options and opinions for a triple fist build

[MrLarone]

what makes a build triple fisted?

being a multiclass of monk, sorcerer and paladin of course! (the symbol for each being that of a hand or fist)

but how best to go about it?

6 monk and sorcerer could get me:

obscuring mist
blur
displacement
shadow form

for 70% miss chance before ac which could possibly be at useful levels with paladin thrown in...

or perhaps 15 sorc 3 monk 2 paladin

2 pal giving char bonus to saves, monk giving healing fist evasion and feats, sorc taking pres to boost an element (not a great caster granted)

or something else entirely...

personally, this would be a 36 pt build to make up for the odd mix...

lastly, this is meant to be fun so please no flaming for me choosing to wonder off the beaten track.

[voodoogroves]

what makes a build triple fisted?

being a multiclass of monk, sorcerer and paladin of course! (the symbol for each being that of a hand or fist)

but how best to go about it?

6 monk and sorcerer could get me:

obscuring mist
blur
displacement
shadow form

for 70% miss chance before ac which could possibly be at useful levels with paladin thrown in...

or perhaps 15 sorc 3 monk 2 paladin

2 pal giving char bonus to saves, monk giving healing fist evasion and feats, sorc taking pres to boost an element (not a great caster granted)

or something else entirely...

personally, this would be a 36 pt build to make up for the odd mix...

lastly, this is meant to be fun so please no flaming for me choosing to wonder off the beaten track.

I'm running a pal 2 / monk 2 / sorc 16 right now; it rocks. I'm also considering the same but with 6 paladin as a hate tank. Both options warforged.

[krisz93]

Those bonuses do not stack at all, only the highest concealment bonus applies. Displacement is the best you can get, but you can get that from any bard/wiz/sorc or scrolls. Ac is only effective if it's as high as needed for the difficulty. If you want a high AC/Miss chance build, take 6 Monk for Ninja Spy I:Shadow Fade (incorporeality).

[MrLarone]

Those bonuses do not stack at all, only the highest concealment bonus applies. Displacement is the best you can get, but you can get that from any bard/wiz/sorc or scrolls. Ac is only effective if it's as high as needed for the difficulty. If you want a high AC/Miss chance build, take 6 Monk for Ninja Spy I:Shadow Fade (incorporeality).

i know blur and displacement don't stack but is that true for the mist as well?

70% was only counting mist, shadow form and displacement iirc it's 62.5% without mist.

and while i could get those from others i find i generally don't when questing (maybe 1/5 quests i'll get a displacment 1/50 they'll keep it up for the whole quest)

@ voodoogroves

could you gimmie an idea of your build, nice to know i'm not alone =)

[krisz93]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308813 for tanking (very effective soloer)

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309362 for DPS (decent, but still flavor)


Btw what is a triple fist?

[Therigar]

Shadow Form is a type of incorporealness.
Blur, displacement and obscuring mist are types of concealment.

IIRC they do not "stack" in the normal sense. Instead, as I understand it, if one fails the other kicks in.

If I have this right, and I may not, what it means is this:

Attack checks to see if it bypasses concealment. No, then attack misses. Yes, then attack checks to see if it bypasses incorporealness. No, then attack misses. Yes, then attack checks to see if it bypasses armor. No, then attack misses. Yes, then attack checks to see if it bypasses DR. No, then attack hits for no damage. Yes, then attack hits for X damage (where X is normal damage minus DR).

If you have displacement for 50% concealment then half the attacks check incorporealness. 75% of those get thru. That means 37.5% of all attacks have a chance to do damage (.5*.75=.375). Note that from a math POV it is irrelevant whether concealment or incorporealness is checked first.

So, as OP notes, this results in a 62.5% miss chance before even looking at AC.

However, I'm not convinced Ninja Spy is the best way to get to this. Wraith form also makes the caster incorporeal and is longer lasting. While that doesn't help this particular build anyone looking to combine the two effects on a single character might do better with that combination.

[MrLarone]

Btw what is a triple fist?

being a multiclass of monk, sorcerer and paladin of course! (the symbol for each being that of a hand or fist)

=)

wizards don't cut it i'm afraid.

[krisz93]

Also, none of the concealment buffs stack as I said (blur,displacement, fog)
Shadow Fade grants incorporeality. These two and Ac checks are made on separate rolls so they do not stack multiplicatively or as added percentages.

[MrLarone]

Shadow Form is a type of incorporealness.
...

If you have displacement for 50% concealment then half the attacks check incorporealness. 75% of those get thru. That means 37.5% of all attacks have a chance to do damage (.5*.75=.375). Note that from a math POV it is irrelevant whether concealment or incorporealness is checked first.

So, as OP notes, this results in a 62.5% miss chance before even looking at AC.

However, I'm not convinced Ninja Spy is the best way to get to this. Wraith form also makes the caster incorporeal and is longer lasting. While that doesn't help this particular build anyone looking to combine the two effects on a single character might do better with that combination.

thanks for the math back up. =) i didn't realise the cloud was concealment too (was thinking as it's an area buff not a personal buff...) so 62.5% miss is correct. AC would be a completely different calculation that would only happen 37.5 of the time. say i can only get AC to avoid 25% of incoming damage that's being hit only 28.125% of the time. i think 25% miss from AC can be improved upon significantly, will need to number crunch though...

what's ninja spy have over wraith?

well it doesn't last as long true, but as long as you have ki (and i will) you can cast it every minute ad-infinitum, saving your SP pool.

also you get invisibility thrown in for free plus some sneak attack.

all that and you get to keep a pulse ;-)