The Yogurthawker: Ultra-Survivable, Self-Sufficient Melee, Without Trashing DPS

[Stanley_Nicholas]

A lot of fuss is made about maximum DPS, which builds can get there, and under what circumstances. I like those DPS builds, they're a lot of fun to put together and play, tearing up content in god-like fashion (provided you have the gear and a healer). But that's not what I purport to be showing here. Yes, the Yogurthawker has excellent DPS, but it won't be top of the line. That's the trade-off for having much higher survivability and self-sufficiency than a pure fighter or barb (and even most pure rogues, rangers, and paladins).

The basic premise is to build for survivability via (1) saves, evasion, and self-healing (i.e. self-sufficiency), and (2) hit points, while attempting to minimize the sacrifice to DPS. Push str, con, and cha all as high as possible. I'm sure there are improvements that could be made, particularly in the equipment, but all gear and tomes listed are what I currently have available, not necessarily what would be most ideal. Enhancements might also be adjusted for more DPS (e.g. I'm sure some will feel an uncontrollable urge to jump on the fact that I only listed Haste Boost II), but the only way to do it would be to lower his hit points and/or drop Unyielding Soverignty, and I personally find the added survivability is worth that trade off. DPS is important, but survivability takes priority here.

What I'd be most interested in is if anybody has any suggestions on how to fit in a sneak attack item (pirate hat would be acceptable, or potentially anything else), without dropping anything significant. Also, if I ever get an Epic Helm of the Red Dragon, where could I move my shroud hit point item in order to wear it?

Any other comments/suggestions are welcome, though I'm not likely to make any major changes to the build. It's something I've worked on for a long time and it's really a blast to play - it's like a cockroach, it's so survivable, yet DPS is no slouch either, especially against end game devils and demons. The Yogurthawker may not be the #1 hardest hitter, but he easily holds his own and between massive saves + evasion, a few "oh ****" burst heals, and the ability to heal/buff/teleport etc. via wands and scrolls, he has every chance to be the last man standing when the **** hits the fan. Oh and he can open locks too.

12 Fighter / 6 Paladin / 2 Rogue
Lawful Good Human Male
Name: Cleatus Yogurthawker

36 point build (currently would have fighter, barb, and paladin past lives)

Abilities:
Str: 18 +5 levels +4 enhancement +6 item +4 tome +3 exceptional = 40 unbuffed
+8 power surge +2 rage +2 yugo pot +4 double madstone +6 titan grip +4 berserker's fury rage +2 ship buff = 68 very temporary

Dex: 13 +4 tome +7 item = 24
Con: 14 +2 tome +7 item + 3 exceptional = 26
Int: 9 +3 tome = 12
Wis: 8 +4 tome +6 item = 18
Cha: 15 +4 tome +3 enhancement +7 item +3 exceptional = 32

Hit Points:
20 heroic durability
12 rogue
60 paladin
120 fighter
180 con
10 argo favor
40 superior false life
45 shroud item
22 toughness feat
70 toughness enhancements
20 toughness item
10 barb past life
20 berserker's fury (taken barb past life feat)
---
599 + rages and other temporary buffs

Saves:
0/3/0 rogue
5/2/2 paladin
8/4/4 fighter
9/0/0 con
0/7/0 dex
0/0/11 cha (FoP)
11/11/11 divine grace
1/1/1 aura enhancement
2/2/2 luck
5/5/5 resistance item
------
41/35/36 unbuffed

4/4/4 gh clicky/scroll
5/5/5 superior parrying & +2 exceptional dex (epic swashbuckler)
------
50/44/45 with simple self-buffs

Almost any save will only fail on a 1, even in pvp (though I care nothing for pvp). Evasion + 44 reflex (46 vs. traps) = huge damage mitigation. In most cases they're largely overkill, and FoP is probably not doing a lot for me (maybe it would be better swapped for another toughness feat?), but I really like the idea of getting mid-40's+ on all saves (and the ability to raid buff them all into the 50's) when the situation might call for it, such as in future epics (and certain current ones).

UMD:
23 ranks
11 cha
6 cha skills item
2 luck
4 gh
3 persuasion (epic cloak of the silver concord)
---
49 ~ No-fail heal/gh/true seeing etc. scrolls, with a very good chance at activating even a level 9 scroll, and no feat required.

Levels, Feats, Tomes:
1 Rogue - Force of Personality, Toughness
2 Paladin
3 Paladin - Weapon Focus: Slashing
(+1 int tome)
4 Paladin
5 Paladin
6 Paladin - Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
7 Paladin
(+2 dex tome)
8 Fighter - Two Weapon Fighting
9 Fighter - Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter
11 Fighter - Weapon Specialization: Slashing
(+3 int, +3 con tomes)
12 Rogue - Past Life: Berserker's Fury
13 Fighter
14 Fighter - Stunning Blow
15 Fighter - Power Attack
(+4 str, +4 dex, +4 wis, +4 cha tomes)
16 Fighter - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
17 Fighter
18 Fighter - Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
19 Fighter
20 Fighter - Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing

Skills:
Level 1: 4 Balance, 4 Haggle, 4 Intimidate, 4 Jump, 4 Open Lock, 4 Swim, 4 Tumble, 4 UMD
Levels 2 & 3: 1 Intimidate, 0.5 Open Lock
Levels 4-10: 1 Intimidate, 1 Open Lock
Level 11: 1 Intimidate, 1 UMD
Level 12: 10 UMD
Level 13: 2 Intimidate, 1 UMD
Level 14-19: 1 Intimidate, 0.5 Open Lock, 1 UMD
Level 20: 1 Intimidate, 1 Swim, 1 UMD

Total Ranks: 23 Intimidate, 23 UMD, 15 Open Lock, 5 Swim, 4 Balance, Haggle, Jump, Tumble

Intimidate of 23 +15 item +6 cha skills +2 luck +4 gh +2 berserker's fury +11 cha = 63

Current Gear:
Goggles: 6 cha skills, 300 sp, air guard
Helm: 45 hp, 6 str skills, corrosive salt guard
Neck: Epic Hyena Claw Necklace (+1 exceptional con slotted), Shintao (for DPS)
Trinket: Epic Pouch of Jerky (+2 luck slotted)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of the Silver Concord (blindness immunity slotted)
Belt: Occult Slayer (for saves), Ravager (for DPS)
Ring 1: Occult Slayer (for saves), Ravager (for DPS)
Ring 2: Shintao (+2 cha slotted)
Gloves: Epic Spectral Gloves (proof against poison slotted)
Boots: Epic Dustless Boots (feather falling slotted), Madstone, Delving, Anchoring
Bracers: Epic Kundarak Warding Bracers
Armor: Epic Demon Scale Armor (Heavy Fort slotted)

Primary weapons: Mineral II khopeshes, Holy + Acid Burst + Acid Blast main hand, Holy + Acid Burst + 2 con off hand

Enhancements:
Fighter Attack Boost II
Fighter Haste Boost II
Unyielding Soverignty
Follower of the Silver Flame
Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Fighter Kensei II
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Human Adaptability: Strength
Human Greater Adaptability: Charisma
Human Improved Recovery I
Paladin Courage of Good I
Paladin Resistance of Good I
Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Paladin Exalted Smite I
Paladin Extra Lay On Hands I
Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Racial Toughness II
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Paladin Charisma II
Fighter Strength III
Fighter Toughness IV
Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Paladin Divine Might I

[ThePrincipal]

I have a similar build on sarlona, differences include i went drow. i liked the idea of SR on top of the saves and bonus to dex, cha, and int since i dont have 34 pt build. for flavor i went with bastard swords. while leveling up i used hunter of the dead, but switched it out to the knight pre for the end game devil slaughter.

i went combat expertise in place of power attack, and took toughness twice. my build can hit low 60s AC without crafted or epic gear. evasion/saves and hp are great, but you also need AC to be truly self sufficient. so my only opinion to you would be to have a AC or shield tank option.

[nolaureltree000]

if one of your goals is survivability, id add in some healing amp via the human improved recovery line, ideally max it out.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Swap the 2 rogue levels for monk levels instead? Surely will add a lot to the build and in U9 you could do a lot with stunning fist worked into your build and situationally using handwraps.

I thought for a second that you needed the 23 UMD ranks but you only have 13, going monk would cost you 2 and maybe some ranks elsewhere but for the AC and other monk perks it will certainly be worthwhile.

[blitzschlag]

Swap the 2 rogue levels for monk levels instead? Surely will add a lot to the build and in U9 you could do a lot with stunning fist worked into your build and situationally using handwraps.

I thought for a second that you needed the 23 UMD ranks but you only have 13, going monk would cost you 2 and maybe some ranks elsewhere but for the AC and other monk perks it will certainly be worthwhile.

no ac when wis is a dumpstat.

stunning fist needs monk levels and wisdom modifier to be of any use and ofc a monk weapon (which khopesh is not).

actually the build as is would loose quite alot and gain nothing with monk instead of rogue

[Aaxeyu]

Here's a similiar build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=288851

More focus on healing amp and HP.
Why don't you get full ranks of UMD?? That way you don't have to waste an item slot on a +6 cha skill item.


And not getting haste boost IV is just dumb TBH. Taking haste boost IV instead of KotC 1 would most likely give you higher DPS.

[wax_on_wax_off]

no ac when wis is a dumpstat.

stunning fist needs monk levels and wisdom modifier to be of any use and ofc a monk weapon (which khopesh is not).

actually the build as is would loose quite alot and gain nothing with monk instead of rogue

Mhmm, well, you could gain all that AC by dropping strength from 18 to 16 (6 build points). After that (even before that) it is more about gear and ship buffs.

Stunning fist will be based off character level in update 9, this build would be capable of over 40 DC for stunning fist, even over 45 depending on gear. Handwraps situationally would do more DPS than khopeshes (such as against 100% fort mobs). You could also gain +1 intimidate (badger philosophy), +3 fort and will saves (monk base saves), 2 feats ... Lose what? Not gain much?

Also, I'd change the build to half-elf and pick up rogue dilettante to make up for the lost sneak attack DPS (and gain more).

[blitzschlag]

Mhmm, well, you could gain all that AC by dropping strength from 18 to 16 (6 build points). After that (even before that) it is more about gear and ship buffs.

Stunning fist will be based off character level in update 9, this build would be capable of over 40 DC for stunning fist, even over 45 depending on gear. Handwraps situationally would do more DPS than khopeshes (such as against 100% fort mobs). You could also gain +1 intimidate (badger philosophy), +3 fort and will saves (monk base saves), 2 feats ... Lose what? Not gain much?

Also, I'd change the build to half-elf and pick up rogue dilettante to make up for the lost sneak attack DPS (and gain more).

can you link me to a source where the new dc is confirmed? mod 9 release notes don't state anything like that...

[PurpleTimb]

Interesting build. If I wanted to do something similar with a 32 point build (and without 4 +4 tomes) how could I make the stat distribution work? Would drow be better then?

[blitzschlag]

Interesting build. If I wanted to do something similar with a 32 point build (and without 4 +4 tomes) how could I make the stat distribution work? Would drow be better then?

this build would probably suck without 36 points, the +4 tomes and the gear. its no starter build.

and in 19 of 20 cases you think a drow could pull something off, it really can't.

[wax_on_wax_off]

this build would probably suck without 36 points, the +4 tomes and the gear. its no starter build.

and in 19 of 20 cases you think a drow could pull something off, it really can't.

This build is totally fine with only 32 points. Heck, dropping strength from 18 to 16 saves you 6 build points right there. What other factors would prevent you from doing it with 32 points?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

To those who noted the 13 ranks in UMD instead of 23, my bad. That was a typo - there would be 23, and the total would be 10 higher. I'll fix it in a minute. Obviously the cha skills item/gh/whatever wouldn't be strictly necessary if level 6 scrolls and below are your only goal. If you want to have a decent shot at anything higher level, like resurrection, then you could leave them in. Player's choice, of course. Slot something else if you prefer.

Greater healing amp is nice, so definitely feel free to rearrange enhancements to improve it if that floats your boat. Hunter of the Dead might be a valid option instead of Knight of the Chalice for this purpose too - and yes I do recommend going HotD while leveling up and only switching to KotC as you approach level cap and start facing mainly evil outsiders.

For the guy recommending haste boost IV over KotC I, well I'm surprised you're the only one who mentioned it. As I said, the build doesn't aim for top DPS - in fact it sacrifices a little bit for improved self-sufficiency. If you prefer maxing out haste boost go right ahead. I know the build gets extra boosts due to Kensai II, but they aren't unlimited. Once they run out, you'll be better off over long durations with KotC even in terms of DPS. I prefer to build for the long haul, just in case.

Interesting build. If I wanted to do something similar with a 32 point build (and without 4 +4 tomes) how could I make the stat distribution work? Would drow be better then?

It works fine with a basic 32 point build. I definitely still recommend human, though drow is fine if you don't mind 30-50 fewer hit points and lower healing amp. half-elf may be a workable choice as well if you decide you don't need the extra feat or intimidate and can come up with a +2 int tome (see below). This is how I would build it:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 45 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            6                    29
Jump                  7                    11
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                    11
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  7                    11
Tumble                6                     7
Use Magic Device      6                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Note the higher starting dex so you can get all the TWF feats with a +2 dex tome, and the starting str being 2 points lower. Skill levels will be a bit lower but still mostly adequate, and if you don't care about intimidate (it seems to be getting a big nerf in the next update anyway) you could dump it and not need the int tome, or use those points on getting a higher open lock/balance instead.

Skill Focus: UMD helps offset a lack of gear and +4 cha tome, and you'll still have no trouble hitting at least 39 with buffs. You may not even need the feat depending on your equipment, and once you can get 39 without the feat you might consider dropping it for quickdraw (if DPS is your main priority and you're taking haste boost IV somehow), lightning reflexes (I'm a saves junkie, so this would be my choice), or a second helping of toughness (a close second choice for me).

[Stanley_Nicholas]

I'm not a fan of substituting monk for rogue on this build. Wisdom is a dump stat here (making stunning fist utterly useless), and changing that would mean sacrificing strength and/or charisma. Sure, strength could be dropped to 16 and then wis could start at 14. Force of Personality could be traded in too then. It's not awful and would be a very viable build, but it would be entirely different as well. I personally like the versatility of the rogue version better.

AC could be made useful to a certain degree when running quests on normal, but this build already has a high enough gear requirement that there would be no way to fit in the gear to make AC relevant in elite/epic. If you want a ~60 AC for soloing purposes on solo and normal quests, you'll probably get a lot of mileage out of it. A vastly different version with monk levels might pull it off but then it wouldn't hardly resemble this build anymore.

Personally I'm fine with how it plays with AC and wisdom dumped. Haste, displacement, and stoneskin clickys plus UMD heal scrolls are plenty for most purposes and I find it tons of fun. Your mileage may vary.

[division]

+4 tomes must grow on tree's these days.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

+4 tomes must grow on tree's these days.

What can I say. I have one particular character who has done a lot of epic raiding, and has been relatively fortunate. Though one of them is an unbound version from festival coins that I purchased from another player. I'd love to get a +4 con though.

In any case, clearly none of them are completely necessary for the build. It would be fine with a single +2 dex and no others, with a rearranging of the starting stats.