Please Remove "Echoes of Power"

[Eladiun]

/signed

When I heard the spell system was getting a pass to fix spells and make more of the spells valuable and useful I was excited. Upon seeing the results I am disappointed, it is shoddy and ruins much of what was good with the old system.

[Bladedge]

I see echos of power becoming a hit and down fall of ddo.
First it be up to 12sp
Then it be complete sp regen up to lv 4, with a future update cause the new players like the regen.
Then it be complete sp regen up to lv 8
Then it be complete sp regen up to lv 12.
etc.
etc.

[Crazy_Cat]

/ S I G N E D

[HallowedOne]

/signed

All these cooldown's mess was because of this ability that was totally unecessary to have been created.

[Noelemahc]

I'll be honest. I thought this ability was insignificant to begin with. I never allow myself to even get that low on sp at any time during raids/epics... even on quests after TRing. With all the sp gain items like ring of spell storing, vile blasphemy, mysterious bauble, torc, etc. sp are never an issue. You can also refresh sp now with a spellsinger.

I just don't see why a new ability like this should be made to cater to a very small crowd, and then allow it to affect the abilities used by a larger crowd. Honestly leveling up, even a tr, I was still able to play a caster and kill stuff with my spells without picking up a great axe. The new sp costs already let you spam spells more now than ever. This ability isn't going to change that. While it was a cool idea, I do agree it should be removed.

[Raiderone]

Signed...

[Alexandryte]

So you just want to trade a crutch that cost resources for a free one correct?

Cast firewall with Echoes of Power...get back to me on that.

If you are willing to go through the entire quest running on fumes, be my guest. I just don't agree with forcing SP users to chug potions to brute force a dungeon. Nor do I agree with the community that this is an ok (and expected) thing to do.

Most multi target spells of any noteworthy damage are above 12 sp. Only single target nukes, minor heals and repairs and the most base of buffs....and SLAs for those classes that qualify, can be used. You can do some very minor debuffing. And thats it. Keep in mind that you will have to deactivate all metas for non SLA abilities as the costs easily put them over the 12 sp thresh-hold.

If you play smart...you still can pull some weight on a team and help everyone reach that rest shrine just a little ways away.
If you play foolishly you will still die.


So...I stand by my previous statement.

/NOT signed for the removal of Echoes of Power several times over

[knightgf]

Echoes of Power is just a ability to regenerate up to 12 SP if you happen to fall below that threshold value. Keep in mind of these things:

• It doesn't regenerate 12 SP instantly, it only regenerates 4 SP every 6 seconds.
• You can't cast every spell even if you had 11 SP, got 4 SP and had a total of 15 SP.
• You can still die with this kind of SP regeneration.
• Only characters with the "Magical Training" feat(Not to be confused with mental toughness) can have this ability. That means bards, paladins and rangers cannot benefit from this ability.
• You can still benefit in a party if you happen to fall below 12 SP, although at a greatly reduced rate, just how a character exhausted of strength can still fight but not as great.
• It is still WAY better in every way to have more than 12 SP rather than just relying on this ability.

I definitely don't see this as being under or overpowered. Sure, it may not make much sense(Couldn't it be 10% SP instead of just 12 SP?) but it works and is reasonably balanced. I say keep it in.

[Diib]

/signed

[Arctigis]

Echoes of Power is just a ability to regenerate up to 12 SP if you happen to fall below that threshold value. Keep in mind of these things:

• It doesn't regenerate 12 SP instantly, it only regenerates 4 SP every 6 seconds.
• You can't cast every spell even if you had 11 SP, got 4 SP and had a total of 15 SP.
• You can still die with this kind of SP regeneration.
• Only characters with the "Magical Training" feat(Not to be confused with mental toughness) can have this ability. That means bards, paladins and rangers cannot benefit from this ability.
• You can still benefit in a party if you happen to fall below 12 SP, although at a greatly reduced rate, just how a character exhausted of strength can still fight but not as great.
• It is still WAY better in every way to have more than 12 SP rather than just relying on this ability.

I definitely don't see this as being under or overpowered. Sure, it may not make much sense(Couldn't it be 10% SP instead of just 12 SP?) but it works and is reasonably balanced. I say keep it in.

The problem is not what it does, it's what they've perceived they needed to change to balance it. Namely,
costs and cooldowns going up on SLAs. People are angry because they didn't want echoes of power and
are being nerfed because of it.

[jackabat]

On the test server, I found being able to use acid arrow / burning hands every few seconds while out of mana a lot more fun that zapping eternal wands or staring angrily at the ogre trying to kill me. Seems like it would make low level content more bearable for casters, frankly.

Playing in pugs, casters run out of mana constantly. Sometimes that caster is me! Echoes allows that caster to still contribute in a casterly way, while still greatly decreasing their power to punish them for running out of resources.

[Nuckoholic]

Cast firewall with Echoes of Power...get back to me on that.

If you are willing to go through the entire quest running on fumes, be my guest. I just don't agree with forcing SP users to chug potions to brute force a dungeon. Nor do I agree with the community that this is an ok (and expected) thing to do.

Most multi target spells of any noteworthy damage are above 12 sp. Only single target nukes, minor heals and repairs and the most base of buffs....and SLAs for those classes that qualify, can be used. You can do some very minor debuffing. And thats it. Keep in mind that you will have to deactivate all metas for non SLA abilities as the costs easily put them over the 12 sp thresh-hold.

If you play smart...you still can pull some weight on a team and help everyone reach that rest shrine just a little ways away.
If you play foolishly you will still die.


So...I stand by my previous statement.

/NOT signed for the removal of Echoes of Power several times over

Can you tell me how you can cast a 25 base SP cost firewall with echoes of power (which, incidentally, only puts you up back to 12 SP max)? The only spells you'll be likely to use are non meta'd low level buffs or the SLAs.

I don't know if it's just me, but I can tell you what the playstyle of my sorc is not going to be. He is not going to be the type of caster that blows his whole bar as fast as he can, and then waits every 12 seconds to get 12 SP back so he can reap the rewards of SLA spells and 10 SP haste.

If you play smart, you will not need to use SP pots. Honestly, if you are soloing on a caster on almost any non-epic quest, you will easily get through the whole quest while having SP over (in fact on my sorc I can complete most quests without even shrining). For epic quests in the current state of the game, they are way too easy because of mass hold, and there should be absolutely no reason to use SP pots. You can solo them too.

[falcon2030]

... Sure, it may not make much sense(Couldn't it be 10% SP instead of just 12 SP?) but it works and is reasonably balanced. I say keep it in.

This is the problem with it. It will start as 12 sp till everyone gets used to it then it will get an increase to 50 sp, then to 300sp, untill all the challenge of resource management is gone and "you just have to sit around an wait till the blue bar is full then we can complete this dungeon."

I don't like playing WOW and never will that is why I play DDO but as this becomes more like WOW (and other MMO's) I guess I will just take my subscription money elsewhere.

[Trillea]

Echoes of Power is just a ability to regenerate up to 12 SP if you happen to fall below that threshold value. Keep in mind of these things:

• It doesn't regenerate 12 SP instantly, it only regenerates 4 SP every 6 seconds.
• You can't cast every spell even if you had 11 SP, got 4 SP and had a total of 15 SP.
• You can still die with this kind of SP regeneration.
• Only characters with the "Magical Training" feat(Not to be confused with mental toughness) can have this ability. That means bards, paladins and rangers cannot benefit from this ability.
• You can still benefit in a party if you happen to fall below 12 SP, although at a greatly reduced rate, just how a character exhausted of strength can still fight but not as great.
• It is still WAY better in every way to have more than 12 SP rather than just relying on this ability.

I definitely don't see this as being under or overpowered. Sure, it may not make much sense(Couldn't it be 10% SP instead of just 12 SP?) but it works and is reasonably balanced. I say keep it in.

**** no!

Spell points SHOULD NOT regen at all. 10%? A level 20 sorc will easily have 2600 or more (sometimes much more) SP. 10% of that would be 260. A constant regen to 12 SP is causing multiple nerfs across the board (if the Devs are to be believed) - imagine what would happen if we could cast multiple castings of our most powerful spells just through regenerated spell points.

Learn to manage your spellpoints and get rid of any and all automatic regen.

[protokon]

get rid of regen. spell point conservation is almost the only challenge left in the game to playing a non-melee character.

/signed.

[Xaxx]

/signed

remove this stuff and return the slas to us.

[redspecter23]

/signed

I had no problem with this ability being added until it started to effect other things in the game, namely Archmage SLA's. You can't fix a problem by breaking other things until your problem isn't an issue anymore. You have to focus on the root of the issue. If Echoes doesn't work well with other aspects of the game, methinks you might want to take a look at Echoes first before tinkering with stuff that ain't broke. In this case why add Echoes if it will have a negative impact. I'm just not seeing the logic in it.

[Alexandryte]

The problem is not what it does, it's what they've perceived they needed to change to balance it. Namely,
costs and cooldowns going up on SLAs. People are angry because they didn't want echoes of power and
are being nerfed because of it.

So.....basically what you are saying is....you only want the parts that increase player power....and to just ignore the rest.

Balance be damned?

Cooldowns are on INSTANT DEATH ABILITIES and SUPER LOW COST ABILITIES AFFECTED BY META-MAGICS.

You don't see a problem with high damage/death abilities having no cooldown? Or super cheap powerful abilities that can be cast until the sun goes down not having a (reasonable) cooldown?

For both cases: Why bring melee along? You can just nuke/instakill the **** outta things faster than a Barb can.
Why bother using other spells if you have 1) spells (plural) that instantly kill and 2) super SP efficient high damage spells?

You aren't being nerfed because of EoP....your abilities are being adjusted because they were out of line. When a caster only uses at max 6-7 direct damage spells (and that was highballing it considerably) out of a potential 32-45 spell slots there is a problem. When instant death abilities reign supreme on non-red-named or lower, is it really a choice to slot them?

[Entelech]

/signed.

The amount of weird gyrations, sweeping nerfs, and general foolishness Echoes of Power requires to balance it should be telling you that Echoes of Power was a BAD IDEA, not that additional sweeping changes are required.

Being "out of gas" is part of being a caster, and it teaches you resource management.

You know, resource management? One of the core themes of the game? Yes, THAT resource management.

[Trillea]

You aren't being nerfed because of EoP....your abilities are being adjusted because they were out of line. When a caster only uses at max 6-7 direct damage spells (and that was highballing it considerably) out of a potential 32-45 spell slots there is a problem. When instant death abilities reign supreme on non-red-named or lower, is it really a choice to slot them?

Eladrin specifically said that the archmage SLAs were changed due to EoP so your argument holds NO water. And as for only using 6-7 spells out of a list, no matter what the list is the playerbase will use whatever is most effective - they could make a spell that is called Fleeble's Narfling of the Garthok, and if it does better damage than other spells of a comparable level, or has better efficiency, it will be used. My point is whatever is best is what will be used. Whether it is 50% better or 5% better, it will be used.