Divine Avenger, hints please?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Originally there was a plan to release both PrE's with U9 but that Divine Avenger had to be put off. Can we get an idea of whether this will be in U11 or if usual structure will be circumvented to see it added in U10. Can we get some hints about what the PrE will include in terms of powers and requirements too?

As it is I'm worried about the real world cost of speccing for one PrE and then respeccing for the other unless that is the intention.

Thanks for your time,
Wowo

Each avenger will focus on its own deity's favored weapon.

The five minute cooldown to mark a target as your sworn enemy resets if they die.

It's basically a mechanic for "you can only have one sworn enemy at a time", with a timed cooldown to take care of situations where a monster doesn't die but becomes unattackable. (Your deity holds a grudge for a couple of minutes - you swore that you would kill the target, and now you're talking to him?!?)

Edit: Quoted Eladrin's later posts for easy viewing

[Eladrin]

This is some of the early work I had done for this one (very subject to change):

Favored Soul Divine Avenger I (Sovereign Host)
Prereqs: Level 6 Favored Soul, Favored by the Sovereign Host, Favored Soul Attack Boost II, Favored Soul Charisma I, and any of the following: Power Attack or Two Weapon Fighting.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: Everything the gods need to say to your enemies can be said with your weapon. When wielding a longsword in your right hand you are treated as if you have a fighter’s base attack bonus. You also gain the ability to swear an oath of enmity against a foe, vowing to destroy them in the name of your deity.

Oath of Enmity
Benefit: You mark an opponent as your chosen foe with a righteous smite. This attack gains twice your Charisma modifier to your attack roll and a damage bonus based on your Favored Soul level. Whether or not the attack hits, for the next five minutes, each time you critically hit your chosen enemy <SOMETHING AWESOME HAPPENS - oath mechanics are still very much in development, and this is just a hint> for a short period of time. (This bonus stacks up to ten times.) Your Oath of Enmity recharges after five minutes, or upon the death of your chosen foe.

Repeat for other deities, replacing "favored by" as appropriate.

Lord of Blades accepts any of the following: Improved Fortification, Power Attack, or Two Handed Fighting.

Silver Flame accepts any of the following: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged, or Zen Archery, and instead of a melee smite as their Oath, gets a ranged attack, and their Oath mechanic was a little bit different (and wasn't working properly at all ).

[Vissarion]

Uh-oh. I reckon we're gonna be seeing a lot of melee WF FVSes with Improved Fort running around.

[weewoo0]

Uh-oh. I reckon we're gonna be seeing a lot of melee WF FVSes with Improved Fort running around.

2 words. power attack.

[Calebro]

Uh-oh. I reckon we're gonna be seeing a lot of melee WF FVSes with Improved Fort running around.

No we won't.
Considering every single WF FvS has PA already, there's no need to gimp yourself like that.

[sirgog]

Uh-oh. I reckon we're gonna be seeing a lot of melee WF FVSes with Improved Fort running around.

/wrists

That feat is awful; as far as I know it's the only one feat someone can take and single-handedly ruin their character with it.

Please remove any encouragement for people to take that feat. Better yet, remove the feat entirely. The first person I ever added to my ignore list was a WF fighter that used that feat and demanded that my (then 8th level) Sorc heal him, and abused me when I (truthfully) said I could not. Given how awesome that feat sounds and how terrible it actually is, it serves as nothing other than a trap for the newbie player.




Still, I really like the effective permanent Divine Power effect, and the stacking Oath effect seems interesting. I'm interested to see that it seems not to support a longsword-and-board combat style, however. Whilst currently that combat style is a clearly suboptimal choice for a FvS, it certainly is the stereotype of the divine caster from pen and paper.


I could imagine something like this as an Oath effect that would support both combat styles:
'Each time you crit your sworn enemy, you gain a 1% chance to double strike against that specific foe. This effect stacks up to ten times. If you are using a shield in your left hand, or have your left hand empty, this double strike chance is increased to 2% per stack.'
That would go with adding Shield Mastery as an alternative prerequisite. However, it has very little effect on monsters under about 3000hp (where you will start to see multiple Longsword crits before they die).

[Seikojin]

Yeah, I think most DA reqs will be Power Attack if they follow the same makeup as the sorc pres (meta wise at least)

[Wizzly_Bear]

Re: improved fort
I like it for early levels to smoothe them out followed by the free feat change once I have access to mod fort.

[Vissarion]

Heh, guys, I think you missed that my comment was pertaining more to inexperienced people selecting Improved Fort as the feat pre-req. Sure, virtually all WF FVSes have PA, but as sirgog aptly points out, Improved Fort is such a bad feat that it should never be encouraged, especially by a PRE.

[stainer]

No we won't.
Considering every single WF FvS has PA already, there's no need to gimp yourself like that.

And most WF builds have THF to boot, which is alternative pre req, I don't think we will see the imp. fort taken often.

[B0ltdrag0n]

And most WF builds have THF to boot, which is alternative pre req, I don't think we will see the imp. fort taken often.

If it is seen once. It is seen too often.

[BananaHat]

I hope you'll consider equality among crit ranges and fighting styles or have the effects be different for the different weapons. An on-crit effect for the two-weapon scimitar user vs. a greatsword or bow user is much more powerful.

On a different note, the attack boost and charisma enhancement prerequisites do not speak to a melee FvS IMO. Ok, well I guess I didn't have any trouble hitting once I got divine power... I'm just not a fan of the FvS action boost lines, even more so if they aren't used as part of the prestige line like kensai or SD. I guess I'll end up blowing AP whether I go AoV or DA on my WF melee FvS.

[Bladedge]

Lord of Blades accepts any of the following: Improved Fortification, Power Attack, or Two Handed Fighting.

Unless Improved Fortification is going to get revised from what it currently does now, I don't see any WF player taking this feat, unless they are new to the game and don't know any better.

[tihocan]

Thanks Eladrin for the hint, this is very much appreciated

And I'm looking forward to the new warforged divine avenger path, featuring Improved Fort for everyone! (should have soloability: very good, so that those who pick it are not tempted to group).

[sirgog]

On a different note, the enhancement prerequisites do not speak to a melee FvS IMO. I guess I'll end up blowing AP whether I go AoV or DA on my WF melee FvS.

Attack Boost is useful from levels 1-12 or so, then weak from 13-19, then situationally OK at 20. I wouldn't spend AP on it if it wasn't a prereq, but if I had to take it, I'd use it occasionally - against Turigulon, epic Lailat, epic Malicia and epic Raiyum at least.

Cha +1 strikes me as a really odd choice for a prereq, given that Charisma does almost nothing for a melee FvS of any type.

[Ertay]

I hope you'll consider equality among crit ranges and fighting styles or have the effects be different for the different weapons. An on-crit effect for the two-weapon scimitar user vs. a greatsword or bow user is much more powerful.

I'd actually like this approach somehow since making it crit dependent would favor scimitar users, who are inferior to warforged fvs in melee as it is now. How bow users fit into that would remain to be seen after a possible ranged combat revamp.

[wax_on_wax_off]

*snip*

I'm so excited right now, how awesomely successful was my request for spoilers? No need for bumpage or anything!

I love the idea of tying the PrE to the specific Deity. My Soul Survivor will obviously love the PrE but importantly it will encourage me not to respec my Soul Survivor and swap empower healing for empower to use with AoV in the next update (unless I can be bothered to respec back to empower healing when DA comes out).

I like the FvS Arcane Archer idea there too. What fun!

[tihocan]

Cha +1 strikes me as a really odd choice for a prereq, given that Charisma does almost nothing for a melee FvS of any type.

Maybe the something awesome will be tied to Cha?

[stainer]

Maybe the something awesome will be tied to Cha?

Access to Paladin Smite evil would be nice.

[Kza]

Omg let all other development halt, add this to game!! plz? :-)