I need some help understanding someones build..

[Boldrin]

Again boldrin check ingame not on my ddo, Adriot is lv20 ranger and has 462hp unbuffed, epic chimeras fangs as main weapons and various other toys.

Btw someone said the epic items from the events != real epic items, if they give the right stats in the right places they are the right items, but they do not and cannot make up for the rest of your set being ****, I do use the ring and gloves on 2 characters I don't on a third.

I do use the trinkets situationally they are okay toys to slot sometimes, the event armour is some of the best armour for defence in the game so I use that on the tempest, however if you don't have your epic items slotted and the rest of your items are cheap ass blindess ward goggles, half finished greensteel and non epic fens items then, yeah I am going to struggle to work out how you can survive.

This was my point ps. ty for the 6 neg reps I got for the thread I love you all too.

All I need is 2 turntables and a microphone and I rock DDO Who needs weapons and armor??

[Boldrin]

Sounds like Boldrin just wants an excuse to show you his.

Player skill makes up for a lot of things, but especially HP. My archer is pretty gimpy at about 370 HP fully buffed, and can get by, and I'm only a mediocre ranger player. My wizard, during her first life, got through the toughest epics before they got nerfed, most of the time without dying, with 280 buffed HP.

well, ya know, I'm a bit of an exhibitionist, lol.

[laeris]

Couldn't agree more.

But a terrible build(30str/32dex) and a good player doesn't change anything. If you cant hit anything then what good are you as a melee? Those stats are good non-epic. Those stats = Power Attack off most of the time(in epics). But I dont ask people why they did what they did with their character. Let them do what they want. I choose to avoid them.

Quiet Fem... this thread must remain gimptoon free...

[NaturalHazard]

Okay I may be stupid be really can someone explain this ranger build to me:

30str 32dex 23con 13int 19wis 10cha

1 life elven tempest, has event epics and a greensteel scim and an event scim

How can this character survive echrono and epic devil assualt more than a few seconds even with a good caster.

SiliconShadow.

lol just did an epic crono with my gimp ranger, afterwards realised I had my haggle helm on instead of my minII helm and I still didnt die for some reason, must of been the awesome healing and CC.

nope didnt have 300 and something hp though, but still no fort? lolz. oh and minus 45 hp as well.

[xSeverinax]

however if you don't have your epic items slotted and the rest of your items are cheap ass blindess ward goggles, half finished greensteel and non epic fens items then, yeah I am going to struggle to work out how you can survive.

My only lvl 20 toon is not decked out in epic gear, I have epic Treasure hunters spyglass, and Epic Cut throat's small blade only. I have so far done Epic DQ2 (my very first epic), Epic Under the Big Top, Epic Von 5 and Von6, so just 4 Epic quests. I survived the Von5 traps - being the only rogue, and disabled them all. I survived the fight with Velah. I survived the end boss in Big Top, no deaths.

[Paleus]

I am a bit confused here, so lets clarify. There is a player on your server that is running epics and the OP thinks they have a suboptimal build. Now, there are two possibilities. 1) The player is being carried through epics by willing people 2) The player is actively contributing to epics in a meaningful way.

Let's assume that it is number 2 (he he). In that case, I would suggest you simply go into an epic with said player and keep an eye on them. Do they ding a lot? Do they have any kills? If they aren't dying and they are contributing kills (doesnt have to be kill leader, might be someone that takes down certain types of threats) then I would suggest that they have some playstyle/approach to the game that serves them well, but is outside your realm of experience. In that case, you might learn something from watching them.

However, the forums are never going to be able to tell you that. We can only speculate here, for instance I think they are either good at aggro management or just doing so little damage that they never get aggro. I can't say for sure. Finding out how they survive is going to be up to you.

[Boldrin]

I am a bit confused here, so lets clarify. There is a player on your server that is running epics and the OP thinks they have a suboptimal build. Now, there are two possibilities. 1) The player is being carried through epics by willing people 2) The player is actively contributing to epics in a meaningful way.

Let's assume that it is number 2 (he he). In that case, I would suggest you simply go into an epic with said player and keep an eye on them. Are they ding a lot? Do they have any kills? If they aren't dying and they are contributing kills (doesnt have to be kill leader, might be someone that takes down certain types of threats) then I would suggest that they have some playstyle/approach to the game that serves them well, but is outside your realm of experience. In that case, you might learn something from watching them.

However, the forums are never going to be able to tell you that. We can only speculate here, for instance I think they are either good at aggro management or just doing so little damage that they never get aggro. I can't say for sure. Finding out how they survive is going to be up to you.

Logic has no place here.... away with you!

[Vyrn]

342 Base HP
20 Ship
20 Rage
20 Madstone
___________
402.

Someone Id really rather not heal in an epic chrono, but it wouldnt be that bad. Also, please tell me you asked the person to make sure myDDO was right. myDDO updated a week ago on Vyrn and its way off.

On a side note, 30 base ref - 34 GH, 38 holy aura (yes, I do throw out unextended ones out in a fight), 40 ship(kobold, dex shrine), 41 haste. I dont really think his ref would be a problem with the basic buffs.

[Dmnqwk]

While the threat was funny to see noone reply to the original post here goes:

1) Evasion
2) Evasion
3) Still Evasion

You mention Devils Assault and EChrono.
Devils Assault - majority of deaths will come from fire ele's getting loose and blowing up those without evasion. Or a loose caster going kerblammo with a "save for half" reflex save spell which is trumped by... EVASION!
Echrono - Most sudden deaths are caused by Flying Abishai whom noone calls out and throw a delayed blast fireball which is trumped by... EVASION! The only time you'd seriously face death through low hp (of which 350 is not that low) is Bloodplate.

HP:
Base Con 14, +2 tome +2 ship +6 item = Con 24
GS HP item: 45
Racial toughness 20
Greater False Life 30
Toughness Feat 22
Total hp: 257 + Whatever you get for being a level 20 something

I fully understand you dont need too many hp, I also understand you may have a different Con due to race. But this is an easily achieveable figure for melee characters. This would put a rogue on a meagre 377 epics (oh noes, disintergrate!) But for those with a Base D8 hd it'd be over 400.
The only reason people wouldn't have this when they begin epics is simple: They want lit 2s to be flashy!

Bad melee crafting lit 2s ahead of your hp item when you're not over 400hp, it's just bad and no healer should be forced to put up with you.

So, to summise:
1) Evasion rocks
2) Under 400hp is dangerous due to disintergrate
3) He survives by making it someone elses job to keep him alive instead of his own. Which is bad for team players.

[SiliconShadow]

Sounds like Boldrin just wants an excuse to show you his.

Player skill makes up for a lot of things, but especially HP. My archer is pretty gimpy at about 370 HP fully buffed, and can get by, and I'm only a mediocre ranger player. My wizard, during her first life, got through the toughest epics before they got nerfed, most of the time without dying, with 280 buffed HP.

Yes but epic chronoscope and epic devils assault aren't ones for someone so, underpowered, for him not to die he would have to stand away from the boss not great for a mellee.

That sort of character, is a liability costing time in resurections.

Now yes epic house of p/k/j/fens for the most part that wouldn't be a problem at all and where he should stay until he has the raid/epic gear to survive more than a couple of hits, as it stands he would be 1 hit from delayed blast fireball in echrono, devils would tear him apart and he would drop like a rock to maggots.

[blametroi]

It wouldn't make you feel superior or tickle your ego, but maybe you could pass on a little bit of advice to players with such low hp or other "noob mistakes".

We did that with a Sorc in a VoD...bad reception but it was funny.

Sometimes players are touchy, and sometimes it's all about the delivery. I've heard some very smart advice given to other players that I thought was done rudely. Not saying you all were rude, just noting that sometimes people need to spend some points on diplomacy.

I sent a mail to someone after checking them out on MYDDO to help with feats and a few weeks later they have another 100hp and are posting lfms.

I'd hate to be a newb these days.

Bravo that, and +1 for good citizenry.

[sheepface]

I've seen worse built rangers that haven't had a thread dedicated to them.

[Kale_Hagan]

The part of this story I want to hear is where the OP had an epic quest/raid wipe because of this suboptimal build.

This much venom can only be attributed to the "gimp" ranger's having caused you a lot of trouble.

That's what happened, right? He caused an eChrono wipe, or an eDA wipe? You're not just picking people out randomly and criticizing builds, right?

Because that would be ridiculous.

[SiliconShadow]

The part of this story I want to hear is where the OP had an epic quest/raid wipe because of this suboptimal build.

This much venom can only be attributed to the "gimp" ranger's having caused you a lot of trouble.

That's what happened, right? He caused an eChrono wipe, or an eDA wipe? You're not just picking people out randomly and criticizing builds, right?

Because that would be ridiculous.

No I was starting an echrono and I said I would be slightly picky but I would give reason as to why I would not accept you, the ranger in question applied and I checked him out asked him how much hp he has knowing the damage from all the attacks in the raid and without improoved evasion and in close quarters his hp was highly inadequate.

I told him sorry I can't accept you as you don't have enough HP for epic raiding at this point try the single quest epics and normal raids until you have the appropiate gear, 4 people accepted this and said thank you for the advice.

Now this individual stated he had done more epics than I would do in the next year and I understand nothing about builds, now basic level 11~15 items coupled with 3 event epic items NOT upgraded a 30 reflex, 42ac, 342 tempest lv20 ranger is lacking 200 hp from a pure would and his stats did not make for good DPS and his items where NOT dr breaking when questioned these where an unfinished minII which would of broken DR in there and an upgraded event scimitar which also meant he has 15% incite, not that his DPS would of been a problem in this case.

However I wasn't mean I wasn't unfriendly, I have been neg repped to the hilt for this thread, but really I know you can do epics with such gear, but be fair to the other 11 people in an epic raid or the other 5 in epic devil assault, such a build is not strong enough.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You were being picky on an echrono? Seriously?

[blametroi]

No I was starting an echrono and I said I would be slightly picky but I would give reason as to why I would not accept you, the ranger in question applied and I checked him out asked him how much hp he has knowing the damage from all the attacks in the raid and without improoved evasion and in close quarters his hp was highly inadequate.

I told him sorry I can't accept you as you don't have enough HP for epic raiding at this point try the single quest epics and normal raids until you have the appropiate gear, 4 people accepted this and said thank you for the advice.

With this addition information I need to +1 you. I know I hate it when my join requests go ignored or are declined without comment. How's anyone supposed to learn what's expected of them if they get no meaningful feedback.

[SiliconShadow]

You were being picky on an echrono? Seriously?

Slightly picky ie have holy weapons and enough to survive an attack, really is that to much to ask?

I don't except everyone to have 450hp with evasion 550hp without have holy+acid, holy+lightning, holy+cold and holy+fire for the end boss, I don't expect everyone to have 600hp dripping with epic items I just want people who won't make us fail, if they would then they get a nudge in the right direction so they can improove themselves as many people will say I have spent millions of plat and hundreds of hours kitting and helping out randoms I meet along my way, as a result I am always poor (Total of 150k plat on all toons :P).

But I'm not a saint, I don't do it for them I do it for me, because I want to get to the end and I want to succeed and I make friends they get good and I know they have the right gear for the job and will be an asset not a hinderance, some people are just to pig headed and stubborn to listen to reason.

[Schmoe]

... and any of this matters to anyone why?

Because people care too much about other people's business? I don't know, it sounds pretty close to my ranger's stats, to be honest, and I've never had anyone call me out for being a gimp.

[stainer]

Because people care too much about other people's business? I don't know, it sounds pretty close to my ranger's stats, to be honest, and I've never had anyone call me out for being a gimp for that reason only.

Fixed it for you Schmoe.

[Schmoe]

Fixed it for you Schmoe.

Thanks. I try to forget those, ahem, other reasons.