Spell casting DPS chart for U9

[Trillea]

Fun fact:
12 sorcerers, cycle 1, 5 curses:
1962*12=23,500 DPS = 14 seconds for arraetrikos part 5 elite. (330,000 hp)

I want to see this video.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I want to see this video.

Haha, same here. I'd be hilarious to say the least.

[Ridag]

Indeed. But be careful when saying that, or you will have a horde of trolls calling you a "jealous melee that want the game to be turned into WOW".

I think it is more of a matter of how and where it is presented. If you go into a "DOOM" thread point out that more "DOOM" is needed, that that is the type of vitriol you will incite and receive.

This thread is more appropriate, but not the whole show. You are presenting great data, which I'm sure still needs to be tweaked here and there.

Can anyone runs some tests on Lam to see how the cycles will actually play out? That is as much a part of it as anything.

There is also the matter of agro. If you have to kite/circle strafe and deal with incoming damage, you obviously cannot continue to put out optimal DPS, and that has to be taken into consideration.

The biggest point here seems to be the possibility of the instant application of 5 curses, it should be changed to ramp up over time instead of a cooldown/duration limitation.

I'd also love to hear some of the ideas that the two of you have to change the DPS, while still keeping DPS Savants a legit end-game option.

[Aaxeyu]

I'd also love to hear some of the ideas that the two of you have to change the DPS, while still keeping DPS Savants a legit end-game option.

As I said in the other thread, I think they should remove the curse altogether.

[Ridag]

No worries! And thanks a lot.

Yup, 729 dps using the low-sp cost cycle will be really nice. Can keep it up for 500ish seconds and won't take aggro with it (assuming subtle spell casting enhancements).

Yea, the saves might a bit low, tried increasing them to 100 (ie, 5% success rate for all save spells) and the dps only dropped by a few hundreds. Polar ray, ice storm and biting cold has got so nice damage.

And yea, the curse needs to be adjusted. Honestly, I'd rather see the tier 3 ability on teir 2, and a new tier 3 ability making half the damage epic. That way fire would be useful, and the savants would get that much more damage.

Fun fact:
12 sorcerers, cycle 1, 5 curses:
1962*12=23,500 DPS = 14 seconds for arraetrikos part 5 elite. (330,000 hp)

If they made the T3 ability make half the damage epic, I think I could live without the curses all together.

I'm not a big fan of having to keep a debuff running.

[paraplegic]

Fun fact:
12 sorcerers, cycle 1, 5 curses:
1962*12=23,500 DPS = 14 seconds for arraetrikos part 5 elite. (330,000 hp)

mmm looks like ill be leveling my sorc!

[Cartheron]

Ah, and 1 more thing. I dont know if that was fixed in this Lamannia patch, but lesser maximize clickie is not giving you free maximize. It gives you 25sp discount on metamagic cost (stacking with maximize enchantments), so in fact it is making your chain even cheaper than assumed.

I can provide screenshots if you want.

PS. I have bug reported it

[Absolute-Omniscience]

If they made the T3 ability make half the damage epic, I think I could live without the curses all together.

I'm not a big fan of having to keep a debuff running.

Exactly. Just remove the bloody (and overpowered) curse already. And give fire some viablity by chaning it to half epic. (goes for the other ones as well, of course).

Changing Niac's biting cold to non-stacking (if only one caster) would reduce the damgae by quite a bit, and it'd still be an amazing spell.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Ah, and 1 more thing. I dont know if that was fixed in this Lamannia patch, but lesser maximize clickie is not giving you free maximize. It gives you 25sp discount on metamagic cost (stacking with maximize enchantments), so in fact it is making your chain even cheaper than assumed.

I can provide screenshots if you want.

PS. I have bug reported it

Alright, good to know. Makes my decision on going improved maximize or improved empower on my sorc quite easy.

[Ridag]

As I said in the other thread, I think they should remove the curse altogether.

I'm not sure that they will do that, or even if they can do that. At least not without a bit of a player riot.

It would have to be replaced with something, whether that be epic (untyped) damage at a certain percentage or some other boon to the actual savant lines.

Looking at the chart, if you had no Water Savant lines what-so-ever and just maxed out your Cold enhancement lines and another element of your choice, your DPS would still be good enough for all current content. So why take a savant line at all?

It seems that the spell pass alone has made elemental DPS casting an option, Savants are just gravy.

[Aaxeyu]

I'm not sure that they will do that, or even if they can do that. At least not without a bit of a player riot.

It would have to be replaced with something, whether that be epic (untyped) damage at a certain percentage or some other boon to the actual savant lines.

Looking at the chart, if you had no Water Savant lines what-so-ever and just maxed out your Cold enhancement lines and another element of your choice, your DPS would still be good enough for all current content. So why take a savant line at all?

It seems that the spell pass alone has made elemental DPS casting an option, Savants are just gravy.

I agree with A-Os suggestion. But the most important thing is to remove the curses, IMO.

[Ridag]

I agree with A-Os suggestion. But the most important thing is to remove the curses, IMO.

I can agree with removing the curse, but you would have to offer something else to savant lines.

Changing a percentage of the damage to Epic for each tier would be good. Maybe at something like 10%/15%/25% stacking per tier, for a total of 50%.

Another option would be elemental forms, with bonuses to various casting abilities while in form.

The problem is that these changes would take time and resources, and simply removing the curse without replacing it with something else would be a very negative change and would greatly upset the player base.

[Aaxeyu]

The problem is that these changes would take time and resources, and simply removing the curse without replacing it with something else would be a very negative change and would greatly upset the player base.

I think letting the savants be as they are now would upset the player base a whole lot more in the long run.
Savant still get SLA, - to resistances, extra caster levels etc etc.

They would be still be fine if you removed the curses and gave them nothing in return. It's not like 1000 DPS is something to be ashamed of.

[Ridag]

I think letting the savants be as they are now would upset the player base a whole lot more in the long run.
Savant still get SLA, - to resistances, extra caster levels etc etc.

They would be still be fine if you removed the curses and gave them nothing in return. It's not like 1000 DPS is something to be ashamed of.

Pandora's box has been opened, a complete removal of an ability without the addition of anything further would have the perception of a disemboweling. That would be bad for the game in the long run as well.

The curses are going to get nerfed, that is obviously just a matter of time. If they get adjusted on Lam they might still be useful without being ridiculous, if they make it to live as is they are going to get hammered to the point of uselessness.

I think the chances of the curses being removed is slim. Being removed and replaced with something useful is even slimmer.

Is there a way to keep the curses and make them useful without being overpowering, and at the same time easily implemented by the dev team?

[Ridag]

If you guys are up for it, could you do such a chart for each Savant line to see how they compare? Perhaps make each one a separate table so you could just tab back and forth.

[Soleran]

So with 1 curse your looking at 729 dps, that is good damage at the risk of obtaining agro and fits the Savant mold fairly well I'd say.

With DPS like that it's time to totally redo archery since apparently risk vs damage of melee combat isn't a factor in the balance atm.

[Ridag]

With DPS like that it's time to totally redo archery since apparently risk vs damage of melee combat isn't a factor in the balance atm.

There would still be risk, and you could certainly not sustain that DPS if you pulled agro.

I'm all for an archery pass, but you must remember that many (not all) archers also have acceptable melee abilities as well.

[Trillea]

Pandora's box has been opened, a complete removal of an ability without the addition of anything further would have the perception of a disemboweling. That would be bad for the game in the long run as well.

The curses are going to get nerfed, that is obviously just a matter of time. If they get adjusted on Lam they might still be useful without being ridiculous, if they make it to live as is they are going to get hammered to the point of uselessness.

I think the chances of the curses being removed is slim. Being removed and replaced with something useful is even slimmer.

Is there a way to keep the curses and make them useful without being overpowering, and at the same time easily implemented by the dev team?

Did anyone reading this thread ever think that this really high DPS is what the Devs were going for? For update after update, they have been slowly molding casters into archetypes (with some slipups on the way) - the really high DC specialists (archmages); The not-quite-so-high-DC generalists (PMs - this is where they screwed up and let the fact that the generalists get the same DCs as the specialists due to Yugo pots), and now they have added a third archetype - the blaster. Now the fact that they made 4 different flavors of blaster is good, and the archetypes can and should be balanced against each other. Acid should be the DoT blaster (it is), fire the uber-high-DPS-if-you-are-not-immune (Good job here but make capstone work on undead please), ice should really IMO have a slow effect on all enemies based on spell level (unnamed mobs get 5% movement penalty per spell level, orange name 4%, red named 2%, and purple named 1% movement/attack penalty), and lightning should be the generalist damage spell.

I think that they did well in many areas implementing this, but the high DPS that savants are capable of putting out right now I think is a very GOOD thing.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

If you guys are up for it, could you do such a chart for each Savant line to see how they compare? Perhaps make each one a separate table so you could just tab back and forth.

Yea, something that is worth implementing. Going to take a bit of time though, gonna powerlevel my TRd wizard so he's ready for TRing into a sorcerer once U9 hits live.

[Ridag]

Yea, something that is worth implementing. Going to take a bit of time though, gonna powerlevel my TRd wizard so he's ready for TRing into a sorcerer once U9 hits live.

I've just banked 18 on my 3rd Sorc life, he also has 1 Wiz life for the active feat and spell pen. I don't think I could handle any more Wizard lives as I deplored the longer casting speeds and cooldowns.

Right now my biggest decision is between Human and Warforged for the final life.

I've always been a huge advocate of human, for the extra feat while still maintain highest possible DCs, but I gotta say that WF has seriously grown on me over the course of this last life. I'm starting to feel like the immunities and Reconstruct are really worth the -1 DC and loss of a feat over human, it's a really tough choice...

A WF Air Savant would be just about unstoppable...