TWF FvS advice

[unknownturok]

The only way to stay pure and have those 6 mandatory feats and be a decent healer is to be human. Otherwise you have to break into splashes to get a better favored weapon(scimitar), which I'm considering TRing my fvs into.
Here's the feat list I have currently:
Human 20 FvS TWF

Toughness
TWF
iTWF
gTWF
PA
Icrit: Slash

Quicken
Maximize

not bad at all

[unbongwah]

Have a look at Superior Soul. If you do decide to go monk 2 / FvS 18 for a more melee-focused build, I would go elf or HE and choose Undying Court instead; scimitars > longswords for DPS.

[unknownturok]

Have a look at Superior Soul. If you do decide to go monk 2 / FvS 18 for a more melee-focused build, I would go elf or HE and choose Undying Court instead; scimitars > longswords for DPS.

thanks and i like human for extra feat

[Thame]

I would be interested to know what the feat breakdown on your pure TWF 20 FvS looks like. The big thing that the 2 monk splash gives you is the two bonus feats - I'm really not sure how to make an effective TWF melee FvS without getting those feats. Esp. since one might consider being elf or helf in order to gain the better DPS option of scimitars; losing the human bonus feat means that the monk martial arts feats become really essential to the build. You require five feats to do TWF melee effectively: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, PA, IC: Slash. You also want Toughness. That's 6 feats gone, leaving only 1-2 for metas on a pure, where the monk splash will have 3-4. (Quicken, Empower Heal, Maximize. Human can go for Empower, Extend or OTWF with the extra bonus.)

(Also, the majority of my characters have evasion, and I've never noticed it being "useless" in high level content.)

The only way to stay pure and have those 6 mandatory feats and be a decent healer is to be human. Otherwise you have to break into splashes to get a better favored weapon(scimitar), which I'm considering TRing my fvs into.
Here's the feat list I have currently:
Human 20 FvS TWF

Toughness
TWF
iTWF
gTWF
PA
Icrit: Slash

Quicken
Maximize

Mine is human built specifically for soloing. So I do get an extra feat

He currently has
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Imp Crit Slash
Kopesh
Quicken

He more melee focused to spell focus, has his greensteel for HP, weapons and con op.
He is more str con cha build, I believe a 14 dex.
So just depends on what you want from your build. I have other toons that are rogue spashed or pure rogue for evasion, only the pure rogue evasion is effective at high levels.
Feats? Yes you get 2 more feats with a monk but again depends on your build. I wanted the 10/dr and when I did the monk splash I only added more toughness feats. Again depends what you want out of toon. The op asked for opinions. Since I did both builds at one point I wanted to give my opinion.

[unknownturok]

Mine is human built specifically for soloing. So I do get an extra feat

He currently has
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Imp Crit Slash
Kopesh
Quicken

He more melee focused to spell focus, has his greensteel for HP, weapons and con op.
He is more str con cha build, I believe a 14 dex.
So just depends on what you want from your build. I have other toons that are rogue spashed or pure rogue for evasion, only the pure rogue evasion is effective at high levels.
Feats? Yes you get 2 more feats with a monk but again depends on your build. I wanted the 10/dr and when I did the monk splash I only added more toughness feats. Again depends what you want out of toon. The op asked for opinions. Since I did both builds at one point I wanted to give my opinion.

i was thinking of doing kopesh but im not sure that be great because i need a feat for the FvS pre

[Thame]

i was thinking of doing kopesh but im not sure that be great because i need a feat for the FvS pre

Understandable. I just through out my 1.5 cents worth on the monk splash. For my build, my feats list worked great. For your build it needs to be different. Doesnt matter as long as you enjoy your toons and have fun.

[unknownturok]

Understandable. I just through out my 1.5 cents worth on the monk splash. For my build, my feats list worked great. For your build it needs to be different. Doesnt matter as long as you enjoy your toons and have fun.

your feats were great just going to change koposh and thanks for helping

[wax_on_wax_off]

Mine is human built specifically for soloing. So I do get an extra feat

He currently has
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Imp Crit Slash
Kopesh
Quicken

He more melee focused to spell focus, has his greensteel for HP, weapons and con op.
He is more str con cha build, I believe a 14 dex.
So just depends on what you want from your build. I have other toons that are rogue spashed or pure rogue for evasion, only the pure rogue evasion is effective at high levels.
Feats? Yes you get 2 more feats with a monk but again depends on your build. I wanted the 10/dr and when I did the monk splash I only added more toughness feats. Again depends what you want out of toon. The op asked for opinions. Since I did both builds at one point I wanted to give my opinion.

This is a fun build if you never group with people. However, in a group context you are making a dps build out of a non-dps class. You won't be able to raid heal and even in regular groups your heals will be lacking. The new PrE is looking really awesome but without maximize and preferably empower as well it won't be worth taking.

Additionally, longswords are absolutely trash for weapons, you will do horrible damage compared to the many other options.

Summary:
Maximize + quicken = good use of PrE (preferably empower too)
longswords = rubbish damage (scimitars, khopesh or handwraps better)
Human = rubbish damage (compared to elf, half-elf and half Orc)
Evasion = really strong considering class levels and unique buffs

Gl

[Matuse]

Yes it does, but Maximize also works, and is more SP efficient, so I'd take that instead. Also, the PRE is for offensive casting, and your wisdom is low, so why would you take it?

The Angel of Vengeance supplies a number of useful abilities to melee characters.

1) The lantern archon adds 20-ish DPS.
2) Monsters in your aura get -2 ac and -2 to their hitrolls
3) If they catch the debuff from hitting you, your Holy weapons will get boosted damage

[unknownturok]

whats so bad about longswords?

[wax_on_wax_off]

whats so bad about longswords?

Terrible DPS when compared with handwraps, scimitars or khopesh.

The reason that they are rubbish is because of the inferior critical profile. They don't critical as often as scimitars or as hard as khopesh. Unarmed is strong for a monk splash because it has such a high rate of attack.

I did some maths a while back and the answer to the question of what was the best DPS for TWF FvS' was handwraps or scimitars as a half-elf or half-orc (I didn't do halfling but that would be ok too). Khopesh was close behind and longsword was way back.

Half-elf is such a strong choice for FvS (or cleric) due to their access to the Holy Aura spell, imo. This makes enemies blind with no save and when you have 3d6 sneak attack from rogue dilettante you can very quickly beat them down. Additionally, they only hit you half as often. This is situational obviously but it is a very common situation (works solo too obviously).

[AtomicMew]

This is a fun build if you never group with people. However, in a group context you are making a dps build out of a non-dps class. You won't be able to raid heal and even in regular groups your heals will be lacking. The new PrE is looking really awesome but without maximize and preferably empower as well it won't be worth taking.

Additionally, longswords are absolutely trash for weapons, you will do horrible damage compared to the many other options.

Summary:
Maximize + quicken = good use of PrE (preferably empower too)
longswords = rubbish damage (scimitars, khopesh or handwraps better)
Human = rubbish damage (compared to elf, half-elf and half Orc)
Evasion = really strong considering class levels and unique buffs

Gl

You missed the part where he said he took khopesh as one of his feats and also the fact that he has one free feat left to take

Anyway, those feats aren't terrible for U8, it's actually pretty good even for non-human. 99% of game content can be healed with heal, mass heal and scrolls. Maximized cures is a loss, but chances are the another healer in the raid will have that covered, so I don't think it's a big deal.

A max DPS half-orc khopesh user FvS 20 would be a fun build IMO.

[unknownturok]

Terrible DPS when compared with handwraps, scimitars or khopesh.

The reason that they are rubbish is because of the inferior critical profile. They don't critical as often as scimitars or as hard as khopesh. Unarmed is strong for a monk splash because it has such a high rate of attack.

I did some maths a while back and the answer to the question of what was the best DPS for TWF FvS' was handwraps or scimitars as a half-elf or half-orc (I didn't do halfling but that would be ok too). Khopesh was close behind and longsword was way back.

Half-elf is such a strong choice for FvS (or cleric) due to their access to the Holy Aura spell, imo. This makes enemies blind with no save and when you have 3d6 sneak attack from rogue dilettante you can very quickly beat them down. Additionally, they only hit you half as often. This is situational obviously but it is a very common situation (works solo too obviously).

i was thinking going helf but i like human because the extra feat and i need alot of feats for this build but i dont reallt want to splash because of the 10dr +2 cha and 2 9th level and 1 8th level spell

[Kyln]

Terrible DPS when compared with handwraps, scimitars or khopesh.

The reason that they are rubbish is because of the inferior critical profile. They don't critical as often as scimitars or as hard as khopesh. Unarmed is strong for a monk splash because it has such a high rate of attack.

I did some maths a while back and the answer to the question of what was the best DPS for TWF FvS' was handwraps or scimitars as a half-elf or half-orc (I didn't do halfling but that would be ok too). Khopesh was close behind and longsword was way back.

Half-elf is such a strong choice for FvS (or cleric) due to their access to the Holy Aura spell, imo. This makes enemies blind with no save and when you have 3d6 sneak attack from rogue dilettante you can very quickly beat them down. Additionally, they only hit you half as often. This is situational obviously but it is a very common situation (works solo too obviously).

I'm pretty new, but doesn't ideal DPS from melee lie somewhere else outside of the FVS? I can see your other arguments in favor of attack rate or chance to critical, but I have a hard time believing the difference in DPS matters so much in the overall context of what other melee DPS builds can put out. Shouldn't the focus be more on debuffing effects of the weapons?

[porq]

You know, another option for a melee fvs is to grab a 2 handed weapon. You wouldn't even need proficiency, since going with 2 weapon fighting is an automatic -2/-2, or -4/-4 without Oversized twf, so you would end up at the same to-hit anyway. Race wouldn't matter as much, though Horc would be ideal for better dps.


Not saying you should go this way OP since you already said you're going with longswords, just throwing another option out there.


On the flipside, sticking with your favored weapon is probably a good idea. Depending how the Divine Avenger PrE turns out, using favored weapons(longswords or other) might be the way to go

Terrible DPS when compared with handwraps, scimitars or khopesh.

The reason that they are rubbish is because of the inferior critical profile. They don't critical as often as scimitars or as hard as khopesh. Unarmed is strong for a monk splash because it has such a high rate of attack.

I did some maths a while back and the answer to the question of what was the best DPS for TWF FvS' was handwraps or scimitars as a half-elf or half-orc (I didn't do halfling but that would be ok too). Khopesh was close behind and longsword was way back.

Half-elf is such a strong choice for FvS (or cleric) due to their access to the Holy Aura spell, imo. This makes enemies blind with no save and when you have 3d6 sneak attack from rogue dilettante you can very quickly beat them down. Additionally, they only hit you half as often. This is situational obviously but it is a very common situation (works solo too obviously).

Right on the money, this coming from a guy that built lit2 longswords on his favored soul. Though the capstone saves some enhancement points and 10dr ain't bad either. lower offense for some defense.

(One minor addition about the unarmed option, offhand attacks are all at full strength bonus too.)


H-Elf with scimitars is exactly what I was going to TR into, and +3d6 sneak attack and holy aura was the justification behind it

[unknownturok]

H-Elf with scimitars is exactly what I was going to TR into, and +3d6 sneak attack and holy aura was the justification behind it

what feats are you going to take?

[der_kluge]

I think the OP is trying to do too much with this build. I made a TWF Elven FvS with the Undying Court line, and took dual scimitars as my speciality. She has tons of scimitars for every situation, and just rocks the damage and the kill count.

Undying Court also gets a free Raise Dead at level SIX which is really, really nice.

Looks like you're trying to go a bit evoker, which is fine, but I would also consider statting it to pick up the new FvS prestige class in U9.

I would definitely stay away from longswords as my weapon choice. It's just not going to provide the massive damage you want.

I'd also consider lowering your charisma a bit. 9th level spells only require a charisma of 19. A +6 item will let you start with a 13 at a minimum. If you can manage a +1 tome, start with a 12 here.

Think about whether you *want* the additional AC from a monk splash or not. It's fine to have it, but it completely changes the persona of the character. My FvS is 5 large ingredients away from goggles of concordont oppositon - an item which will give me hp/sp every time I get hit. I specifically DO NOT want a high AC. Something to consider.

[unknownturok]

im not wanting AC i just did it so that i can get two feats

[unknownturok]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Male
(20 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 220
Spell Points: 1754 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    21
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         4                    24
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  3                     5
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      3                    12

Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Undying Court
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Favored Soul)


Level 3 (Favored Soul)


Level 4 (Favored Soul)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold


Level 11 (Favored Soul)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Favored Soul)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Cold Iron

how is this?

[porq]

H-Elf with scimitars is exactly what I was going to TR into, and +3d6 sneak attack and holy aura was the justification behind it

what feats are you going to take?

It would have to be 18fvs/2monk
For sure, it'll be the 8 feats I listed already, plus another toughness or something. maybe SF umd