Spell Casters and Crafting

[Vanquishedfo]

For years we have waited for crafting. No few of us, especially hungry for it, have been making one or more spell casters thinking that they would have some import when crafting finally came.

Now I understand from an MMO perspective why they didnt outright exclude non casters from crafting. However I feel abit stiffed as a wizard, who when playing them in PnP are big on the crafting feats, am getting no benefits in crafting.

I think a good way to allow crafting to make a more immediate impact when it goes live, and to properly to represent function of crafting feats in PnP, would be to have each lvl in a caster class to give 5 ranks in crafting lvls of the appropriate type.

Now I think it probably needs abit more fine tuning, but lets say Wizards and Clerics get the 1/5 thing. So clerics and wizards would already have rank 100 in divine and arcane crafting. Bards could maybe get 50 in each at lvl 20, and sorc and FVS 50 respectively at 20.

This is just a rough idea mind you so please feel free to offer suggestions, I just feel our casters who in PnP are the crafters of magical items, should see something of that carry over into DDO

[kernal42]

It is absolutely a good design choice to firmly separate build from crafting ability. There's no reason to change this.

-Kernal

[Kriogen]

You (arcane) do get a bonus. You can solo farm chests/quests faster then any other.

What, you think you can get away from grind in MMOs?

[hityawithastick]

Example:

My pale master knows anatomy. He knows the differences between the heartbeat of a human and that of a troglodyte. He can tell (from taste) the difference between elf blood and dragon blood. With a wave of his finger he can snuff out a living creature, and he can scream a word that will kill everything around him. He has studied dark secrets for the entirety of his elven lifetime, and beyond, when he uncovered the power of lichdom. No trick of necromancy is beyond his understanding.

But he has absolutely no idea how to make a sword.

[Jaid314]

@ OP:

ok, you ask for a way to blow feats on item crafting. because the wizard (and indeed, all casters) didn't get *any* crafting advantages whatsoever without that.

me, i'll just settle for crying myself to sleep with my higher DC spells and my nukes that deal more damage.

[Lyetisha]

1 crafting level per character level is too much. Just after the release of U9 on Lama I suggested a 1:4 ratio of crafter levels to character levels. Wiz20 would get 5 in Arcane, Cleric20s would get 5 in Divine. =)

That would keep those who have multi-classes capable of getting a couple levels of crafting in their "main" class. Considering in a roleplay sense multiclassers are splitting their knowledge into various schools, it would stand to reason they aren't able to get as super detailed in it like a pure class =)

[PopeJual]

The D&D method makes you use up feats for crafting.

I don't think that I'd like to level up a caster just to get the crafting feats to make stuff.

Especially since DDO has XP penalties after you run quests a certain number of times and you need to burn XP to craft. That would mean that eventually, the caster that you make with that system would eventually run out of XP to farm for making items.

Making a character that can only craft is bad enough. Having that caster eventually be "used up" is even worse.

I think that there are some serious problems with the current crafting, but D&D's system really wouldn't fit in an MMO.

[salmag]

Example:

My pale master knows anatomy. He knows the differences between the heartbeat of a human and that of a troglodyte. He can tell (from taste) the difference between elf blood and dragon blood. With a wave of his finger he can snuff out a living creature, and he can scream a word that will kill everything around him. He has studied dark secrets for the entirety of his elven lifetime, and beyond, when he uncovered the power of lichdom. No trick of necromancy is beyond his understanding.

But he has absolutely no idea how to make a sword.

No but he SHOULD know how to ENCHANT a sword and make it magical...

[Shade]

heh, did you even look at the new effects in crafting that were otherwise never availble before?

Wizards are possibly the only class to get a nice boost from this they couldn't otherwise get before.

Specificly Palemaster wizards anyways:

Finger of Death upgraded to 2d6 per lvl (+loaded dice and caps at lvl25)
But its lvl7, and currently no superior nihil 7 clickies exist in the game to boost it. The only sup potentcy VII weapon in the game is no longer available if you didnt get it before.

So yea, craft up your superior nihil 7 clicky, and crush everything with neg energy/necromancy. If it doesnt die from the death effect, the damage would likely kill it.

Sorcs being all about the elementals with no way to boost neg energy, dont get as much. They can make some superior elemental clicky, but we already had the ToD belts for those.. So its just more clickies, not something we didnt have before. (and only for lvl7 spells - pretty much only DBF, which you can already get 6 x3 minute worth of boosting)

[Wurmwood]

Well since GG is gone everything has gone out the window. Heck, just add a 10% crafting experience bonus for Divine/Arcane casters exclusively. Everyone else gets -5%.

[salmag]

Well since GG is gone everything has gone out the window. Heck, just add a 10% crafting experience bonus for Divine/Arcane casters exclusively. Everyone else gets -5%.

I like this idea.

But Crafting Feats are still needed to

Brew Potions
Scribe Scrolls
Make Wands

As a caster, They SHOULD be able to make these things...

Maybe make them available at specific levels

Brew Potions Level 5
Scribe Scrolls Level 10
Make Wands Level 15.

[Lyetisha]

Now that I see this thread, I finally realized that this new crafting system does open up an entirely new game and give a whole new set of players the option to be involved: Crafters.

I can't even begin to tell you the number of hours of enjoyment I've had over the years of MMOing where I was crafting or gathering materials, or literally (in the case of SWG) farming them =D Like, a real farm. No, not farming like killing stuff over and over but just... tending to my machines as they gimme mah stuff! =D

[donfilibuster]

Crafting in altars is a good alternative to crafting in labs.
It is still in line with PnP in which the cost in gold is meant for components and materials.

The crafting feats are different, these feats make you able to craft any item you want without restrictions.
Using the altars you can only craft what the materials would let you.

As for lab crafting, note the background of Stormreach as a venture of the houses don't quite support business.
There's none of the usual city services, no magic shops, no labs, no libraries, and tight control from the 12.
Likewise there's no bank beyond safekeeping, there's simply no business for them in funding third parties.
On the other hand they brought spirit binders, city regen and airships, and now a much needed crafting facility.
The houses just wanted mercenaries to help clear the dangers, but was only natural a need for crafting would grow.

[Vanquishedfo]

I like this idea.

But Crafting Feats are still needed to

Brew Potions
Scribe Scrolls
Make Wands

As a caster, They SHOULD be able to make these things...

Maybe make them available at specific levels

Brew Potions Level 5
Scribe Scrolls Level 10
Make Wands Level 15.

the lack of the ability to scribe scrolls or at least recharge wands found in game has eaten at me for a while.

Id like to be able to scribe any scroll I know as a wizard but with a wiz/sorc only limit on them, so we could then through the AH help other new wizards out but putting out scrolls of rarer spells for them to buy and learn, or use in stacks as needed but maybe with a limit like stacks cap at 10 etc.

This would help get things like DDoor and other handy utility spells back more accessible to sorcerers without burning a slot on it, and let wizards do some much needed expressing of thier arcane scholarly nature.

[Wurmwood]

I like the idea of being able to recharge wands. Say, 100 arcane charges per spell level for arcane wands, and 100 body type charges per divine level. This way people who accumulate crafting components but do not wish to craft can find a use for them, or recharge looted wands and sell back to players (make it not able to be sold to vendor, too many variables/exploits could come of this)

[salmag]

I like the idea of being able to recharge wands. Say, 100 arcane charges per spell level for arcane wands, and 100 body type charges per divine level. This way people who accumulate crafting components but do not wish to craft can find a use for them, or recharge looted wands and sell back to players (make it not able to be sold to vendor, too many variables/exploits could come of this)

Make crafted potions, wands, and scrolls AH only and not vendor-able. This would help the economy as well.

[PsiGuy]

If one was to add something special to casters, perhaps something that doesn't restrict or give 'much' advantage to casters.

I was thinking along the lines of new spells, that allowed them to do the same job as the devices, for breaking out essences and preparing items for crafting. The only advantage being they could do in the field what everyone else has to head off to the crafting hall to do. Actual making of new items, should always be restricted to the hall, but tearing apart found items I can see not requiring a lab.

Obviously they wouldn't have all the helpful "what this will do" stuff built into the devices, they would have to know ahead of time what they were going to get.