Living spells

[~STERLIN1]

Here's a great idea. Why don't we make a living spell grease and then we could let it cast wail of the banshee... Sounds pretty stupid and kinda like deliberate griefing of the players right? So why then is there a living spell delayed blast fireball in kobold that casts that and scorching ray? No matter how good your save is you have a 5 percent chance of failing it and that alone argues for this being a dirty tactic to make sure players take damage but there is more to it that that. A character that has evasion has given up something for it. Whether it is casting ability, BA, base hit points, whatever. Oh, and it gets worse..if evasion is so OP that you need to circumvent it why do so many mobs have it? Finally, the trivial point, it a a "living fireball spell" that casts something else...suspension of disbelief fail. Its stretched with a living spell that casts that spell, it is in my opinion exceeded with them becoming mages that accurately identify target weakness such that they use rays on those that will save against their fireballs.

[markusthelion]

meh...Kobold is weaksauce now, not sure what your proposing here as a suggestion but that quest is way better than it used to be.

[Lithic]

Fire resist 30 will negate a scorching ray completely (or almost).

As forthe grease spell with wail? FOM + DW and you can ignore it.

[~STERLIN1]

First off it doesnt negate it, it halves it second the monster should not have the spell based on sense or the monsters manual and third it was added to deliberately counter a player ability. As for it being weaksauce how many pugs have you run it in?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

No matter how good your save is you have a 5 percent chance of failing it

In your own words "check your data"

You might want to read this http://ddowiki.com/page/Scorching_Ray

SR has no save.

You can however avoid it by not being where the ray is going.

You may also wish to read this: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.a...t/2010February

Which will let you know that living spells, per the rules, may be comprised of two or more spells.

[~STERLIN1]

Not only did you miss the spirit of my post you corrected me erroneously. One, livings spells may not per the rules have two spells you are quoting a fairly specific instance in an optional source and those living spells are named for their dual nature. DBF is not DBF plus. That is a direct manipulation for a specific effect as I suggested. It is a "DDO specal". Two, can you dodge a ray in melee? No you cant. And with increasing frequecy you cannot dodge them at ranged except to outrange them. I have watched them autocorrect. My facts are sound yours are not when taken as correction of my comment in its entirety. Oh and the fact that scorch has no save was precisely my point, it was added to them for that exact benefit.

[Vordax]

Not only did you miss the spirit of my post you corrected me erroneously. One, livings spells may not per the rules have two spells you are quoting a fairly specific instance in an optional source and those living spells are named for their dual nature. DBF is not DBF plus. That is a direct manipulation for a specific effect as I suggested. It is a "DDO specal". Two, can you dodge a ray in melee? No you cant. And with increasing frequecy you cannot dodge them at ranged except to outrange them. I have watched them autocorrect. My facts are sound yours are not when taken as correction of my comment in its entirety.

From the Eberron Campaign Setting book, page 294:

The characteristic(s) of a living spell are determined by the nature of the spell(s) .... A living spell composed of more than 1 spell uses the same caster level for all its spell effects.

It goes on to list more information about how to determine CR etc with multiple spells.

Doesn't look like much of an optional rule to me.

Vordax

[~STERLIN1]

So you have the sourcebook. Thats great. Then you know that it says that the effects go off from a slam attack which is mellee and yet they clearly ranged you. It also says that they can only be of aoe spells and not targetted ones..you know scorching ray is targetted right? It is extremely curious that you missed those point as they are in the sentence immediately preceeding the one you quoted and would nullify the arguement and yet you made it anyway. Did you understand the spirit of my post or do you just wish to be argumentative?

[Vordax]

So you have the sourcebook. Thats great. Then you know that it says that the effects go off from a slam attack which is mellee and yet they clearly ranged you. It also says that they can only be of aoe spells and not targetted ones..you know scorching ray is targetted right? It is extremely curious that you missed those point as they are in the sentence immediately preceeding the one you quoted and would nullify the arguement and yet you made it anyway. Did you understand the spirit of my post or do you just wish to be argumentative?

I was refuting your insistence that more than 1 spell is not allowed and that it was an optional rule. I think I successfully refuted that. More than likely Turbine wanted to pick another second effect that was not AOE to limit the power of the living spell. I supposed they could have picked fireball instead.

Yes I understand the spirit of your argument, Kobold is too hard for you and you want it nerfed.

Vordax

[PwnHammer40K]

I vote for a Living Dimension Door, which randomly puts players back at the start of the quest.

Living Greater Teleport, with an AoE attack that teleports the targeted members to random locations across the game universe, each victim to a different location.

A Living Chest, not quite a Mimic, that loots itself and interacts with players in the party chat, /rolling on everything and initiating drama (Will Save DC equal to loot level) if it loses.

Living Slay Living, that immediately kills itself upon instance creation and is thus never actually seen.

[Bodic]

This is a guide feel free to change things as you see fit.

DDO is house rules and turbine is the DM.

[PresentTense]

A suggestion, Sterlin: You'll get more helpful responses if, instead of complaining about content you find difficult, you ask if there are any strategies to make difficult content easier. Many groups will just brute-force this quest with fire resist, cold shield and evasion, but if you're having trouble, pick up a wizard who knows the level two spell ooze puppet. This is one of the few quests in which it is useful, because living spells are technically considered to be oozes. With them charmed and out of the way, you'll find it easier to deal with the rest of enemies. On normal, the fire elementals will not not respawn, so if you can draw them out and avoid aggroing the bosses it will be even easier.

[Nysrock]

Here's a great idea. Why don't we make a living spell grease and then we could let it cast wail of the banshee... Sounds pretty stupid and kinda like deliberate griefing of the players right? So why then is there a living spell delayed blast fireball in kobold that casts that and scorching ray? No matter how good your save is you have a 5 percent chance of failing it and that alone argues for this being a dirty tactic to make sure players take damage but there is more to it that that. A character that has evasion has given up something for it. Whether it is casting ability, BA, base hit points, whatever. Oh, and it gets worse..if evasion is so OP that you need to circumvent it why do so many mobs have it? Finally, the trivial point, it a a "living fireball spell" that casts something else...suspension of disbelief fail. Its stretched with a living spell that casts that spell, it is in my opinion exceeded with them becoming mages that accurately identify target weakness such that they use rays on those that will save against their fireballs.

While I do see where you are coming from I am still not sure why. There are so many things in DDO that fly in the face of traditional D&D that to take 1 and say it flies in the face of reason is kinda pointless.

Your best bet would be to find some different tactics and/or builds to work around the troubles you are having. The same thing any of us that have been around since the beginning have had to do. Every time they nerf something or change something in game people have to adjust tactics, spells, weapons, etc to handle the changes. Just ask around the forums and I am sure you will find a lot of helpful advice to deal with the troubles you are having.

[~STERLIN1]

It did not "limit" it it strengthened it as this spell selection does damage to a toon it otherwise might not be able to damage due to evasion and the "fix" for this issue is to slap still more hp on your toon. Not a creative solution and not polite on the part of turbine considering rogue do not get toughness increasing enhancements and this of course to counter evasion toons as I suggested. That doesnt encourage diversity and problem solving it discourages it from the build on. Additionally this change has very clear meta implications and many of the posts regarding this instance are flat wrong. I would recommend doing the instance again for anyone that wants to comment on this because they have clearly toyed with it since many of you ran it last. A good pug group wont wipe but will have several deaths on normal on that fight reasonably well geared and full buffed. A bad one will wipe..a lot. They artificially increased the difficulty of the quest presumably due to gearing and tactics of the older player base and while they still play most pugs are not them. Finally I see no point in gamers arguing against gamers about reasonable complaints. Find something better to complain about than my complaint and post it yourself particularily as this is a suggestion and a valid one.

[wingmaker]

Bring a wizard that can charm and has ooze puppet.. problem solved till they increase the cool down and sp of them too..

[Quarterling]

I vote for a Living Dimension Door, which randomly puts players back at the start of the quest.

Living Greater Teleport, with an AoE attack that teleports the targeted members to random locations across the game universe, each victim to a different location.

/signed

It will give us another use for the Boots of Anchoring!

[hityawithastick]

Bring a wizard that can charm and has ooze puppet.. problem solved till they increase the cool down and sp of them too..

As a wizard that has charm and ooze puppet, I can say that I've never died to the living spells. I've watched a number of party members do so, usually from far away, but never died myself.

[PwnHammer40K]

/signed

It will give us another use for the Boots of Anchoring!

What do you mean, another use? I already find them indispensable in avoiding that annoying debuff which causes you to attack so fast I keep missing more than usual!

[Qezuzu]

A character that has evasion has given up something for it. Whether it is casting ability, BA, base hit points, whatever.

Every character?

[shores11]

meh...Kobold is weaksauce now, not sure what your proposing here as a suggestion but that quest is way better than it used to be.

You mean easier...this does not mean better.