Another Wiz melee

[Alkot]

Long time stalker of the forums finally found the create forum account button =D.
I dont enjoy playing spellcaster so when i cap my wiz i plan to TR it to this, i think it will be more to my liking.

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Roubot Fancyman
Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Monk \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 190
Spell Points: 1091 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 12
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    21
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         7                     7
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  7                     9
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         5                     6
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     3
Search                3                     3
Spot                  2                     2
Swim                  7                     9
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)

Not sure if i like insightful reflexes at 15, but i think i will have to live with it.
Planing on min2 khops so dint take ImpCrit.
Not sure if i will get more use out of empower or quicken, might be a feat change once i play with one.
Gear: glacier gloves, glacier bracers, torc, conc op helm, dual min2 khopesh, greenblade, DT docent, Hp cloak.
Open slots: Boots, Goggles, Trinket, belt/rings(not sure what ToD sets to aim for)

Did i miss anything, something to improve upon?

[unbongwah]

If you don't enjoy playing a spellcaster, why would you TR into...another spellcaster?

[yawumpus]

6 ranger has been brutally nerfed. Since you won't want the spells, the only thing it gives you over fighter 6 is the bow action and the favored enemy bonus. This might still be worth it.

From my understanding of melee divines, I would expect INT to be either 18 or more heavily dumped (probably anywhere from 10-14). Note that you should get the "stand in the firewall" damage with 10. Don't expect to be able to kite them through firewalls with dumped int.

The dex and the feats make TWF pretty painful for very little gain. I suspect that you don't have a greensteel two handed weapon. In that case this works fine.

2 Monk with points for wisdom? I suppose there really isn't much hope for AC, but 12/6/2 looks like it should hold out the AC longer.

Are you doing this for completionist? If so, I'd make sure you know what you are doing. This has the smell of a build that fails at end game (if not earlier). If you are worried about that, I'd stick to more shallow splashes that would allow an LR into a more traditional build, so you don't get stuck grinding 1M+ xp at endgame with a poor build. I don't mean to offend by the "smell of fail", just pointing out the risk of less common builds.

[Ilklr]

I mostly agree with the above posters. Also, it should be mentioned that you'll have 11 feats, not 7 (10 if you go tempest). Toughness, TWF, Improved, Greater, PA, and Improved Crit should take care of the melee side. This should still leave you with 5 spellcasting feats. Spell Focus: Necromacny, Greater SF:Necro, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, and Extend Spell?

[DaSawks]

Have you ever heard of a Soupsandwich? No? How about a footballbat? Tenniscleat? Hockeyball? Golfhelmet? I know chocolate and peanut butter go together. Not in this case.

Having a crit firewall without Maximize and empower is no use. Necro and Greater Necro for an "evocation build"? Where do you plan on putting a Superior Potency item? What kind of armor did you plan on wearing? I like the idea of having a PM for self heals. I get that. How about a WF AM?

DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I would love to see a Melee/caster build however most have failed to pull it off. Best of luck.

[Alkot]

I mostly agree with the above posters. Also, it should be mentioned that you'll have 11 feats, not 7 (10 if you go tempest). Toughness, TWF, Improved, Greater, PA, and Improved Crit should take care of the melee side. This should still leave you with 5 spellcasting feats. Spell Focus: Necromacny, Greater SF:Necro, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, and Extend Spell?

i dont think ill need quicken much what could i replace it with?
I like WF for the imunes and repair till undead lvls but is there anything that would help me more(maybe horc?)

[Ilklr]

i dont think ill need quicken much what could i replace it with?
I like WF for the imunes and repair till undead lvls but is there anything that would help me more(maybe horc?)

Probably empower. With U9 PMs getting PM I forms, you'll actually be able to self-heal at 6. Pretty much any of the usual races are viable. Human, WF, Dwarf, Helf. I'd stay away from drow/elves here, and halfling does nothing for you. Intuitively, Horc probably won't work that well, but to be honest, I'm too lazy to think about it right now. Maybe later.

[Alkot]

If i took 2monk first then 18wiz could i LR+1 for Gtwf at 20?

[Bargol]

The thing to remember about arcane casters is that if you multiclass them your DC's for spells will take a hit. That means that the deeper the splash (less then 18 levels) you will not be able to land necro, enchantment, etc spells in vale or beyond. So if your intent on trying a build like this you will want to try and focus on spells that don't have saves. Usually this would lead to evocaton spells, this might change with update 9.

Wizard 18 / Rogue 2 is a popular mix that does work and can give you melee capacity. However unless you really build for melee your damage will be meek at higher levels. I applaud the drive to be innovative in your build, but I strongly suggest you look at some of the published multiclassed arcane builds and be prepared that this kind of build is easier to screw up then get right.

Unfortunately I will say that in all the pugs I have joined at the end of the quest I have yet to see one of these builds and think "wow they just rocked in there"......could be just my experiences and not so much the build.

Good luck its an interesting idea.

[unbongwah]

If i took 2monk first then 18wiz could i LR+1 for Gtwf at 20?

Your BAB would be too low: 1 (monk 2) + 9 (wiz 18) = 10; GTWF requires BAB 11.

[Alkot]

Alright Ive decided on 2monk splash gonna work on the builder and will update when im done

[Therigar]

The thing to remember about arcane casters is that if you multiclass them your DC's for spells will take a hit. That means that the deeper the splash (less then 18 levels) you will not be able to land necro, enchantment, etc spells in vale or beyond.

This is not correct.

DC of spells is determined by the casting stat and not by the caster levels. It is also impacted by the spell level.

Unless you need to use Heighten so the spell is treated as a L9 spell there is no reason why you need extra caster levels. If it is already a L9 spell then extra caster levels are totally immaterial. If you can't make the spell stick the problem is not your caster levels.

Things that affect DC:

Caster stat (INT in this case)
Spell level (use Heighten to raise it to the highest spell level you can use)
Spell focus & greater spell focus
Spell focus item

Note that this is different from Spell Penetration. Spell Penetration does depend on your caster levels.

[Alkot]

Updated first post with char gen and gear

[Ilklr]

This is not correct.

DC of spells is determined by the casting stat and not by the caster levels. It is also impacted by the spell level.

Unless you need to use Heighten so the spell is treated as a L9 spell there is no reason why you need extra caster levels. If it is already a L9 spell then extra caster levels are totally immaterial. If you can't make the spell stick the problem is not your caster levels.

Things that affect DC:

Caster stat (INT in this case)
Spell level (use Heighten to raise it to the highest spell level you can use)
Spell focus & greater spell focus
Spell focus item

Note that this is different from Spell Penetration. Spell Penetration does depend on your caster levels.

I was going to say the same, until I realized that I think he means a dropped DC via heighten. Once you start losing spell levels, heighten becomes less effective. Therefore, you lose DC.

[Therigar]

I was going to say the same, until I realized that I think he means a dropped DC via heighten. Once you start losing spell levels, heighten becomes less effective. Therefore, you lose DC.

If you can't cast L9 spells then you can't use heighten to make the lower spells equivalent to L9. So, that means wizard L17. The post I referred to clearly pushed for L18 spouting something about less than that loses DC.

But, if you can cast L8 spells you are 1 DC behind anyone else on the low level spells -- something that (most of the time) you can make up for by having the right items, higher INT or stacking buffs.

The post I replied to is just bad information.

Figure out what spells you want the build to have and whether you plan to use them on high level/epic content. Look at your INT and gear and figure out what buffs you'll have. Calculate in heighten for the effective spell level.

If you can't hit the DC w/o L9 spell capability there's a good chance you won't hit it with L9 capacity.

[Ilklr]

If you can't cast L9 spells then you can't use heighten to make the lower spells equivalent to L9. So, that means wizard L17. The post I referred to clearly pushed for L18 spouting something about less than that loses DC.

But, if you can cast L8 spells you are 1 DC behind anyone else on the low level spells -- something that (most of the time) you can make up for by having the right items, higher INT or stacking buffs.

The post I replied to is just bad information.

Figure out what spells you want the build to have and whether you plan to use them on high level/epic content. Look at your INT and gear and figure out what buffs you'll have. Calculate in heighten for the effective spell level.

If you can't hit the DC w/o L9 spell capability there's a good chance you won't hit it with L9 capacity.

I mostly agree with what you're saying. I realize that the poster erred; I'm not sure if it was a typo, or just a mistake on his part. However, his advice is still sound. One should be cautious when multiclassing casters, as they will take a penalty to caster level, and possibly DC.

Also, every 1 DC counts. You should always try to keep it as high as possible. You're not going to say "Oh look, I have 40 DC; that's good enough." You're always trying to raise your casting ability score, get better gear, etc. As long as your DC is within the range that a save will not autosucceed or autofail, then every 1 counts. In fact, every lost 1 DC is an additional 5% chance of the target saving. Of course, if you can get your DC high enough that the enemy with the highest save in the game will only save on 20, then 1 DC no longer matters...

...but I digress. In this case, it's a moot point since he has 18 caster levels anyway. He loses 2 to Spell Pen, but no loss to DC.

[Entelech]

This is not correct.

DC of spells is determined by the casting stat and not by the caster levels. It is also impacted by the spell level.

Unless you need to use Heighten so the spell is treated as a L9 spell there is no reason why you need extra caster levels. If it is already a L9 spell then extra caster levels are totally immaterial. If you can't make the spell stick the problem is not your caster levels.

Things that affect DC:

Caster stat (INT in this case)
Spell level (use Heighten to raise it to the highest spell level you can use)
Spell focus & greater spell focus
Spell focus item

Note that this is different from Spell Penetration. Spell Penetration does depend on your caster levels.

Also, in Vale and beyond, especially Amrath, Spell Resistance gets a LOT more common on critters.

You'll either need some way of seriously boosting Spell Penetration (the changes to High Elves look interesting, and Wizard past lives are commonly used, and there are enhancements and feats that every serious caster takes) or you'll want to rely on tactics that bypass SR.

The Spell-like abilities granted to caster PrE's would be a good place to start looking for stuff that ignores enemy Spell Resistance. Also, if you look at the description of the spell in your character sheet, you'll see a line like "Spell Resistance: no" that tells you it bypasses SR. Elemental effects commonly do this.

[Alkot]

Not much feedback on the actual builds or feat order/choice.