to come up with a realistic semi long term (5-10 minutes) trash nuking cycle that doent rely on tripple stacking or cursing.... guessing its gonna be around 300 dps....