So can a dev tell me why to play a savant now?

[sigtrent]

Dude audience reaction screenings have changed the complete ending of a film and so much more. They are not all just studio people but critics and random members of the public.
http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/for...php?f=21&p=263

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_screening

That is not collaboration, the test audiences don't make the films or have any decision making power, they are polled for their opinion and then those who create the films make their own creative decisions based on that input.

DDO players have some involvement in shaping the game, but its not in our control, nor is Turbine in any way obligated to do as we say or to answer direct questions because it is not a partnership. They make the game, we choose whether we pay for it. While we have influence, we are not generally collaborators.

[joneb1999]

That is not collaboration, the test audiences don't make the films or have any decision making power, they are polled for their opinion and then those who create the films make their own creative decisions based on that input.

DDO players have some involvement in shaping the game, but its not in our control, nor is Turbine in any way obligated to do as we say or to answer direct questions because it is not a partnership. They make the game, we choose whether we pay for it. While we have influence, we are not generally collaborators.

Its not collaboration per say I must agree. Its influence and it can be just as effective. The studios know their movies rely on box office and this game relies on the paying audience too. Both rely on satisfaction and good pr. DDO is only in business as Turbine have a product that brings in good revenue and to maintain that source of revenue, ie the customer, they need to please us.

Thats why for instance they need to balance the game well not to overpower any factor. The problem I see is their decision making people cant do things moderately. They allow something to go too far one way then instead go too far the other. Sometimes they implement things without the best of thought either like introducing a sorc pre which balances magical power itself on an knife edge with opposing elemental spheres that both empower and depower whilst at the exact same time they nerf important relevant spells and magic mechanics which makes the balance more fragile, or unbalanced even.

That is bad management.

Lets hope in this case they can strike a balance that makes the sorceror a good alternative to a wizard in U9 when it goes live.

[shad0wguns]

come on guys this is a good update they r giving us a whole new crafting system so we hav use for all the junk also if i remeber they r lower the hp and saves of all the epic mobs and they can be deathspelled. So stop looking at the one negative thing that honestly isnt that bad it was overpowered before most people could hav figured it would be changed but they still might not be done. so u lose ice if u take fre or vice versa so wat its called being adaptable to a new situation also every 3 days if u dont like your savant switch it they all require the same feats.

[PopeJual]

come on guys this is a good update they r giving us a whole new crafting system so we hav use for all the junk also if i remeber they r lower the hp and saves of all the epic mobs and they can be deathspelled. So stop looking at the one negative thing that honestly isnt that bad it was overpowered before most people could hav figured it would be changed but they still might not be done. so u lose ice if u take fre or vice versa so wat its called being adaptable to a new situation also every 3 days if u dont like your savant switch it they all require the same feats.

They r lower the hp of all the epic mobs, but they r higher the saves of all epic mobs.

[shad0wguns]

They r lower the hp of all the epic mobs, but they r higher the saves of all epic mobs.

nevermind my mistake i misread it they r raising saves but still lowering their hp

[Jaid314]

come on guys this is a good update they r giving us a whole new crafting system so we hav use for all the junk also if i remeber they r lower the hp and saves of all the epic mobs and they can be deathspelled. So stop looking at the one negative thing that honestly isnt that bad it was overpowered before most people could hav figured it would be changed but they still might not be done. so u lose ice if u take fre or vice versa so wat its called being adaptable to a new situation also every 3 days if u dont like your savant switch it they all require the same feats.

my feelings towards elemental savant are not in any way based on my feelings towards crafting. i suspect the same can be said for most others; as the two are not directly related and only loosely (at best) indirectly related, there simply isn't much of a reason to allow my feelings for the one to affect the other.

and it isn't a simple matter of changing enhancements. if i'm a fire savant, i will have lots of fire spells and maybe a couple of air or earth spells. if i respec to any other savant, i will no longer have an appropriate spell setup for my character, and could easily end up taking weeks or even potentially months to get to the spell selection i would like, barring a use of the new potion for spell changes that is coming up.

but seriously, i'm baffled why you would think that my opinion of savants should be based on my opinion of U9 crafting... and i've already taken into account the epic changes. those epic changes favor:

1) those who can do reliable high damage over the long term to trash (ie those who are currently on live defined as DPS)
2) those who have extremely high saves on their spells (ie mostly CC-spec wizards and a small group of CC-spec sorcerers who have multiple past lives)

[spyderwolf]

and the vast majority of that has nothing to do with being a savant, since savant has nothing whatsoever to do with save DCs on mass hold, phantasmal killer, web (well, ok, the prereq feat could be used to get a better web), etc. as for the ball lightning/chain lightning/electric loop combo, with the cost of that i have my doubts of being able to sustain it for a long time. if you don't at least match what the melees are doing, you're going to find that the melees will be much better at killing enemies than you are, and that the damage you're doing is essentially less than bringing along another melee (or a bard). if you're doing more damage than the melees, you have no stamina, and can only last long enough to do quests that have a shrine every few minutes.

my savant was able to easily solo all the epics i tested it in. with no melees. without running out of sp.

having a savant didnt in any way gimp my sorc. i adjusted tactics to take into account new spell selections and was able to more effectively nuke epics than live . you saying you arent doing the damage a melee is doing or are running out of mana too easily makes me really question whether youve even tested the savants at all. ive tested all 4. all 4 can do epics just fine . i rate the savants as 1 fire or air( both can nuke the majority or epics great) 2 cold( shines on single targets, falls alittle back of fire , lightning for aoe imo) 3 acid(a viable option but i liked it better before the re-balancing they hit it with)


as to why i put in the other spells not savant related, most of the negative posts about savants thus far have complained that sorcs can no longer run epics because of dc changes. if people actually tested stuff themselves rather than seeing something posted and then jumping on it with no verification of their own then alto of those posts wouldnt even be on the forums. cause sorcs can in fact get their dc where it needs to be to land. my sorc is a 32 point build so theres not even the excuse of wizard past lives helping the spell pen checks. a sorc can pass spell pen and can hit the required dcs.

for those complaining about amrath questing and savants, dont. amrath is meaningless. outside of tod , those quests mean nothing. and in tod is a snooze fest as it is. Epics are end game and very little is immune to elements.

outside of chains and spies in the house , you can dps pretty well on a caster with the new changes.

[Jaid314]

my savant was able to easily solo all the epics i tested it in. with no melees. without running out of sp.

which ones would those be? it makes rather a large difference.

as to why i put in the other spells not savant related, most of the negative posts about savants thus far have complained that sorcs can no longer run epics because of dc changes. if people actually tested stuff themselves rather than seeing something posted and then jumping on it with no verification of their own then alto of those posts wouldnt even be on the forums.

again, which epics? i can CC in epic carnival on live with my freshly-capped, ungeared spellsinger bard's DC 33 hold person spell, and the same on stuff i can beat SR for (ie not drow) in sentinels. that doesn't mean i would want to bring a DC 33 caster into anything serious (or the U9 equivalent, a DC 37 caster, since saves are going up by 4). as i've said, my DC 38 casters are only borderline useful in several epics *right now*. add +4 to their saves, and it's not gonna be pretty. sure, i'll be able to do 'epics', if by that you mean the epics that are so easy even the gimpest characters can do them. but i'd like to know that i'm going to be able to go into epic chrono and not watch my CC fail consistently. i'm not worried about my CC failing in epic partycrashers or epic big top, because those epic quests are frankly a joke anyways.

for once, amrath is actually pretty much the *perfect* place to test for comparison, because adding +4 to the mob's saves is exactly what will be happening. if you have a hard time getting your CC to land in amrath, expect your life to suck if you try to do the same in epics. so *do* worry about it if you have a hard time landing CC in shavarath... (and if, by some chance, you really are landing stuff consistently on the challenging epics, then it sounds rather like they haven't actually decreased the minion debuff, they just think they have)

[spyderwolf]

which ones would those be? it makes rather a large difference.



again, which epics? i can CC in epic carnival on live with my freshly-capped, ungeared spellsinger bard's DC 33 hold person spell, and the same on stuff i can beat SR for (ie not drow) in sentinels. that doesn't mean i would want to bring a DC 33 caster into anything serious (or the U9 equivalent, a DC 37 caster, since saves are going up by 4). as i've said, my DC 38 casters are only borderline useful in several epics *right now*. add +4 to their saves, and it's not gonna be pretty. sure, i'll be able to do 'epics', if by that you mean the epics that are so easy even the gimpest characters can do them. but i'd like to know that i'm going to be able to go into epic chrono and not watch my CC fail consistently. i'm not worried about my CC failing in epic partycrashers or epic big top, because those epic quests are frankly a joke anyways.

for once, amrath is actually pretty much the *perfect* place to test for comparison, because adding +4 to the mob's saves is exactly what will be happening. if you have a hard time getting your CC to land in amrath, expect your life to suck if you try to do the same in epics. so *do* worry about it if you have a hard time landing CC in shavarath... (and if, by some chance, you really are landing stuff consistently on the challenging epics, then it sounds rather like they haven't actually decreased the minion debuff, they just think they have)

von 1, claw , and chrono itself are the epics ive mainly been testing in. landing majority of time at 38 dc.

[Malky]

von 1, claw , and chrono itself are the epics ive mainly been testing in. landing majority of time at 38 dc.

Pretty much nothing changed in chrono, most mobs never had the minion debuff there. VoN1 & claw are 'valid' tests tho.

[Jaid314]

von 1, claw , and chrono itself are the epics ive mainly been testing in. landing majority of time at 38 dc.

then it sounds suspiciously like they have failed to actually put in the minion changes they said they were. claw i've never tested DC on epic (usually do stealthy way when i do it, or just perch and FW), von1 i've mostly done with no DC spells used (but i know in VoN 2 i had a bit of a hard time landing on certain targets, and the time i tried mass hold in VoN1 i was borderline effective mass holding trash apart from shamans who are red-name iirc and that was probably at DC 37; it usually landed, but it seldom lasted more than 5 seconds or so).

so i'm guessing there's something a bit screwy going on. still, apart from chrono (which i'm just a bit doubtful you actually soloed to completion), none of those are particularly challenging epics.

[spyderwolf]

then it sounds suspiciously like they have failed to actually put in the minion changes they said they were. claw i've never tested DC on epic (usually do stealthy way when i do it, or just perch and FW), von1 i've mostly done with no DC spells used (but i know in VoN 2 i had a bit of a hard time landing on certain targets, and the time i tried mass hold in VoN1 i was borderline effective mass holding trash apart from shamans who are red-name iirc and that was probably at DC 37; it usually landed, but it seldom lasted more than 5 seconds or so).

so i'm guessing there's something a bit screwy going on. still, apart from chrono (which i'm just a bit doubtful you actually soloed to completion), none of those are particularly challenging epics.

it does seem like they raised the dcs slightly. on live right now if your around 34-36 your good to go. im landing pretty fair wit ha 38. tomorrow night after work ill drop my dcs back down to 35~ and see how that works out. if i can see a difference then maybe they did raise it 3-5~. im finding web to be the most effective crowd control in all honesty. the mobs die so fast you dont really need to mass hold or disco ball at all.

as far as challenging epics go, there arent any. the only half way challenging epics are chains and spies in the house, and those are only challenging because of the lack of shrines forcing you to conserve resources more than any other epics, not becasue they are any more difficult than the rest. everythign else is already a cakewalk on the live servers.

[Spisey]

Heh, based on what I have read so far about savants, I am glad I left the game when I did to save myself most certain disappointment.