Pure support Bard

[Lyzern]

Hello,

I'm quite the newbie in DDO and been trying to figure out stuff on my own or asking in advice chat, but I'm afraid I'll need some specialized advice from the forumers. I've tried searching and looked up on Diva's and Valindra's guides but still didn't find the questions I'm looking for, so here goes:

- I'm looking for a pure support bard, focused on buffind and healing allies
- I wanna use a Rapier as my weapon but I wouldn't mind using a 2h
- My PrE priorities are Virt > Warchanter > Spellsinger
- I enjoy the Drow race particularly, alternative would be Human
- I'm thinking about a high Cha and Con and somewhat high Str
- Feats would revolve around more SP or Pre Reqs, I really don't want Extend even though people seem to recommend it
- Spells would be buffs > heals > utility

I don't know much about the game to talk about Eq, so:

I would like to know what Race; PrE; Feats and Spells you would recommend and what you think about my goals.
Thanks in advance

[Jubbers]

You can use any race you'd like...

Most people that are looking at the buffing aspect of the bard go warchanter and 20 bard as your inspire song at that level with the pre is +8 to hit and +9 to damage. If you'd like to use rapiers then drow may be a good choice as they have to hit and dam bonuses with them.

The reason people recommend extend is that rage, haste and displacement; 3 primary bard buffs are all short duration and benifit greatly from extend.

If you are looking to go virt then you'll want maxed out Cha so your songs land as often as possable.

Here is what I have found to be true:
1) no one really expects a bard to be main DPS
2) no one expects the bard to be a main healer
3) ALL Groups Need a Bard and are willing to take any flavor of one they can find
4) Anything you add to the group after the bonus to hit and damage as well as possabilly AC at lvl 16 is appreciated.
5) Even the most gimpy lvl 20 bards are still valued as the buffs they provide are massive.

There are a ton of builds out there, you just have to find one that fits your play style.

[Lyzern]

You can use any race you'd like...

Most people that are looking at the buffing aspect of the bard go warchanter and 20 bard as your inspire song at that level with the pre is +8 to hit and +9 to damage. If you'd like to use rapiers then drow may be a good choice as they have to hit and dam bonuses with them.

The reason people recommend extend is that rage, haste and displacement; 3 primary bard buffs are all short duration and benifit greatly from extend.

If you are looking to go virt then you'll want maxed out Cha so your songs land as often as possable.

Here is what I have found to be true:
1) no one really expects a bard to be main DPS
2) no one expects the bard to be a main healer
3) ALL Groups Need a Bard and are willing to take any flavor of one they can find
4) Anything you add to the group after the bonus to hit and damage as well as possabilly AC at lvl 16 is appreciated.
5) Even the most gimpy lvl 20 bards are still valued as the buffs they provide are massive.

There are a ton of builds out there, you just have to find one that fits your play style.

Yes, the Rapier bonus is one of the reasons I want Drow. And as I read more and more through the forums I see Warchanter is the way to go, thanks for your input.

[Noctus]

Hint:

Dont really trust the advice chat. Often trolls/liars/persons with just plain wrong informations are in there. You will get much better results going to the forums if you dont need an answer asap.

[arjiwan]

Hello,

I'm quite the newbie in DDO and been trying to figure out stuff on my own or asking in advice chat, but I'm afraid I'll need some specialized advice from the forumers. I've tried searching and looked up on Diva's and Valindra's guides but still didn't find the questions I'm looking for, so here goes:

- I'm looking for a pure support bard, focused on buffind and healing allies
- I wanna use a Rapier as my weapon but I wouldn't mind using a 2h
- My PrE priorities are Virt > Warchanter > Spellsinger
- I enjoy the Drow race particularly, alternative would be Human
- I'm thinking about a high Cha and Con and somewhat high Str
- Feats would revolve around more SP or Pre Reqs, I really don't want Extend even though people seem to recommend it
- Spells would be buffs > heals > utility

I don't know much about the game to talk about Eq, so:

I would like to know what Race; PrE; Feats and Spells you would recommend and what you think about my goals.
Thanks in advance

Greetings!

Why? Virt > Warchanter > Spellsinger. Sorry I am a noob with other PrE, but I hope you give Spellsingers a chance. It has more SP. You can even solo heal higher content quests. You can even help heal a Raid with only 1 other pure healer.

It is always fun to surprise people that they don't need a Cleric or FVS to do higher content quests. (My main is a Cleric btw.)

Check this link, it has a lot of information. Read it first and I hope most of your questions will be answered.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

Tihocan's basic builds are real helpful to anybody embarking on this for the first time.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=123
Here's Spellsinger, with notes on Warchanter etc.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...06&postcount=6
And here's Warchanter.

Some things to note-

Buffing:
Practically every bard is excellent at this. You can only mess it up by *not* taking Extend!
There is not very much to choose from between a fully specced Spellsinger/Virtuoso and a splashed Warchanter
regarding the Inspire Courage song, which the melee classes rely on. Just max out the Damage and the to-Hit bonuses in your enhancement lines.


Healing:
Bards have 3 ways to heal people: Wands, Scrolls & Spells. Virtuoso Bards also get a Healing song.
Because of the Wand/Scroll enhancements, and the zero spell point cost, Heal scrolls are the preferred way to do it
at higher levels. You can get free wands from turn-ins, and they are a good cheap spot healing benefit when things are not hectic. That saves your Cleric/FvSoul some Spell points.

Virtuoso Bard healsong overwrites the Spellsinger Vigor song, depriving the casters of their regenerating spellpoints. If you have the 2 bards in a group, this can be a problem. Generally, the Vigor is more needed than the healsong.

In terms of spellcasting heals, Spellsingers have the advantage of a bigger point pool, and regeneration of their points. They also get the 10% SP cost discount for casting. If you want to concentrate effort along this line, no matter what kind of Bard, Maximize is better than Empower healing, and Quicken is vital for getting off the spell under pressure. Superior Ardor Clickies are excellent for turbocharging your healing, even without any feats.

[stoerm]

I respecced from virtuoso to spellsinger but with hindsight it wasn't really necessary. Both are good lines, and there have been times when I've really missed Music of the Dead. The spells I mostly use are blur, haste and good hope.

P.S. Special regards to Saturday's elite VoN group that saw through the bard icon and trusted me with the traps. You don't need a rogue icon to be an effective trapper.

[Lyzern]

Thanks for all the responses.

@ Arji, It's an option to consider, but I got too influenced by people's comments (About how Warchanter is the best path and etc), I know I shouldn't, but meh...

@ Robino, you kinda contradict yourself here because you say every Bard is good at buffing except if they don't take expand. If it's a CC Bard how can Expand be of any use? Also, from my PoV Expand only makes you buff less times, I don't see how that's a key factor.

About Virtuoso Heals: Is it a useful heal? Or just some crappy HP restore?

About Metamagic Feats: Why is it so necessary for a Bard to have them? I really don't like them at the moment, I guess they'll get more useful later on?

@ Stoerm, I'm glad to see there's hope beyond WC :P I would really not like to be another sheep

Edit: I forgot to say I went Virtuoso on my current character and I don't think I'm going this path; enthrall isn't really useful imo, specially since you can't mass charm the mobs later on and the other guys just go AoE on sht without thinking and neither is Song of Capering. Hope they give this path better attributes.

[Valindria]

Thanks for all the responses.

@ Arji, It's an option to consider, but I got too influenced by people's comments (About how Warchanter is the best path and etc), I know I shouldn't, but meh...

@ Robino, you kinda contradict yourself here because you say every Bard is good at buffing except if they don't take expand. If it's a CC Bard how can Expand be of any use? Also, from my PoV Expand only makes you buff less times, I don't see how that's a key factor.

About Virtuoso Heals: Is it a useful heal? Or just some crappy HP restore?

About Metamagic Feats: Why is it so necessary for a Bard to have them? I really don't like them at the moment, I guess they'll get more useful later on?

@ Stoerm, I'm glad to see there's hope beyond WC :P I would really not like to be another sheep

Edit: I forgot to say I went Virtuoso on my current character and I don't think I'm going this path; enthrall isn't really useful imo, specially since you can't mass charm the mobs later on and the other guys just go AoE on sht without thinking and neither is Song of Capering. Hope they give this path better attributes.

Enthrall and Caper are amazing. Terrible players are terrible. It just kind of depends on what you want to do. In a lot of situations the pure damage a WC provides is better. However there are situations with a great team where you can enthrall all targets, pick one, dance them OID or SoC, and beat them down one at a time. The range on capering is fantastic, it has a super high DC, and sometimes it lasts a really long time even when they take damage. I have had a mob in epic down to 50% health before it broke caper. It was capered in a fire wall. Not saying that happens all the time, but I have seen it.

That said Virtuoso is not for everyone. I really enjoy mine. Currently my HOrc THF WC is my favorite. They have different play styles and advantages. My Virtuoso is a Drow. If I ever get around to TR (probably soonish) I will probably go human. See Valindria in my sig for an outdated Full TWF Drow Virtuoso.

The heal is a little limited. The regen ticks every second for a small amount. Currently the only way to buff it is with healing amp. The initial heal the song provides can't be used to heal fast since the whole song has to play before it triggers. It's nice at times to clean up damage in between long fights. Also since you have a ton of songs it's easy to use after battles. It is currently broken with WF. Hopefully that gets fixed someday.

Extend will no long extend charm spells with U9. So in the future people might drop extend. I still think most bards will take it for haste/rage/displacement but if spell based CC is your focus then extend will be less helpful in the future.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

Thanks for all the responses.

@ Robino, you kinda contradict yourself here because you say every Bard is good at buffing except if they don't take expand. If it's a CC Bard how can Expand be of any use? Also, from my PoV Expand only makes you buff less times, I don't see how that's a key factor.

.

No matter how great our buffs are, they are worth nothing when they time out. What makes a Buffer good? 2 factors: Solid benefit, that is there when needed. If you need another feat instead, Extend can be replaced by a greater gameplay effort: recasting. Few feats are like that. So, if you prefer something else, go ahead and give it a try- it puts a little more pressure on your gameplay, but maybe you gain more benefit from something else.

It's personal for me- Cleric and Arcane buffers always seem to get long lasting Buffs. Our songs don't last. I'm unhappy being a "second-class" caster/healer.

I have a CC Bard- but the Extend is something I use mostly at the start on Buffs. After that I switch over to Heighten for combat casting. If there were some sort of Clickie version of Extend, that would be great- as you really don't need that feat active most of the time.

[Lyzern]

@Robino I guess I could take it at higher levels when I get Haste

@Valindria What really ticks me off is that most of our songs can be replaced with spells since they take so little time to cast. Fascinate > Sleep. Song of Capering > ORD. Suggestion/Mass suggestion > Charm/Mass charm. And it really bothers me :/

So now I'm consider going THF WC or TWF Spellsinger. Discuss :P

[kaleid0star]

I still think Spell singer is the best PRE if you wanna be a healing bard just because it synergizes well with what you want to do. As for THF and TWF, go THF, all you need is Master's touch and voila, you're doing damage, not a lot of damage, but damage still. going TWF requires feats to be somewhat useful while THF doesn't and bards are already a feat starved class. Hope this helps.

[Lyzern]

I still think Spell singer is the best PRE if you wanna be a healing bard just because it synergizes well with what you want to do. As for THF and TWF, go THF, all you need is Master's touch and voila, you're doing damage, not a lot of damage, but damage still. going TWF requires feats to be somewhat useful while THF doesn't and bards are already a feat starved class. Hope this helps.

Well, I said Pure Support Bard, Buffs and Heals, not only heals, so WC would also be good.

The thing about THW/TWFis: I hate the fact that Bards use 2h weapons in DDO, it's so silly :/ And TWF Rapiers would make me a bit happier, specially with the Drow Rapier enhancements.

[kaleid0star]

Well, I said Pure Support Bard, Buffs and Heals, not only heals, so WC would also be good.

The thing about THW/TWFis: I hate the fact that Bards use 2h weapons in DDO, it's so silly :/ And TWF Rapiers would make me a bit happier, specially with the Drow Rapier enhancements.

Well assuming you go pure bard up to lvl 20 and take all the enhancements to the inspire courage line (attack and hit), a WC will have an advantage in terms of song buff. As for THF/TWF bards play the lute and that uses two hands so why not whack stuff with two hands as well, nothing silly there but I digress. TWF with rapiers will work if you get Elyd's Edge from the sentinels pack and work on making them epic, they regen songs too (^_^)

[Lyzern]

I've decided, I'll be making a Drow TWF SS

Feats:

1 - TWF
3 - Mental Toughness
6 - Extend
9 - ITWF
12 - Toughness
15 - GTWF
18 - N/A - Open to suggestions :P

Enhancements will revolve around Buffing and Healing and Rapier damage

Spells will mostly be buffs and heals (Surprise!)

Thanks for everyone's input on this ^^

[N-0cturn]

I have a healing specced Drow Spellsinger and there are several things to consider.

1. If you PUG alot many player wont trust you with healing. I even stopped telling shroud groups thats I am healing specced because they will get a second "full" healer anyway. If I run with people I know, then its a different matter. And with 2 clerics/favored souls healing one can feels a bit useless in a shroud ^^.

2. The spell CC can be great at the moment. I can help out with single holds in most Epics and solo CC the easier ones. Even if you are no Spellsinger or have less Cha, irresistable Dance on caster or elementals will help alot. With U9 this will probably change .

3. I would prefer Human as a Race for bards ... Bards simply need thats extra feat more than anything. Although if you only have 28 point build available Drow are a good choice too.


I would go with a melee bard atm.

Melee spellsinger have more SP and 10% Discount on SP-costs for caster and SP regen, so they are pretty decent support healer.
Warchanter gives you +2/+1 on Inspire courage and the ability to use medium armor (the event mithral plate armor (if you have it) or marilith chain for example)
Virtuoso gives nice CC songs and the healing song.

I prefer Spellsinger for a pure bard because of the feat you lose by going warchanter. Thats why most warchanter are 16/2/2 splits or similar.

[elujin]

first off i love virtuoso and my bard is one
but from a pure suport point of view its the least the outher 2 buff there partys up mutch better especialy in raids.

i virt does great doing suport cc in epics though
as for songs beeing replaced by spells

the dc's of songs are mutch higher and cappering vs ord cappering is a short song at range and isn't blocked by walls also it by passes spell resitance where ord doesn't .

on my virt i use both

if you wanne do healing though your prob right by picking ss the healing song is nice but nothing to write home about the spellpoint song wel net mutch more healing .

[N-0cturn]

I've decided, I'll be making a Drow TWF SS

Feats:

1 - TWF
3 - Mental Toughness
6 - Extend
9 - ITWF
12 - Toughness
15 - GTWF
18 - N/A - Open to suggestions :P

Enhancements will revolve around Buffing and Healing and Rapier damage

Spells will mostly be buffs and heals (Surprise!)

Thanks for everyone's input on this ^^

Feats thats would be useful:
Power attack - If you want to do decent melee dmg you want it.
Maximize - If you want to heal you need maximize, your mass cures won't heal enough dmg without it.
Quicken - almost as important for healing as Maximize. Sometimes you just need quick healing.


So i would swap Mental Toughness for Maximize (both fill the requirement for spellsinger).

Power Attack vs Quicken depends if you want more healing or more melee power. Or you could go Human and take both .

Improved critical would also be nice but i cant see how that would fit in.

[kcru]

@Robino I guess I could take it at higher levels when I get Haste

@Valindria What really ticks me off is that most of our songs can be replaced with spells since they take so little time to cast. Fascinate > Sleep. Song of Capering > ORD. Suggestion/Mass suggestion > Charm/Mass charm. And it really bothers me :/

So now I'm consider going THF WC or TWF Spellsinger. Discuss :P

DCs on songs are much higher than your spells. That will make them more reliable. Not a huge deal at low levels, but could come into play at high levels.

[suszterpatt]

IMO, if you want to focus on buffs and healing, go with Cleric or FvS instead.


That said, I have a lvl 14 human Virtuoso (currently on hold for technical reasons) that I enjoy greatly. There's exactly 3 things he can do: buff, fascinate (including undead), and charm. Dual scepters, no combat skills at all. Maxed out CHA, Perform, Enchantment/Fascinate DC and Spell Pen. His only other high-ish stat is CON (I plan to not take Toughness to make room for Spell Focus/Pen feats, we'll see how well that works out in endgame). He's great for support, and let me tell you, Invaders gets a lot easier when you can charm the Elder Beholders 90+% of the time.