Any plans to add higher-level electric or lightning spells?

[Junts]

Or shall we all embrace our new Water Savant overlords and subscribe to their newsletter?

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, the lack of high level electric spells is a blatant gap.

Here are the spell levels of offensive wizard damage energies:
Fire: 122344789
Cold: 12345568
Acid: 1234456
Elec: 123556
Soni: 148
Forc: 1346
Nega: 12446

This should be an easy thing to fix: Just go right to the D&D 3.5 Books. Secrets of Sarlona, page 129: Stored Lightning Bolt, 20d6 with a 50% chance to double.

[Monkey_Archer]

Like i said in a different thread, my vote is for Greater ball lightning. Coding would be reasonably simple (just recycle flaming sphere) and it would fill in the persistent AOE gap that lightning has.

[quityourjobs]

Or shall we all embrace our new Water Savant overlords and subscribe to their newsletter?

I appreciate your Simpsons-based meme mashup.

Beyond that, I have nothing to add to this discussion.

[Ganak]

So what are you gonna do? Release the dogs?! Or the bees?! Or dogs with bees in their mouth so that when they bark they shoot bees at you?!

[fuzzy1guy]

I'd like to see call lightning storm added to the list.

The spell is done. It's in game already. And it works.

And it would give electric savants an aoe dot. Of which they have none of.

Not sure what level.. about level 7 would be real nice tho.

[Angelus_dead]

Like i said in a different thread, my vote is for Greater ball lightning. Coding would be reasonably simple (just recycle flaming sphere) and it would fill in the persistent AOE gap that lightning has.

1. Homebrew is homebrew.
2. Since Flaming Sphere is a problematic spell, recycling Flaming Sphere at level 9 would also be problematic.

[Junts]

1. Homebrew is homebrew.
2. Since Flaming Sphere is a problematic spell, recycling Flaming Sphere at level 9 would also be problematic.

I'd like to see a persistent aoe and a high-level lightning spell that is either saveless or fort-save based.

Electric is the most vulnerable to evasion of all 4 elemental specializations.

[Angelus_dead]

Like i said in a different thread, my vote is for Greater ball lightning. Coding would be reasonably simple (just recycle flaming sphere) and it would fill in the persistent AOE gap that lightning has.

1. Homebrew is homebrew.
2. Since Flaming Sphere is a problematic spell, recycling Flaming Sphere at level 9 would also be problematic.

Fire: 122344789
Cold: 12345568

As shown there, the problem isn't only that there is no Lightning spell of level 6-9. A related problem is that there is no real damage spell of level 7-9 that's not Fire or Cold. That means that when the boss is fire-immune and you're a savant with -9 cold level, there's not much you can do.

Adding a level 7-9 Lightning spell would be one way to address that second problem, but acid or force might work too. (In fact, I suggest adding Clenched Fist as level 8 force damage, with some serious speed alterations from the D&D source)

[jakeelala]

yeah turbine does a lot of stuff really well, but they leave these huge gaping, forehead slapping holes in places that I just cannot for the life of me understand.

You're releasing prestige classes (like 3 years late) for sorcerers, and the spells available aren't even balanced between the elements, like not even a little bit.

Srsly?

[Junts]

1. Homebrew is homebrew.
2. Since Flaming Sphere is a problematic spell, recycling Flaming Sphere at level 9 would also be problematic.


As shown there, the problem isn't only that there is no Lightning spell of level 6-9. A related problem is that there is no real damage spell of level 7-9 that's not Fire or Cold. That means that when the boss is fire-immune and you're a savant with -9 cold level, there's not much you can do.

Adding a level 7-9 Lightning spell would be one way to address that second problem, but acid or force might work too. (In fact, I suggest adding Clenched Fist as level 8 force damage, with some serious speed alterations from the D&D source)

Remember meteor swarm doesn't care about caster level and now benefits from force enhancements, so it is an alternative, if not a great one.

[Baahb3]

Lightning Ring would be good 8th level spell for Air Savants

I agree that the Bigby's spells would be useful Force spells of higher levels, Clenched Fist could be made into a single target damage spell and Crushing Hand could be a nice single target DoT spell for force users.

[Noelemahc]

I agree there should be more electric spells. I also do believe there should be more acid spells as well. Acid suffers a lack of any actual straight up damage spells the same that electric suffers a lack of any persistent aoe/dot spells (not including Eladar's which is just now being put in).

Acid also suffers from any useful spells above level 4 (Cloudkill is only used on bosses for concealment, and Acid Fog is a lol spell), which makes fighting bosses with a mantle of invulnerability a pain.

Electric only has 2 useful spells at all in Ball Lightning and Chain Lightning. The others are nice as SLAs (Shocking Grasp, Electric Loop) but I wouldn't actually waste spell slots on them. Ball Lightning should be brought in line with Otiluke's Freezing Sphere and Delayed Blast Fireball in capping at 20d6, and Chain Lightning should be brought in line with Polar Ray in capping at 25d6 (it lists no actual dice cap, but I strongly believe it is actually 20d6) in my opinion.

Level 8 spells in general are pretty lacking and need a beef up either way. That would be a great place to start throwing good force, acid, and electric spells.

[Arctigis]

...(it lists no actual dice cap, but I strongly believe it is actually 20d6) in my opinion...

It does indeed currently cap at 20d6 (the +3 dice for AiS III is working here though so yay!) despite not listing
a cap. I've bug reported this.

[voodoogroves]

Don't under-count the new Scorch spell (giving fire 3 at 3rd) or overlook the fact that 6 is chock full of negative spells - let alone necromancy.

[Angelus_dead]

Don't under-count the new Scorch spell (giving fire 3 at 3rd) or overlook the fact that 6 is chock full of negative spells - let alone necromancy.

The two level 2 fire spells are Scorch and Scorching Ray; Flaming Sphere doesn't really count (neither do Fire Trap and Flame Arrows).
The level 6 negative damage spell is Necrotic Ray.

Prismatic Ray and Prismatic Spray could be considered to count for 4 different energies, but as it is also CC/death I didn't include them in that chart.

[Xenus_Paradox]

What Baahb said.

LIGHTNING RING
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Effect: Ring of electricity
Duration: 1 round/2 levels
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes
Your body quakes as a ring of crackling
electricity explodes from your chest to whirl
about you.
The ring of electricity moves with
you and does not interfere with your
spellcasting or attacks, or with others
attacking you. As long as the lightning
ring is in effect, you gain resistance
to electricity 20. At the beginning of
your turn each round, adjacent creatures
take 10d6 points of electricity
damage, or half that with a successful
Reflex save.
In addition, each round as a free
action at the beginning of your turn,
you can direct two lightning bolts that
deal 5d6 points of electricity damage
each, exactly as the lightning bolt spell
(caster level 5th), in any directions
you choose. Each bolt can be aimed
separately. A creature struck by one of
these bolts can make a Reflex save for
half damage. The DC for this save is
calculated for an 8th-level spell, even
though the bolts mimic a 3rd-level
spell.
Material Components: A small glass
ring and a bit of fur from any animal.

[Vanquishedfo]

I know the its PnP talk is not very popular with some, and I am not trying to say well this is how it is in the books.

I have a non D&D D20 book among my collection that had alot of unique classes and prestige classes for arcane casters. one was infact the elemental savant and so similar to what is coming that I feel D&D practically stole this non D&D class for itself.

They also in this same book have some very indepth rule ideas for free form magic( as in casting and even creating unique spells on the fly) and a spell point system( required for use of the free form magic) that breaks down all the various factors of a spell. Including dmg type.

In that chart, fire was the least costly to manifest, as its seen as the most commonly resisted, and able to be brandished without magic via torches, etc. Then cold, then electrical, then acid, and finally force.

It is because of these hidden factors that some spells of some elemental types seem weaker when compared numerically to others. For example fire wall, and the acid cloud spell of the same lvl. Fire wall would by the system broken down, have to be higher base dmg then an acid spell or any other elemental spell for that matter, at the same lvl.

Now I am not saying that is right or wrong exactly, but if one was to look at all mob types in the game and break down what elements where resisted most, it would help show if certain elements need to be buffed or not.

Finally in parting is one very real feat from PnP that makes this whole thing moot. It allows one to change any element type for another when using a spell for a higher spell cost. I think it was elemental substitution.

So if they just gave us that feat, then you would as a lightning wielder, create walls of lightning, lightning ball, lightning hands etc.

[Saravis]

Spell Bla Bla

While that spell looks really cool, it does have one major shortcoming, its ability is redundant with the Air Savant's SLA. They would have to make some adjustments, perhaps make the range of the ring's damage larger.

[LeLoric]

While that spell looks really cool, it does have one major shortcoming, its ability is redundant with the Air Savant's SLA. They would have to make some adjustments, perhaps make the range of the ring's damage larger.

I don't see how this is anywhere near what the sla's require. Sla's take time to activate. This is a persistant aoe around you as well as two auto firing bolts. This would probably be coded as a cross between death aura and the favored soul archon that AOV gets at tier two.