THIS is why you play a sorc or a savant

[crazydamage]

Thank god the sorc savant PRE seems balanced now.

You play an ARCANE (sorc/wiz) because you enjoy playing the most powerful class PreU9 or PostU9.

The most powerful class with the most powerful CC ability.
The most powerful instant death (Finger/Wail) which dominates all sub lvl 20 quests and raids (shroud/vale etc) and will dominate epics in U9 (circle of death, power word kill).
The most powerful "convenience" abilities : Teleport, Greater teleport, haste, Jump, Invis, Featherfall, DDoor, shadowwalk etc.

You play SORC because you appreciate the advantages vs a wizard
Double SP From SP items
Faster casting animations
Much shorter spell cooldowns than a wizard
CHA based caster class with powerful UMD
Capstone with +20% DMG

You play a SAVANT because you appreciate the free and balanced special abilities
Cheap SLAs for sustained DPS during red named fights for all the people that cried that they couldnt do anything. Now you can rotate spamming 3 keys every 8 seconds (or however long for each of them).
Free non stacking curse for a bit of a dmg boost ON TOP OF YOUR 20% CAPSTONE.
Free "perk" Abundant step/knockdown immunity / earthgrab ETC.

Weakened in 1 element - WHO CARES you have THREE Other elements PLUS Force. Sorcs u9 have only fire/cold.

[Maegin]

First!

[Thrudh]

First!

I'm going to have to neg rep you if you keep doing that.

[Thrudh]

I'm going to have to neg rep you if you keep doing that.

heh, I got neg-repped myself...

So you guys really want "First!" posts to start popping up on these forums?

[voodoogroves]

heh, I got neg-repped myself...

So you guys really want "First!" posts to start popping up on these forums?

The internet is both amazing and stupid at the same time. I gave up being surprised by internet behavior a long time ago.




On Topic ...


Playing a Sorc is one thing. Investing in Savant is another. I suspect there will be a fair chunk of Sorcs that don't bother because of the feat cost, esp. for an in-flight Sorc or one already at cap.

I also suspect that sorc PREs are going to get typecast in PUGs. "We don't want an X sorc, we want a Wizard or a Y Sorc only". C'est la vie.

[Kabaon]

Playing a Sorc is one thing. Investing in Savant is another. I suspect there will be a fair chunk of Sorcs that don't bother because of the feat cost, esp. for an in-flight Sorc or one already at cap.

I also suspect that sorc PREs are going to get typecast in PUGs. "We don't want an X sorc, we want a Wizard or a Y Sorc only". C'est la vie.

Really from what I can see it comes down to this, what do you wanna do at end game? be a dc sorc or a dps sorc.

If Dc sorc, don't invest in savants, if dps, invest in savants. Personally I'm building a dps sorc, I have a dc caster already, time to do the opposite.

Also, I doubt sorc savants will be typecast except in certain situations, like undead quests and your a water savant, at the same time though, if you grab a few acid spells overall in spite of the nerfs, fine.

But it wouldn't suprise me if lfm's pop up anyway typecasting sorcs.

[voodoogroves]

heh, I got neg-repped myself...

So you guys really want "First!" posts to start popping up on these forums?

Haha this is awesome I got neg-repped for commiserating with you. I love the internets.

[Qezuzu]

We need a compilation video of sorcs rocking out general endgame stuff.

It's a great PrE but people are dooming about something they've never really played.

[Alcamez]

Thank god the sorc savant PRE seems balanced now.

You play an ARCANE (sorc/wiz) because you enjoy playing the most powerful class PreU9 or PostU9.

The most powerful class with the most powerful CC ability.
The most powerful instant death (Finger/Wail) which dominates all sub lvl 20 quests and raids (shroud/vale etc) and will dominate epics in U9 (circle of death, power word kill).
The most powerful "convenience" abilities : Teleport, Greater teleport, haste, Jump, Invis, Featherfall, DDoor, shadowwalk etc.

You play SORC because you appreciate the advantages vs a wizard
Double SP From SP items
Faster casting animations
Much shorter spell cooldowns than a wizard
CHA based caster class with powerful UMD
Capstone with +20% DMG

You play a SAVANT because you appreciate the free and balanced special abilities
Cheap SLAs for sustained DPS during red named fights for all the people that cried that they couldnt do anything. Now you can rotate spamming 3 keys every 8 seconds (or however long for each of them).
Free non stacking curse for a bit of a dmg boost ON TOP OF YOUR 20% CAPSTONE.
Free "perk" Abundant step/knockdown immunity / earthgrab ETC.

Weakened in 1 element - WHO CARES you have THREE Other elements PLUS Force. Sorcs u9 have only fire/cold.

I am truly honest and sorry that even after reading this I do not feel any better, but I will provide you with +1 REP for trying.

[Hafeal]

That's crazy talk - you mean people might actually enjoy the changes when they hit!?? You, sir, are clearly not fit for these forums.

[Jaid314]

Thank god the sorc savant PRE seems balanced now.

You play an ARCANE (sorc/wiz) because you enjoy playing the most powerful class PreU9 or PostU9.

The most powerful class with the most powerful CC ability. no, that would be wizards only.
The most powerful instant death (Finger/Wail) which dominates all sub lvl 20 quests and raids (shroud/vale etc) and will dominate epics in U9 (circle of death, power word kill). no, that would be pre-U9 when we could actually spam those
The most powerful "convenience" abilities : Teleport, Greater teleport, haste, Jump, Invis, Featherfall, DDoor, shadowwalk etc. again, that would be wizard for the most part. i access teleport, greater teleport, invis, and featherfall through items. i keep ddoor around because everyone *else* makes me, not because it's such a good spell i don't have room for anything else. ditto for haste: best spell for melees, not that much better than expeditious retreat for me. jump? well, ok, fair enough. i don't have to wait until i get a level 18 belt for that, which is pretty nice. except, of course, it can be replaced eventually by a level 18 belt... and i only get more convenient access to those, not sole access to them. for example, the fighters i group with largely *also* have access to those abilities, through me.

You play SORC because you appreciate the advantages vs a wizard
Double SP From SP items which is getting less meaningful with every SP restore item that comes out and gives the same SP to either class.
Faster casting animations which is generally countered by wizards having quicken, plus 4 other feats.
Much shorter spell cooldowns than a wizard no, this is what i have right *now*. it is most definitely not what i will have come U9, at least not with the best spells in the game.
CHA based caster class with powerful UMD which i need primarily because i don't have reliable self-healing in the first place, and which can largely be replaced by sufficient gear. i get *easier* access to high UMD, again, this is not *exclusive* access by any means.
Capstone with +20% DMG which still generally leaves me below the DPS ability of a melee.

You play a SAVANT because you appreciate the free and balanced special abilities
Cheap SLAs for sustained DPS during red named fights for all the people that cried that they couldnt do anything. Now you can rotate spamming 3 keys every 8 seconds (or however long for each of them). yes, now i can *look* useful, which is almost as good as actually being useful if some of the people i've grouped with are any indication. oh goody.
Free non stacking curse for a bit of a dmg boost ON TOP OF YOUR 20% CAPSTONE. which will still leave me weaker in raids then a good melee.
Free "perk" Abundant step/knockdown immunity / earthgrab ETC. and all it cost me was blowing a feat on one of the most feat-starved classes in the game! oh, and also costs me the ability to cast some of the few useful spells in the game, leaving me to fill even more of my spell slots with garbage.

Weakened in 1 element - WHO CARES you have THREE Other elements PLUS Force. Sorcs u9 have only fire/cold.

who cares? me. i care. if savant spells didn't include non-nuking spells, then you'd probably be right about not caring, because those spells are for the most part not good enough to care about. who cares about being able to penetrate SR with flesh to stone? ME. who cares about having a long-lasting cloudkill to keep the raid boss from dealing so much damage? ME. who cares about having the best persistent DPS in the game (still, after multiple nerfings) which is about the only thing that has allowed sorcerers to get through quests efficiently? ME. who cares about being able to use the second-best and third-best such spells, if i so choose, which fill in for those situations where the best one is not viable? ME.

I CARE. that's why i'm not taking a PrE that takes the least useful aspect of my class and buffs it up to the point where it is still the least useful aspect of my class.

[Alcamez]

who cares? me. i care. if savant spells didn't include non-nuking spells, then you'd probably be right about not caring, because those spells are for the most part not good enough to care about. who cares about being able to penetrate SR with flesh to stone? ME. who cares about having a long-lasting cloudkill to keep the raid boss from dealing so much damage? ME. who cares about having the best persistent DPS in the game (still, after multiple nerfings) which is about the only thing that has allowed sorcerers to get through quests efficiently? ME. who cares about being able to use the second-best and third-best such spells, if i so choose, which fill in for those situations where the best one is not viable? ME.

I CARE. that's why i'm not taking a PrE that takes the least useful aspect of my class and buffs it up to the point where it is still the least useful aspect of my class.

You know in all honest THE PRE's are nice. The simple fact is you do a spell change mixed with all of this and it seems like they increased because of decrease only to decrease the increase to leave us no better than we started off. It is almost like slight of hand or a bad magic trick. Some people are going to say wow that was awesome some are going to say umm dude I can see the rabbit in your pocket.

[Jaid314]

You know in all honest THE PRE's are nice. The simple fact is you do a spell change mixed with all of this and it seems like they increased because of decrease only to decrease the increase to leave us no better than we started off. It is almost like slight of hand or a bad magic trick. Some people are going to say wow that was awesome some are going to say umm dude I can see the rabbit in your pocket.

the PrEs would be nice if they didn't cost so much, maybe. i mean, if they were going to give me knockdown immunity and wings (even if the wings aren't as good as FvS wings) actually for free, i'd be all over that. heck, i'd even gladly pay a cost comparable to what rogues pay for assassin, or monks pay for shintao, or even comparatively what fighters pay for kensei. but the comparative cost is not similar, it is in fact quite a bit more harsh. then to add in that i basically can cross flesh to stone off my spell list (no longer reliable) or something like that? meh. i'll be better off without it. if i had any choice, i would keep my current fire/ice spec instead.

[crazydamage]

who cares? me. i care. if savant spells didn't include non-nuking spells, then you'd probably be right about not caring, because those spells are for the most part not good enough to care about. who cares about being able to penetrate SR with flesh to stone? ME. who cares about having a long-lasting cloudkill to keep the raid boss from dealing so much damage? ME. who cares about having the best persistent DPS in the game (still, after multiple nerfings) which is about the only thing that has allowed sorcerers to get through quests efficiently? ME. who cares about being able to use the second-best and third-best such spells, if i so choose, which fill in for those situations where the best one is not viable? ME.

I CARE. that's why i'm not taking a PrE that takes the least useful aspect of my class and buffs it up to the point where it is still the least useful aspect of my class.

You play an ARCANE (sorc/wiz) because you enjoy playing the most powerful class PreU9 or PostU9.

The most powerful class with the most powerful CC ability. no, that would be wizards only.The best sorcs CC just fine as it is and the best sorcs will continue to CC acceptable even with minion debuff.
The most powerful instant death (Finger/Wail) which dominates all sub lvl 20 quests and raids (shroud/vale etc) and will dominate epics in U9 (circle of death, power word kill). no, that would be pre-U9 when we could actually spam thoseSorcs have 1/2 the cooldown on instant death vs wizards
The most powerful "convenience" abilities : Teleport, Greater teleport, haste, Jump, Invis, Featherfall, DDoor, shadowwalk etc. again, that would be wizard for the most part. i access teleport, greater teleport, invis, and featherfall through items. i keep ddoor around because everyone *else* makes me, not because it's such a good spell i don't have room for anything else. ditto for haste: best spell for melees, not that much better than expeditious retreat for me. jump? well, ok, fair enough. i don't have to wait until i get a level 18 belt for that, which is pretty nice. except, of course, it can be replaced eventually by a level 18 belt... and i only get more convenient access to those, not sole access to them. for example, the fighters i group with largely *also* have access to those abilities, through me. if you are a sorc USE SCROLLS. Your melee can never get DDoor and unlikely GT/teleport

You play SORC because you appreciate the advantages vs a wizard
Double SP From SP items which is getting less meaningful with every SP restore item that comes out and gives the same SP to either class.Extra SP is never meaningless especially 400 more SP
Faster casting animations which is generally countered by wizards having quicken, plus 4 other feats.
Much shorter spell cooldowns than a wizard no, this is what i have right *now*. it is most definitely not what i will have come U9, at least not with the best spells in the game.Yes their cooldowns on all spells are much less
CHA based caster class with powerful UMD which i need primarily because i don't have reliable self-healing in the first place, and which can largely be replaced by sufficient gear. i get *easier* access to high UMD, again, this is not *exclusive* access by any means.
Capstone with +20% DMG which still generally leaves me below the DPS ability of a melee.

You play a SAVANT because you appreciate the free and balanced special abilities
Cheap SLAs for sustained DPS during red named fights for all the people that cried that they couldnt do anything. Now you can rotate spamming 3 keys every 8 seconds (or however long for each of them). yes, now i can *look* useful, which is almost as good as actually being useful if some of the people i've grouped with are any indication. oh goody.
Free non stacking curse for a bit of a dmg boost ON TOP OF YOUR 20% CAPSTONE. which will still leave me weaker in raids then a good melee.Why are you trying to replace melee. Does melee wail the portals in shroud, or stone the orthons in ToD. etc.
Free "perk" Abundant step/knockdown immunity / earthgrab ETC. and all it cost me was blowing a feat on one of the most feat-starved classes in the game! oh, and also costs me the ability to cast some of the few useful spells in the game, leaving me to fill even more of my spell slots with garbage.

Weakened in 1 element - WHO CARES you have THREE Other elements PLUS Force. Sorcs u9 have only fire/cold.

[Skyeson]

Weakened in 1 element - WHO CARES you have THREE Other elements PLUS Force. Sorcs u9 have only fire/cold.

I don't necessarily think the weakened element matters too much, although it probably means only 3 of the savants are worth considering unless more spells come out. With limited sorc spells and ap you may already have annexed an element from your spell list. I don't have any electric atm.

I think the splitting of the enhancement lines may be an issue. Although you can get more power, the additional ap costs probably mean you can only max out (or close to max out) 2 elements. So previously you could have maxed out fire and ice and gotten most of force or acid/elec.

So while at the moment I have maxed otu fire and ice and good force, I figure I'll probably have more gimped max damagel as I plan for some versatility.

[Aeolwind]

I don't necessarily think the weakened element matters too much, although it probably means only 3 of the savants are worth considering unless more spells come out. With limited sorc spells and ap you may already have annexed an element from your spell list. I don't have any electric atm.

I think the splitting of the enhancement lines may be an issue. Although you can get more power, the additional ap costs probably mean you can only max out (or close to max out) 2 elements. So previously you could have maxed out fire and ice and gotten most of force or acid/elec.

So while at the moment I have maxed otu fire and ice and good force, I figure I'll probably have more gimped max damagel as I plan for some versatility.

You can skip the PRE and max 3 lines out if you sac 2 AP from somewhere else. And save a feat. So, you could have 3 very viable high damage lines and get better DC's.

Reliable mass hold = 50% boost in damage, sorc PrE kinda kills being able to get reliable DC's and only boosts damage by 15% to 1 target (excluding the focus field, in which case it would be slightly more, but is instantly offset by your counter focus). With PLF's and some fairly rare gear you might could get the reliable hold ratio on a sorc with the PrE, but still, you are only doing 15% more damage to 1 target. And if you go ice, you'd lose WOF effectiveness, fire loses polar ray, air doesn't really lose anything, and acid doesn't really gain anything because of the crappy spells available for it and the poor implementation of acid rain/fog.

I don't even have a sorc and can see the gaps in the play book. If you want to be a 1 trick pony, then the sorc PrE is the way to go. But due to the variation in content, you will be far less desirable in many quests depending on which path you choose if you have nothing to fall back on.

[Zaodon]

Your melee can never get DDoor and unlikely GT/teleport

Greater Mark of Travel.