Please Remove "Echoes of Power"

[Scraap]

The SLAs where increased because they needed to be increased if you remove eop they wont, i didnt misunderstand anything some people started to clearly talk about its power, I made a statement to the opposite effect.

context

Balancing for Echoes of Power would be my guess.

That's correct.

Doesn't get simpler to understand.

[fyrst.grok]

/signed

Haven't even seen it pop up on a level 5 sorc yet, never run out of sp on my fvs. But the introduction of EoP nerfed my evoker-wiz back to useless sla dps.. -_-

[Tinco]

Doesn't get simpler to understand.

It's like the lag and the DA. SLA's needed their own pass, completely independent from EoP or whatever. EoP might have been a small part of the equation, mostly because of low-level sla shenanigans I guess, but that's not the whole picture. Whether the sla-pass was successful is a completely different topic though.

[KillEveryone]

....

I actually like playing spellsinger in a healer role because of the buffs and CC that goes with that class. That is why I haven't played my cleric in such a long time.

Pallens is my first FvS from a wiz first life. Just passing through a few FvS lives for spell pen. Not as familiar with this class but I'm comfortable with the spells and comfortable playing healer if I have to. Got plenty of practice with Quickymart, my first spellsinger to cap.

Fewer SP on a bard than a cleric. You learn how to manage SP.

Not exactly sure what you were saying but this is why I didn't play my cleric in such a long time.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Eladrin

That's correct.

Doesn't get simpler to understand.

It's knee jerk reactions like this that make you wonder about the understanding devs have on the game.

For a level 20 wizard with around 2000sp, EoP (12sp) affects the bottom 0.6% of the sp bar. And to fix this blatent overpoweredness they double Evocation SLA sp cost which impacts you from 100% down to 0%. Really? Double digit IQ should quickly identify that it's not a bright move.

I mean they could have just doubled the SLA cost while EoP was active so that 100% down to 0.6% was unaffected.

The whole Archmage SLA list of every spell school needs an overhaul anyway, but it's hard to imagine anything usefull happening while things like the above scenario happen.

[rsking]

/not signed
so i read a post how there going to get rid of the monks ki spamming.
heres the problem with ppl and there main idea of a monks ki.

most ki used to be generated on crits ( Turbine took that away), so now most monks had to rebuild there characters to go fire stance to maintain there ki.

Note: fire stance gains ki when you hit the oponent. mountain stance gains ki when you get hit by a oponent. wind and ocean i can't remember.

so with that clearification down lets get back to my problem with removing ki spamming. most monks that are fire stance can spam ki all day long aslong as they keep hiting there oponent, on the other hand mountain stance you gain ki when you hit your openate aswell but u don't generate ki as fast as a fire stance monk. mountain stance also gains ki when you hit by an oponent.

so far all i've seen most power players that have epic builds do is cry on the forums saying they want a challange.
OK YOU WANT A CHALLANGE MAKE A GIMPED BUILD AND TRY AND MAKE IT BETTER!!!!
thats my advice for u ppl that complain about classes/abilitys/spells that are overpowered. so stop making it harder for the rest of us that have a life out side the game.

[Stormdum]

Any ability the requires you to adjust an entire PRE and part of another one should just be removed. There were no great cheers from the addition of this ability but there has been a massive outcry to the changes attributed to it. Please just remove it and put the related changes back as they were.

Thanks

Exactly what way were you "REQUIRED" to adjust 2 PREs? I found this post to be somewhat vague. I have seen no "massive outcry" in relation to the topic either. Is there a thread you can direct me to so I can read more about this before /signing?

[Bodic]

Exactly what way were you "REQUIRED" to adjust 2 PREs? I found this post to be somewhat vague. I have seen no "massive outcry" in relation to the topic either. Is there a thread you can direct me to so I can read more about this before /signing?

SLA's were changed to account for echo's of power increasing cooldowns and costs for something that never triggers once you get to lvl 6 and begin to get the SLA's.
and to teh massive outcry yes you have read this thread. or search echos of power

[fluffybunnywilson]

Here's the problem.

Echoes of Power as the 'reason' was a red herring. The truth is that Turbine has decided that any class/pre/spec that can benefit from reaction time in the pressing of buttons needs to have that ability toned down. Cooldowns have been lengthened on necro abilities. Nuking SLA's for wizards and sorc's alike have had their cooldowns lengthened. Monk ki generation has been reduced to levels where spamming ki strikes will no longer be an option.

I believe removing 'ability spam' is the real reason for the changes that have been made. Echoes of Power was just a convenient scapegoat.

I agree with what Darkrok said. Even if cooldowns and spell point costs aren't changed from what they are now, though, I'd still like to see Echoes of Power go away.


Well played spellcasters are much more powerful in many areas than well played melee characters for as long as the spellcasters have spell points left. Once the spellcasters run out of spell points, then the melee characters obviously are going to be more powerful than the casters. Echoes of power ruins part of that balance by ensuring that the casters will never be completely out of spell points.

[Grenada]

After running a sorc for a while, i have to say that echoes of power is taking away from the game (no resource management required at low levels, meaning new players will be bad casters later on). That, and i hate having my SLA take 2-3X as long as the original spell to be reuseable.

[goodspeed]

**** on that, your ticked cause you wiz can keep ccing? The hells the matter with you. The only thing echo's did was save cash in not having A stack of bought pots.

You should still have a stack of pots if your worth a ****, but it at least made a caster half way easy to do slayer instead of walking in and walking out 20 times to a melee's one.

And whats with the self righteousness? It's like me saying ya ive been playing eq forever. Back then we couldn't just teleport everywhere we had to run land to land. Do I care? Hell no you know how much flppn time it saves? Do you know how much easier it is with those 12 sp?

And lets take a look at those 12 sp. Just 12. Doesn't seem like alot but with a wiz's sla's it goes a ways. However these sla's themselves aren't a big deal, I mean somthing like niacs? No the only way they really pack a punch is with something like meta magic.

Hey!! You know I think that's creating bad sorcerers and wizards. They don't understand the value of meta magic. Yep, I think we should tack on meta magic to sla's. Turn that 2 sp spell into a 39 sp spell. Because it builds better mages right? WELL?

[fluffybunnywilson]

**** on that, your ticked cause you wiz can keep ccing? The hells the matter with you. The only thing echo's did was save cash in not having A stack of bought pots.

You should still have a stack of pots if your worth a ****, but it at least made a caster half way easy to do slayer instead of walking in and walking out 20 times to a melee's one.

There are rest shrines in every slayer area. Kill a few dozen critters and then go shrine. Kill a few dozen more and shrine again. Kill the rest of the map and then recall to reset the instance.

And whats with the self righteousness? It's like me saying ya ive been playing eq forever. Back then we couldn't just teleport everywhere we had to run land to land. Do I care? Hell no you know how much flppn time it saves? Do you know how much easier it is with those 12 sp?

And that's the problem.

How much fun would it be if melee characters couldn't go below 0 HP? How much fun is a game that has been watered down so much that there is no challenge in it? Humans are born with the desire to make things easier on themselves, but if things get too easy for us, we languish.

Get rid of Echoes of Power. Do it for the children.

[goodspeed]

what are u talking about a challenge? What challenge did it take away? Running on 0 sp? Oh wait lets just hit i, ah their's those mana potions. Pop, woo baby, another 300 mana. Turbine walks in: Introducing 50% off all sp potions!!!
And they made the sla's which use the 12 sp longer. So you want to take that away but you want to cast them faster? Now see that seems alot easier.

You know what, this is a great solution. Oy turbine I got a challenge for ya. I would like a clicky in the gameplay options menu. Or in the characters menu whichever. Now this clicky will turn on and off the 12 sp, you can even throw something else in their with it. Here's the neat part though, we route that through to somthing on the char bio to show who is really hardcore and not using it. And it would show the last 20 days or so.

We can call them the echoless hahaha

[fluffybunnywilson]

what are u talking about a challenge? What challenge did it take away? Running on 0 sp? Oh wait lets just hit i, ah their's those mana potions. Pop, woo baby, another 300 mana. Turbine walks in: Introducing 50% off all sp potions!!!
And they made the sla's which use the 12 sp longer. So you want to take that away but you want to cast them faster? Now see that seems alot easier.

Never bought a mana pot from the store and I never will. I think that those things are even worse than the Echoes of Power.

Also, I'd be okay with leaving the SLAs as they are now. I just want Echoes of Power gone.

[Maelodic]

/signed

Though, as an evocation archmage I honestly haven't seen much of a difference, the only time I've ever actually used EoP as a crutch was when I thought a new quest's boss was the last one so I filled the room with maxamized Ice Storms only to find out that we still had half a quest left.

That being said, I honestly just spam SLAs 80% of the time. Magic Missile/Chain Missiles/Arcane Bolt all being constantly spammed and used to their full potential easily outdamages most people I have in my party and I usually wipe up in kill counts, the bigger part of my spell points usually goes to me buffing the party, which I figure adds quite a bit of dps, and saves people from dying quite often as well. I'm a dragonmarked halfling, so I heal as well. Screw them bards. I don't have Cyconic Blast or Arcane Blast as an SLA yet, but I presume once I get those it'll be even easier.

EoP really really is unnecessary, especially when we do actually those SLAs we can just spam till the cows come home. I originally made my caster because I had heard of them, and I wanted to be able to attack without having too much concern for spell points. If I started to get low, just stopped using unnecessary buffs, and made sure Prot from Elements was up. (And jump, huge boost to defence.) If I ran out all the way, I had archivists, which provided me with quite a few more spammable SLAs.

Though honestly, I don't think it's that huge of a deal. People are getting mad over a concept, I would think the developers get the clue. As the store became more and more alluring, the devs started adding more and more unfair advantages like the SP pots, we really should start screaming about those, spell points should NOT be able to regenerate.

The farther we get from the original concept of an incredibly realistic game heavily based on the ideals of pnp dnd, the more chaotic it will be. It's like welfare in the US, it's gonna destroy everything if we stop making people work.

[NostalithilDarkstar]

/sarcasm
please change the cost of arcane bolt to 5 sp and arcane blast 20 sp
also, make echo of power permanent

seriously, i have a tr archmage and i saw eop once, on purpose, just to see it
/signed

[azrael4h]

/sarcasm
please change the cost of arcane bolt to 5 sp and arcane blast 20 sp
also, make echo of power permanent

seriously, i have a tr archmage and i saw eop once, on purpose, just to see it
/signed

Indeed. I've only seen EoP once on my Sorc, and I lack experience as an arcane. I had to turn on Max and empower, and nuke some walls to do it. It adds nothing positive to the game whatsoever. It detracts from the fun factor of the SLAs. A net loss.

[Jacoby]

/agreed & signed

on DDO's impending deathbed

DDO is fading fast. I spent a week away, came back for an hour and was thoroughly bored. Logged.

Time for DDO2... Have you started it yet Turbine?

[parvo]

I've been screaming for five years now the game is too easy. Most of the time, the "normal" player give me hell for it. I find it ironic that Turb is going so far that even "normal" players see the point. In any case...

/signed. And put the spell costs back to what they were. It's ridiculous for a level 4 sorc to have ~110 save or die casts (niac's) between shrines.

[HallowedOne]

I used to think EoP was bad but now while leveling my wizard I find it LOVELY. I didn't have to use a great axe at lower lvls to crush the mobs. Only Burning Hands.

And really, come to think about it, what 12 SP will make you be at higher lvls? Nothing, speaking what first comes out of my mind. Aaaah, you might cure yourself with Repair Light WOunds without any meta's...

I say, High 5 to EoP. Made lower lvl caster lvling funnier.