spell components - are they really needed?

[JerseyFresh609]

/Signed

Components are just a waste of the player's time. The cost is negligible even on pricier components such as stoneskin and death pact. Any high level player can cast these at will without noticing much of a dent in there cash supply. Removing them completely would have little to no effect on the game and would make everyone's lives easier. We shouldn't have to run around doing "errands" or "chores" in a game, like stocking up on spell components, food, drink or even ammo that add nothing to the game but annoyance. I have to run errands and chores in real life and they aren't fun. I play games to have fun and get away from that. I don't like anything that feels like a chore, such as repairing. It's cost is also negligible, all it does is add an extra time I have to spend while selling. Travel can also be a pain. The airship was a huge leap forward here. Who care's if it's "too easy" to be instantly ported to where you're going, is running a long way hard? No, it's pointlessly time consuming. I know some may complain about realism but this isn't real life it's a game. There's a ton of stuff that could be added to be realistic that shouldn't be in any game. Do you want to stop and take a **** midway through a quest? No? Didn't think so. The game should be FUN! I should spend as little as time possible doing near pointless things between questing, looting, crafting, etc. I'm also tired of hearing people say "In PNP yadda yadda". This isn't PNP it's an MMO. I've never played DnD and have no desire too. Yes many mechanics translate well to an MMO but we should be worried about making DDO a better game not worrying about making it true to PnP play. Well I think this officially turned into a rant so I'll stop myself there. Think about it people!

[danotmano1998]

I think the REAL point of having these spell components is to create a platinum sink for casters to spend their money on!!

Yes, while they are a pain to remember and keep stocked, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be in the middle of the dungeon and get that 'Oh crud' moment when the boss is beating on you and you realize you can't cast anymore because you forgot to stock up!

+1 to the bag idea!!! Make it an auto-gather, sell it in 3 sizes just like the other bags available.

[RangerOne]

While I do like the idea of a spell component bag, I cannot agree with dropping spell components altogether.

The game deviates from its roots, but at its roots it is a role playing game. You are playing the role of a wizard or cleric. And if as you enter battle you find you do not have your spell components, well then, your character has made a mistake with their resources. Hope you survive and head to the vendor when it is done.

Agreed, they are a pain, but I'd rather not see another piece of D%D stripped from the game. Here's a solution: only cast spells that do not require components. What does that leave us with?

[Alabore]

To
me, the simplest solution would be to have one generic spell component for each class, rather than one for each spell level.

^^^
I am inclined to agree with this.
While spell components mechanics are part of the DnD experience, many incarnations of the game, be it pnp or c-rpg, waived them in favour of a more streamlined approach.
Gold-box, Baldur's Gate, NWN, none had "itemised" components.
Baldur's Gate forced casters to drop shields - but that's about the extent of it.

...

On one hand spell components have always been an integral part of the game - and players could carefully pick spells by VSM requirements, and be able to rely on arcane support while wielding arms and wearing armour.

On the other one, the current system is awkward - and inventory space is a luxury for most players.

The issue with spell bags is, game code can't recognise components inside containers.
Streamlining system into one item type per class could be a viable workaround.
And keeping extra components for specific spells would stay faithful to DnD rules.

...

Not that I really care for faithfulness to DnD rules - as far as I know, the owners of the DnD license discontinued 3.5; DDO is not 3.5 anymore, anyway.
Asking to be faithful to the letter of the rule, in the current state of the game, does seem to miss the point a bit, to me.

[Gizeh]

Of course, if ingredient bags are introduced in order to save inventory space for casters, we also need "golf bags" for melee characters who need many different weapon sets in order to efficiently deal damage against the various monster types.

[Mathieugh]

Be thankful you don't have a backpack full of Iron Rations.

Oh lord, I just had a flashback to Eye of the Beholder! Thanks, I think! I would love to see a multi level dungeon in homage to that game! I think DDO's engine could do it really cool, too! Not to hijack the thread...

Erm... not signed on the elimination of regs or arrows. I do like the idea of have spell modifying components, however. I think that makes more sense than the existing potions for spell effect boosting.

[Shade]

Yea they did this kinda with there original mmo - asherons call.

So can make sense here too. I think vaguely copying the Asherons call idea could work.
In it, you gave up xtra pack slots to gain foci, which represented schools of magic, and then just had 1 generic component, rather then 100+ complex assortment of components.
Now in that game, pack slots were a big deal since u got like 100+ main inv, and slots were only +20.. So that shouldnt happen here.

But the generic component idea can work.
So instead of 9-13 bag slots gone. We just lose 1.

The generic component should stack to 10,000 tho. And "expensive" spells like stoneskin or deathpact, would use up say 50 components, instead of just 1. lvl6+ regular spells could use 2-3 comps too.

Dont like the bag idea for a few reasons:
-They dont have the tech to let you cast out of bags, and tried it in the past but cuodlnt make it work. (see trap the soul gems)
-Bags are cumbersome, would have to open it perioditcly to verify your component totals, or youd still run out all the same.
-The best bags tends to be DDOSTORE exclusive. I dont want more of that junk.

Generic component is better because it maintains the small platinum cost (and could be kept mostly balanced wih the current costs), the small lvl of inv management needed, but makes it easier, as you can slot them on a hotbar and see how low you get.. (which you can already do with comps, but its hard to waste 10+ hotbar screen slots, where 1 is easy)

other notes:
Some special spells like paladin holy sword should remain as is due to there power.

[knightgf]

I will admit, it can be annoying to carry around spell components, and when choosing a spell, I try not to pick spells with material components, especially for weak spells. But if I do, I try to minimize those types of spells so that my components are not eaten up as fast.

As a compromise though, there is one thing I would like to suggest: If you can't give us component bags, why not increase the stack size of spell components to 10,000 to make up for the inability to code spell component bags? After all, if you increased the size of siberys and khyber dragonshard stack size to 10,000, why not spell components? Or, if you want to approach this problem at a different angle, make the eschew materials feat work with all non-epic components, including components for teleport and stoneskin. That way, this feat has value, but yet a player must still decide whether or not to take it compared to other metamagics. Yes, I understand that there are no 'epic' spells in this game, but if epic levels were to come out later on, I think this feat would be too powerful if it worked with epic components, unless you took a epic feat or abilites to make it work with a few epic spells, but still...

However, the way it is now, the eschew materials feat is much more useful than in the PnP version. I think that if you make eschew work with all non-epic spells, even those with special components such as holy sword, death pact, stoneskin, exc., it will have more value. It's not overpowered if you do it that way since these components are not rare, and can be easily purchased at a vendor store. The purpose of eschew materials is that, with the exception of 'very' special components(Such as maybe, epic components?), you should be able to cast any spell that requires material components without needing any at the cost of more spellpoints. There's nothing too special about bags of granite or large diamonds when it comes to spell component rarity since these can be purchased easily at a vendor like level 1-9 spell components.

[Gkar]

I think the REAL point of having these spell components is to create a platinum sink for casters to spend their money on!!

Yes, while they are a pain to remember and keep stocked, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be in the middle of the dungeon and get that 'Oh crud' moment when the boss is beating on you and you realize you can't cast anymore because you forgot to stock up!

+1 to the bag idea!!! Make it an auto-gather, sell it in 3 sizes just like the other bags available.

They don't cost enough plat to create a plat sink for anyone but a brand new player, and they are the ones that dont need a plat sink

[Nerate_Mireth]

I think the bottom line is the amount of pack space and the "necessity" of having spell components.

First, pack space. You're a caster (sorc/wiz) how many scrolls/wands are you carrying that you don't use in comparison to components? For awhile my caster was carrying around a pack of wands and a pack of scrolls....really? About 8-10 of the wands I used on a semi-regular basis and almost none of the scrolls. Robes/Outfits? Do I really need 9 different robes? Nope. Pots? Heals/Poison/Curse/SP/Disease Pots....don't REALLY need any other. After cleaning all this up...hmmm....I had 2 full packs of stuff that I got rid of....Now I could run a Shroud, Hound AND VoD and not have to sell once. So, clean up the **** you don't use/need on your casters and the pack space is no longer an issue.

The "necessity" of having spell components. This is tough. We can argue back and forth all day long about this with good arguements for and against. Personally I'd rather see them addressing other issues with the game (New Races/Classes/Content/Bug Fixes/Better Character Customization/etc) than wasting what may be 10 mins or 10 hours recoding the game to deal with this "triviality". Personally, I say if you don't want to have to deal with components, don't play a caster type or only pick spells that don't use components. Problem Solved.

The OP said,

I'm sure it's been mentioned but if the developers can't get the spell components to work in bags, then how about we just get rid of spell components all together?

Spell component costs are negliable and it's just a hassle having to keep track of.... nothing like having my sorc, which I play very infrequently, run out components in the middle of a quest.

I do not believe the spell components do anything in this game but be a nuisance to all spell caster. Sure they add flavor but is it worth it?

K.

He starts with if they can't get the bags right then dump all components. To me this suggests he's one of the people who have a problem with pack space.

They're a hassle to keep track of. Plenty of suggestions listed in the thread to keep track of them.

Then asks if the flavor is worth the nuisance. Let's look at a fighter. It's a nusiance to have to switch from GS weapons to vorpals to smiters to disruptors to banishers to slime bashers to....you get my point? Give us fighters 1 weapon that does it all. The need for all the others is a nusiance and what flavor does it add to the game? I have to carry 2 packs of weapons just to be ready for any situation. Hmmm.....sound familiar?

These are just my opinions...neg rep me if you want. IDC. I just see this whole discussion as one of those "My dad can beat the **** out of your dad" discussions. Both sides have good reasons but who is right and who is wrong? Neither.

[muffinlad]

Does Eschew Materials still cost mana? been a while since I looked.

muffinquestions

[donfilibuster]

The bags should all open as tabs on inventory, both on the new and the old UI.
Also if you could collapse the gear panel there's room to see two inventory bags/tabs at once.
That way it lets you view two tabs at once to arrange or move items between slots.
This would also solve the need for search in bags.