Undeath to Death love?

[Aeolwind]

Is Undeath to Death seeing some hit dice love?

[lppmor]

Undeath to Death: The hit dice cap has been removed. Undead in the area of effect must make a will save to negate the effect. The cooldown for wizards, clerics, and favored souls is now 30 seconds, 25 seconds for sorcerers.

[Aeolwind]

****, how did I miss that? Ctrl F Failed me, or my typing one. Thanks!

[TheDearLeader]

I will laugh so hard at the first Sorcerer I see casting this spell.

Then Teleport out, and drop group.

[Shade]

I will laugh so hard at the first Sorcerer I see casting this spell.

Then Teleport out, and drop group.

lol what?

If your doing say orchard content.. Awesome spell to have.

Can always swap it out once your leveld past orchard.

[TheDearLeader]

lol what?

If your doing say orchard content.. Awesome spell to have.

Can always swap it out once your leveld past orchard.

At a 25 Second cooldown? I think not.

If the Wiki is correct, even with the HD cap removed, it will only affect a maximum of 4 undead creatures.

And its a 6th level spell slot. Nah... just nah.

[Aeolwind]

Well, it is now better than turn undead. Not saying much, but lol.

[Shade]

At a 25 Second cooldown? I think not.

If the Wiki is correct, even with the HD cap removed, it will only affect a maximum of 4 undead creatures.

And its a 6th level spell slot. Nah... just nah.

Tell me which lvl6 spell would be superior in its place in orchard.

Long cooldowns dont make spells useless, they make them used less frequently. Yea its capped to 4 kills. So kill 4 things, then kill 40 others with other spells in the next 25 seconds, then kill 4 more things once your timers up.

Or what, have disintegrate and kill 1 thing instead?

lvl6 just doesn't have much in the ways of undead destruction. or other useful stuff period.. Plus at orchard lvl (14/15 you get 2/3 slots, so you can certainly fit it by 15 for a lvl or 2, especially if your a TR with the DCs to make it work well)

[patang01]

Tell me which lvl6 spell would be superior in its place in orchard.

Long cooldowns dont make spells useless, they make them used less frequently. Yea its capped to 4 kills. So kill 4 things, then kill 40 others with other spells in the next 25 seconds, then kill 4 more things once your timers up.

Or what, have disintegrate and kill 1 thing instead?

lvl6 just doesn't have much in the ways of undead destruction. or other useful stuff period.. Plus at orchard lvl (14/15 you get 2/3 slots, so you can certainly fit it by 15 for a lvl or 2, especially if your a TR with the DCs to make it work well)

4 in Orchard per spell? Implosion and BB kills more. Not very useful for divines.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

4 in Orchard per spell? Implosion and BB kills more. Not very useful for divines.

They also have a cooldown you know, especially implosion...

[Truga]

Tell me which lvl6 spell would be superior in its place in orchard.

Long cooldowns dont make spells useless, they make them used less frequently. Yea its capped to 4 kills. So kill 4 things, then kill 40 others with other spells in the next 25 seconds, then kill 4 more things once your timers up.

Or what, have disintegrate and kill 1 thing instead?

lvl6 just doesn't have much in the ways of undead destruction. or other useful stuff period.. Plus at orchard lvl (14/15 you get 2/3 slots, so you can certainly fit it by 15 for a lvl or 2, especially if your a TR with the DCs to make it work well)

Or drop a firewall and kill over 9000 things and carry on. Cooldowns are a sad mechanic, I hope they figure this out quickly and remove them.

Edit: Also I'd much rather have disintegrate as a level 6 spell, since it also works on the golems there.

[Ridag]

Tell me which lvl6 spell would be superior in its place in orchard.

Long cooldowns dont make spells useless, they make them used less frequently. Yea its capped to 4 kills. So kill 4 things, then kill 40 others with other spells in the next 25 seconds, then kill 4 more things once your timers up.

Or what, have disintegrate and kill 1 thing instead?

lvl6 just doesn't have much in the ways of undead destruction. or other useful stuff period.. Plus at orchard lvl (14/15 you get 2/3 slots, so you can certainly fit it by 15 for a lvl or 2, especially if your a TR with the DCs to make it work well)

I have to disagree.

A TR is in Orchard for what, six hours of play time? It is one of the fastest zones to farm xp out of on a sorc. Not worth the 3 day timer to swap it out in the first place.

Disintegrate gives you a an easy option for eliminating Kai-Teng in Litany, as well as Clay Golems in Vol, Flesh Golems in Fleshmakers and the Doomsphere in Ghosts. It is the best choice for level six spells in the Orchard.

Flesh to Stone would also be a solid choice as it is handy for Acolytes in Inferno and will carry on being useful for many more levels without needing to be swapped out.

Even a crappy Wall of Fire will be better for eliminating undead in Orchard over Death to Undeath. Fire Immune Shadows in Vol can be handled with Ball Lightning or Chain Lightning (which also take care of Blackbones) or even Cone of Cold.

HD cap or no, with the cooldown and the 4 mob limit, Undeath to Death is not worth slotting for a Sorcerer.

[redspecter23]

I know this is a discussion about the viability of Death to Undeath for Sorcerers but I think it's important to point out that with the new spell pass there is an indirect buff to wizards due to the longer cooldowns on many spells. Though sorcs can't necessarily afford the spell slot, wizards can pick and choose whatever utility spells suit the situation. Power Word Kill illustrates this point very well. Wizards with extra slots to spare can pick up situational utility spells such as Death to Undeath and put them to much better use than a Sorcerer could. Perhaps this was intended by the devs in order to give wizards the spellcasting options and utility they have been begging for for years.

[fuzzy1guy]

Yeah i can't ever see loading this on a sorc. It would be fairly silly. Especially at lower levels when you have 1.. maybe 2 lvl 6 slots. 12-14.

Even a crappy firewall from an ice savant would be better to use than this spell.

And with the phasing that alot of the undead do.. This spell will miss alot of them anyway. And with a 30 second cooldown. AND a dc check. You're going to be using the firewall or something else anyway. Alot.

Limited slots. Long cooldown. It's still useless for a sorc.

[patang01]

They also have a cooldown you know, especially implosion...

Between BB, firestorm, implosion and other spell this ones seems like a waste

[Shade]

4 in Orchard per spell? Implosion and BB kills more. Not very useful for divines.

lol.. imploison has double the cooldown, and only effects about 4 targets at best too. It's also a lvl8 spell you simply wont have in orchard.

Blade barrier? Sure, but im talking about arcanes here.

Arcanes equivalents like wall of fire are great here too, but not near the insane powerhouse it used to be in the double dmg days, its severely nerfed for undead purposes. Especially on elite orchard, on say a water savant.

For a fire savant, yea probably stick to wall of fire.

[Shade]

Or drop a firewall and kill over 9000 things and carry on. Cooldowns are a sad mechanic, I hope they figure this out quickly and remove them.

Edit: Also I'd much rather have disintegrate as a level 6 spell, since it also works on the golems there.

Theres a common mistake ppl are making with disintegrate.

Sure it used to be the ONLY spell to kill golems.

Unfortunately in U9, thats not even close to true. Nearly all monsters have lost almost all of there immunities/resistances, especiall golems. Tho actually currently on live, claw golems no longer have any elemental immunities, They die rather fast to say a fireball, netting you 4 kills in temple of vol.. Vs 4 disintegrate? ineffecient.

Same goes for cholthuulz.. Previously: Disintegrate ftw. Now: Forget it, just use wal of fire or other elementals, he has no immunities.

I haven't checked the vol shadows, or Kai teng yet.. But I really wouldnt be surpirsed if they lost there fire immunity.

[Ridag]

Theres a common mistake ppl are making with disintegrate.

Sure it used to be the ONLY spell to kill golems.

Unfortunately in U9, thats not even close to true. Nearly all monsters have lost almost all of there immunities/resistances, especiall golems. Tho actually currently on live, claw golems no longer have any elemental immunities, They die rather fast to say a fireball, netting you 4 kills in temple of vol.. Vs 4 disintegrate? ineffecient.

Same goes for cholthuulz.. Previously: Disintegrate ftw. Now: Forget it, just use wal of fire or other elementals, he has no immunities.

I haven't checked the vol shadows, or Kai teng yet.. But I really wouldnt be surpirsed if they lost there fire immunity.

Kai Teng, Vol Shadows and Cholthuulz are all still immune to fire. I've run two arcane TR's though the orchard in the last 14 days/ Golems take elemental damage, but at a extremely low rate, disintegrate one shots them every time.

Even if you do not take disintegrate, it is still not worth slotting Undeath to Death. Chain Lightning, Circle of Death, Flesh to Stone, Otilukes. They are all worth slotting over Undeath to Death, any way you slice it.

[Shade]

Yeah i can't ever see loading this on a sorc. It would be fairly silly. Especially at lower levels when you have 1.. maybe 2 lvl 6 slots. 12-14.

Even a crappy firewall from an ice savant would be better to use than this spell.

You have no idea. Why not go test the spell like I actaully did and not post nonsense based on conjecture. I never missed anything due to phasing, as it seems to kinda linger for a second, then kill whatever is around.

Im actaully not gonna spoill all the details of the spell.. Ill let those smart to trust me as someone who actuall tests things to listne, and those who arent, but at least willing to check it out, to enough test for themselves. As if i do talk about it, it will probably just get nerfed.

Also pretty simple fact if your casting freakin FW on a water savant at such a low lvl, your a real failure as a savant.
lvl12 FW from ice savant is 2d6 + 6 dmg, +2d6 for undead, save for half on first tic.. and theyd have no enhancemetns if they knew what there at. Youd take a week to kill anything. Not to mention the current issue where the save DC would drop down too, due to fact youd not be able to cast lvl4 fw spells as youd be considered a lvl6 caster. Ice storm would be far more effective in most cases.

A TR is in Orchard for what, six hours of play time?

... No. Not even for the most insane of TRs. A quick glance at Mr Cows diaries (whos a pretty **** effecient player) shows him taking about 11 hours thru the 2 lvls he ran almost exclusively orchard.
11 hours for most sane/average players takes several days. Well within the 3 day spell swap timer. And most player will have no chance in hell as leveling as effeciently as someone like him.

And even if it was for you.. Thats just bad advice. You dont offer advice for the top 5% of insane TR elite players that dont need advice on the forum, not if your trying to be at all helpful.

Bottom line:
For every wizard:
Great spell for orchard. Remains pretty solid for the odd undead in higher lvl content.
For non-fire Savant sorcs:
Great spell for the cople lvls u do orcard, or at least a few days less ur so broke u can afford the spell swap to drop it later.
For fire Savant sorcs:
Probably stick to wall of fire and your SLAs to nuke like mad, tho not like theres any lvl6 fire spells, so it certainly wont hurt anything to play with it for fun. (Tho if temple of vol keeps its fire immune shadows, it might be for at least those)

[Shade]

Kai Teng, Vol Shadows and Cholthuulz are all still immune to fire. I've run two arcane TR's though the orchard in the last 14 days/ Golems take elemental damage, but at a extremely low rate, disintegrate one shots them every time.

Even if you do not take disintegrate, it is still not worth slotting Undeath to Death. Chain Lightning, Circle of Death, Flesh to Stone, Otilukes. They are all worth slotting over Undeath to Death, any way you slice it.

1. You can easily load both disintegrate and it. I never said anything about not taking it. But no, if your any good at elemental nuking, you can and will be killing golems with it faster and more effeciently then using disintegrate. Gather some up and use AOE spells.. almost more effeciient then using expensive single target nukes. No not fire, some have ultra high fire resist, specially flesh golems. But ice works quite well.

2. Your testing is plain wrong. That or you tested on lamannia, and they actaully did the oposite of what the notes said and gave cholthuulz back his fire imunnity. (I acutally tested the other undead beholders in the new quests on lam tho, he has no fire resist either)

Currently on live, Cholthuulz has some very minor fire resitsance, 10-30 from my testing. Zero acid. Didnt test other elements. You can do a search and find a thread where at least 5 other players verify this.

Havent test kai teng or vol shadows. I went to try vol shadow,s but the instance constantly crashed before I could.

"any way you slice it" is just really terrible blanket advice that wont apply to most players.
ottilukes is a plain horrible plain. horrible aoe, poor dmg.. At best maybe a water savant would want it, and he could fit it, along with disintage AND undeath.
Same goes for chain lighting ,poor targeting and not worth using in these quests due to it. Especially not on a non-air savant.
Flesh to stone in the orchard? reroll.