12 Sorc / Ranger 2 / Fighter 6 (Helf)

[jakeelala]

Can I have 3 prestige classes? AA, Earth Savant, and Kensai I?

Ok assuming I can get the three classes...I'm thinking of a build using the above breakdown with the idea being:
1. Throw acid curse
2. Throw no save DoTs
3. Hit multishot with Min2 bow
4. Refresh curse and DoTs
5. Melee with dual Min2 scimmys until Multishot timer is up
Repeat

Stats: (34 pt, Half Elf)
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 12



With the fighter and ranger levels, I can:
Max
Empower
Quicken
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
MultiShot
Weapon Focus Ranged (for kensai and AA)
Spell Focus Evoc
Weapon Spec. Ranged
Point Blank Shot

Now, it would be nice to have toughness, and maybe extend, and and also PS/IPS. Sooo...One option would be to abandon Melee and go just ranged/casting. Also, I have a ranger past life so this is particularly attractive.

Or, just go casting/melee.

Any thoughts? This might work with Air Savant to use Lightning 2 weapons as well, I just feel like dumping Cha would be easier on an Earth Savant.

[dormetheus]

It is possible to have multiple PrE's, yes

[Entelech]

Yes, you can, as long as no more than one of them is bound to each of your base classes.

Earth Savant = Sorcerer
Arcane Archer = Ranger
Kensai = Fighter

And, given that you're a Half Elf, you don't even need Ranger levels to qualify for Arcane Archer.

[jakeelala]

yup that's what I figured, just wanted some confirmation.

[erikbozelie]

i wonder if you could slot it into stats.
you need dex for GTWF and manyshot.
charisma so monsters dont save.

strength to damage.
con to survive aggro.

[callforkills]

Can I have 3 prestige classes? AA, Earth Savant, and Kensai I?

Yes but not with this build, prestige classes can be obtained when a class reaches level 6.

Now, it would be nice to have toughness, and maybe extend, and and also PS/IPS. Sooo...One option would be to abandon Melee and go just ranged/casting. Also, I have a ranger past life so this is particularly attractive.

Or, just go casting/melee.

With 2 levels of ranger i dont think you will get a damage with bow that is sufficient to beat you damage
with scimmies. I didn't break down the numbers so i might be incorrect - Therefor i suggest you just stick to meleeing. Also with all that changing weapons... i assume you also want potency/arcane lore weapons when you cast spells, then change to bow and then to melee you will gain much use of the Quick Draw feat.

[jakeelala]

Ok a couple of missed points here:

Re: Prestige classes - The AA prestige class does not come from ranger, that's just for bow strength and rapid shot. AA comes from being a half elf, and the ranger levels are not relevant to that.

Bow damage, will be quite high. The idea is to use a Min 2 bow and multishot against a single target that has been hit with the Earth Savant 2 Acid curse, making it take extra acid damage. Multi-shot with Divine Power up is 4 arrows per shot at end game, with ~30 str should be quite high. Ditto melee damage with scimmys.

Charisma is a dump stat because Acid savant gains access to a number of good damaging acid spells that have no save and no SR. Melfs Acid arrow for instance.

Quickdraw would be a nice feat to play with as I would be switcing weapon sets frequently between bow, scimmys, and lore weapons (though I have a torq for lore, and probably can wear a ToD set for corrosion/potency).

I should have included stats. Original post has been updated to reflect that.

[Darkrok]

Why not 12/6rng/2fig?

You'd get multishot for free. You'd get iTWF for free. You wouldn't be taking weapon specialization (since you don't have 4 fighter). That loses 2 feats from fighter 4/6 but gains you 3 feats meaning you'd have another feat free. If you're willing to drop Quicken then you could pick up PS/IPS. You'd still have two of the three TWF feats if you felt the need for some so-so melee damage. You'd get ram's might to make up for any lost fighter strength (actually I think you net 1 str with the buff up). I think that fits better with what you're trying to accomplish here.

[jakeelala]

Why not 12/6rng/2fig?

You'd get multishot for free. You'd get iTWF for free. You wouldn't be taking weapon specialization (since you don't have 4 fighter). That loses 2 feats from fighter 4/6 but gains you 3 feats meaning you'd have another feat free. If you're willing to drop Quicken then you could pick up PS/IPS. You'd still have two of the three TWF feats if you felt the need for some so-so melee damage. You'd get ram's might to make up for any lost fighter strength (actually I think you net 1 str with the buff up). I think that fits better with what you're trying to accomplish here.

Well if I wanted to skip Kensai 1 and not take weapon spec. 6 Fighter would still net me more feats. I do like being able to cast ram's might, it's a clutch spell for sure. However, this build would be REALLY feat intensive, that's the main priority.

Fighter 6 = 4 bonus feats: twf, itwf, gtwf, multishot
Ranger 6 = 3 bonus feats: TWF, iTWF, Multishot, (and Bow Strength and Rapid Shot but I can't train those and would get them anyway with Ranger 2).

Problem is, even with with the extra fighter feat, I can't fit in IPS/PS, as PS is a requirements for IPS. Oh well. Might be be best to just drop the idea of ranged, and go pally 6 for divine power, divine favor, divine sacrifice, and saves.

[unbongwah]

You forgot to count WS Ranged as one of your feats for ftr 6. While going rgr 6 / ftr 2 gets you the same number of feats ftr 6 / rgr 2, by dropping WS:R you can squeeze in something else like Toughness.

[Darkrok]

You forgot to count WS Ranged as one of your feats for ftr 6. While going rgr 6 / ftr 2 gets you the same number of feats ftr 6 / rgr 2, by dropping WS:R you can squeeze in something else like Toughness.

Exactly. Or drop Quicken as well go go PS/IPS.

[Musouka]

Yeah, seems like you're running into the issue of not enough feats/APs for this build.

[Schmoe]

I see what you're trying to do, but I think it's going to be very difficult to pull it off. You really want the acid curse to boost MinII acid damage and acid spells at the same time. Even so, with a 20 second cooldown on the curse, you're probably not going to stack more than one, and that only nets a 15% bonus on the acid part of MinII damage.

The spellcasting will probably be a little disappointing. Although you can cast acid spells up to 16th level, you're still going to miss out on the sorcerer capstone, so it won't be as effective as you might like. In addition, you'll only have access to up to 6th level spells. That gets you some nice buffs, some nice acid goodies, and wall of fire/ice storm, but you're still missing out on some endgame staples such as Mass Hold, Banishment, FoD, disco-ball, etc. I would say that 6th level grants you self-healing with Reconstruct, but you'll be a helf.

The AA will be nice, because you can get the full line just by being a 20th level helf. I would expect most of your damage to come simply from the AA line and slaying arrows. That said, building all of this is going to take a LOT of enhancement points. Here's an eyeball-minimum:

Kensai I - 11 points
AA (with Slayer Arrows) - 15 points
Savant II - 19 points

So that's 45 points just on PrE (and pre-reqs). You'll probably want to max the acid spell enhancement line, for another 7 points, leaving you only a little wiggle room to fit in things like action boosts, improved metamagic, class stats, and racial enhancements.

When you factor in that you are essentially tying yourself to one weapon category (MinII) because you lack Improved Critical, you'll loose more flexibility and damage potential.

I don't want to leave the impression that it's unworkable, just that there are some shortcomings you should be aware of:

- No improved critical ties you to one weapon
- No toughness
- No IPS limits ranged DPS
- No sorcerer capstone
- No self-healing
- Very tight enhancement requirements
- Low BAB could make hitting a challenge
- Missing end-game spells

That being said, I'd love to hear if you try it and make it work. That would be cool

[jakeelala]

I see what you're trying to do, but I think it's going to be very difficult to pull it off. You really want the acid curse to boost MinII acid damage and acid spells at the same time. Even so, with a 20 second cooldown on the curse, you're probably not going to stack more than one, and that only nets a 15% bonus on the acid part of MinII damage.

The spellcasting will probably be a little disappointing. Although you can cast acid spells up to 16th level, you're still going to miss out on the sorcerer capstone, so it won't be as effective as you might like. In addition, you'll only have access to up to 6th level spells. That gets you some nice buffs, some nice acid goodies, and wall of fire/ice storm, but you're still missing out on some endgame staples such as Mass Hold, Banishment, FoD, disco-ball, etc. I would say that 6th level grants you self-healing with Reconstruct, but you'll be a helf.

The AA will be nice, because you can get the full line just by being a 20th level helf. I would expect most of your damage to come simply from the AA line and slaying arrows. That said, building all of this is going to take a LOT of enhancement points. Here's an eyeball-minimum:

Kensai I - 11 points
AA (with Slayer Arrows) - 15 points
Savant II - 19 points

So that's 45 points just on PrE (and pre-reqs). You'll probably want to max the acid spell enhancement line, for another 7 points, leaving you only a little wiggle room to fit in things like action boosts, improved metamagic, class stats, and racial enhancements.

When you factor in that you are essentially tying yourself to one weapon category (MinII) because you lack Improved Critical, you'll loose more flexibility and damage potential.

I don't want to leave the impression that it's unworkable, just that there are some shortcomings you should be aware of:

- No improved critical ties you to one weapon
- No toughness
- No IPS limits ranged DPS
- No sorcerer capstone
- No self-healing
- Very tight enhancement requirements
- Low BAB could make hitting a challenge
- Missing end-game spells

That being said, I'd love to hear if you try it and make it work. That would be cool

I appreciate your thoughts, this is no easy task. But for a guy who is completely bored out of his mind with this game, that's why I want to try it. Anyone can make a Lvl 20 Barb with a GS greataxe or SoS and swing like an idiot.

If I did go with hybrid ranged/melee, Min2 without Imp Crit actually ties me to the only 2 weapons I would want to be using: Min2 scimmys and a Min 2 bow. There's nowhere else to get that kind of acid damage.

Min2 is good damage on its own, and with Melfs and other Acid DoT's ticking 100-200 damage every couple of seconds ALONG WITH the TWF or Multishot, the damage potential I think is actually quite high. Even if I lose half of the sorc DPS from spells (and I really don't care about CC, that's not the point of the build, FYI), the melee and multishot damage would more than make up for it I think.

I would really prefer to be a WF, but I'm trying to resurrect a never played HELF toon with Min 2 scimmys and couple hearts of wood. I hate to waste larges, so I figured it would be a good toon to try it out on. He's also got a couple random things like AA ToD set, a Torq, etc. Perhaps I'll try this as a HELF and if I like it do another TR for 36 Pts into a WF.

Action points aren't that bad really, after PrE's and Acid line, I would still have 27 to play with, which is not nothing. Divine Power clickies aren't hard to find either (I have a ton already) so BaB isn't really a concern.

There a couple other flavors I'm considering: 6 Pally for saves, divine power, divine favor, healing amp (HoTD), and decent self healing. That would make it an all Melee build of course. Or doing a 16/2/2 split with fighter and monk.

[Schmoe]

Well, I could see damage being decent, considering you'll have the full AA line and Manyshot and can supplement that with some spellcasting and TWF in between. One thing, if you go WF you'll lose the AA. At any rate, it sounds like you've thought it through pretty well, and it seems like a fun concept to try.

[skunk]

Spells,
1st, Acid Spray, jump, nightshield, prot evil
2 Melfs, blur, invisibility, Web
3 acidblast, displacement, haste, rage
4 acidrain, burning blood, stoneskin, Enervation (or PK)
5 cloudkill, prot elements,
6 Acid fog, or GH, or tensors transformation, or disintegrate.

*i tried to stay with your acid theme, with good buffs, and staples you will need, haste, rage*. 6th level has many good spells.

This is just my thought on it. I think Acid is better then lightning, but thats my opinion. Disintergrate would give you a good spell to single target, but you might not want that, as it has a save.

I think you have a good plan going. it sounds fun.