Thoughts on the U9 new items

[sirgog]

Thoughts on the Update 9 items

All of the items are listed here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309461 - thanks Shade.

Generally I find these items underwhelming. The non-epic Red Fens had several items that were powerful and worth seeking out and using for several levels. One or two (particularly the non-epic Claw set) are even worthwhile on ungeared level 20s. Likewise the Assault on Stormreach chain has some real goodies.

This chain, OTOH, has very little.

Here's my thoughts on the items in the new pack, and, for those that are too weak to consider using, suggestions to improve them.




Axe of Famine
This dwarven axe combines sub-standard DPS (actually borderline awful DPS) with the best rednamed boss debuffing abilities yet seen on a single weapon.
The combination of Weakening and Strength Sapping provide a serious -16 Strength debuff to rednamed bosses, reducing their To-Hit by 8 and their melee damage by 8-12 per hit. (8 for attacks the game treats as a single-handed attack, like most claw attacks, 12 for those treated as two-handed attacks, like most bites).
If the boss fails a save against Life-Devouring (unlikely given how seldom it procs and the fact that most bosses have pretty high Fortitude saves), these debuffs increase to -11 to-hit and 11-17 damage per swing, but this cannot be relied upon.

Overall this weapon fills only a very narrow niche - it helps groups that want to AC tank a rednamed boss reduce that boss's To-Hit. For this narrow purpose, it is best-in-slot. However, it deals so little damage that an axe-and-shield character using this axe will have no hope in holding the boss's aggro. Furthermore, most of the bosses you want to use a tank on have significant DR, and this weapon does not bypass any of those, and most 'must-tank' bosses are purple-named and thus immune to the Weakening effect.


Suggested redesign:
+5
Augmented Base Damage: 2d8
Life-Devouring
Strength Sapping
Incite 15%
Vampirism: Heals the wearer 1d3 damage on each hit.
This would serve the same role for AC tanking, but should have enough threat so that a tank has a reasonable chance to hold aggro and enough damage that it is useful in content where a tank isn't desired. It replaces Weakening (which a lot of things are immune to) with Vampirism, which is also a defensive ability, but one that works against any boss and fits the theme of the weapon.



Beholder Plate Armor/Docent
These armor pieces require significant testing to judge the power level of. On-crit procs like Antimagic Spike are extremely potent to rapier/scimitar wielders. It would be interesting to see if a TWF toon with this armor could neutralise epic Drow casters, for instance, as they generally have pretty low Fortitude saves.



Bow of Sinew
This bow looks awesome at first - +5, enhanced crit range, Seeker 8, Ranged Alacrity and the ability to bypass DR. However, all DPS calculations show it is behind the min level 6 Silver Bow on basically all evil level-appropriate targets except Thrakk Hounds and the second-last boss of Running with the Devils (both of whom have DRs that this bow breaks and the Silver Bow does not).
This is because the Silver Bow has Holy (one of the most powerful weapon modifiers available) and enhanced base damage, and is usually used with +3 Deneith arrows which increases its enhancement bonus, an option not available to this bow.

Suggested redesign:
+5
Augmented Base Damage: 1d19 (deliberately a silly number)
Ranged Alacrity 10%
Stealth Strike
Aligned
Overfocus
(Seeker removed entirely)
Suppressed Power: Crippling Strike (cannot be removed until the next adventure pack in this series)

The 1d19 is unusual, and so fits in a Xoriat-themed pack. The extra 6.5 damage per non-critical hit (compared to the Silver Bow's 1d10+3) makes this a clear upgrade over the Silverbow even once Holy is lost. The utility effects of Stealth Strike and Ranged Alacrity add little to the bow, but will occasionally be useful.



Bracelet of Thaarak
This is an excellent item, and finally is a solid replacement for Chaosguarde for those niche builds that care about AC. Acid Resist 30 (or Exceptional Acid Resist 5) would fit well thematically, but the item is potent without it.



Polycurse Dagger
This item appears interesting, but has really quite derisory DPS, and the 'utility' effect of the Polycurse ability does not offer enough to make up for that.
Against trash, the weapon compares very poorly to a Vorpal - Polycursing a foe is strictly worse than beheading it, and the high To-Hit of this weapon compared to Vorpals is mitigated by the occasional incoming -4 To-Hit curse.
Against bosses, it's a terrible version of a Strength Sapping weapon of Cursespewing. The SSoC will, on average, have a boss cursed and exhausted within 20 hits; the Polycurse dagger will on average take 80.

Suggested Redesign:
I'm going to suggest making this into a DPS weapon that has a modified Polycurse as a utility bonus.

Dagger
Augmented Base Damage: 2d4
+5
Sneak Attack +4
Polycurse (changed): On a Vorpal strike, the foe is hit with one of the following at random (no save): Exhaustion, Bestow Curse, Energy Drain, Limbchopper. Each has an equal chance.
Deception
Curse Vector
Corrosive Salt (as the Shroud proc, 2% proc for ~300 damage over time)

DPS-wise, my version of the weapon is a little behind a Tier 1 Shroud-crafted Holy Rapier - i.e. not good, but not totally derisory. But the extra utility bonuses of a 1.25% chance to Limbchop, Curse, Exhaust or Energy Drain a foe should make it worth considering using.



Scepter of Mad Trickery
This item hits the mark exactly. Potent, with Greater Enchantment Focus and Spell Pen 7 in one package, but with a severe drawback to those that lack the SP for permanent Quicken Spell. It's a powerful item, but one that won't break the game.
I expect to see newly level 20 characters still using this; and being very happy on the day they secure themselves an upgrade from it (likely an Eardweller followed by some other gear swaps).
Love the art.



Quivering Quiver
One of the most disturbing items ever theme-wise . Useful, not overpowered, and the 'generate infinite arrows to vendor' potential problem isn't an issue in practice, although perhaps for safety you may want to consider making the arrows unable to be sold.



Infused Chaosrobe
I haven't got this item to test it properly, but it strikes me as being something designed for a Savant that has two partial offspecs, which will allow you to put three of the four possible procs to good use.
My gut feeling is that the min level 10 Elfcrafted Robe with 'Superior Freeze 6' clickies (and other element analogues) will offer more to the blaster Sorc, as Arcane Lore + Evocation Focus strikes me as better than Lesser Evoc Augment 9. I haven't tested this or run any numbers, it's only a gut feeling.



Living Breastplate
A somewhat decent alternative to the Breastplate of Vol or a random-lootgen +5 Mith BP, for evasion types that care about AC. Still no match for Icy Raiments + level-appropriate AC bracers + Barkskin potions.
Not sure what to recommend here, player AC still requires a major overhaul.
This item will be used as-is, and so needs no changes.



Turbulent Epee
This weapon doesn't do enough damage to be worth using at level 14, nor does it break any important DRs except the Aspect of Cunning and various Iron Golems.
As it stands, this weapon will not be used by players that are geared enough to tackle this new chain.
Adding Aligned would give it some merit as an easily-attained but weaker alternative to a +5 Metalline of Pure Good for the main DR bosses. And what could be more chaotic than a weapon that can't make up its mind what element it is attuned to, what metal it is made of and whether it wants to save the koalas or sacrifice them to its dark masters?



Insanity
This weapon, whilst no paragon of DPS, has some unique and interesting abilities. It will be used by players as-is, although it could possibly go with a base damage upgrade as it currently has no damage enhancing attributes at all. 2d10 won't hurt.
Bewildering will cause a fair few foes to become incapped, but with the changes to bosses in U9, this won't be an issue.



Staff of Fleshshaping
Excellent item. Like the Scepter of Mad Trickery, this is potent, simple, and combines the most important healing item attribute (Superior Devotion 6) with the fun Major Healing Lore and situational but powerful buffs to Harm. I expect to see a lot of level 20 characters running around with this; particularly Clr17/Mnk3 and similar builds that care about remaining centred.
Edit: I don't think this will appeal to geared veterans, however. If you have other twink items such as the upgraded Sora Kell set, or even if you are happy juggling items around, you can easily pass this item up. For new clerics, however, it's great.



The 'upgraded' Epic Cacophonic Verge
As a stat-stick, this is a passable item - Greater Evocation Focus on a one-hander is nice.
As a wand, if the Fort DC on Greater Shout is under 35, it will be near to worthless even with the epic mob saves on the current Live servers. I have the seal and shard of this item, and probably still won't waste an inventory slot carrying the new version unless the DC is around 40.

[bryanmeerkat]

Staff of Fleshshaping
Excellent item. Like the Scepter of Mad Trickery, this is potent, simple, and combines the most important healing item attribute (Superior Devotion 6) with the fun Major Healing Lore and situational but powerful buffs to Harm. I expect to see a lot of level 20 characters running around with this; particularly Clr17/Mnk3 and similar builds that care about remaining centred.

Hi, this item is junk I am afraid . It is easily betted by any superior ardor 6 clickie combined with dps weapon switch out . Major healing lore is muh . Lazy staff is lazy .

Superior Devotion vi is only the most important healing item attribute if you are too lazy to click on an ardor clickie every three minutes .

[sirgog]

Hi, this item is junk I am afraid . It is easily betted by any superior ardor 6 clickie combined with dps weapon switch out . Major healing lore is muh . Lazy staff is lazy .

Superior Devotion vi is only the most important healing item attribute if you are too lazy to click on an ardor clickie every three minutes .

Devotion persists through death; Ardor does not. This often is very important. For this reason I use a Superior Devotion 7 item on my main even though I use the Amrath Ardor belts. Also the swapover to an Ardor weapon takes 3 seconds, during which time you cannot use scrolls - and any spell you cast extends this period by 1 second. Out of combat that is fine, in hectic combats (like the first 10 seconds of the Lieutenant fight in Shroud part 5; or in the middle of fighting Horoth) it isn't.

I use Ardor clickies, but I definitely want to keep something permanent on too. And at the level you get that item, a Sup Dev 6'ed Heal is usually enough for most situations.

Major Healing Lore is mostly fun, but it's not worthless, however. I went out of my way to fit some Healing Lore onto my final gearset, and there are times (particularly when healing quest NPCs or WF barbarians) that it makes a difference.






One more thing to add: This update is sorely missing low-level Savant items. IMO some of these could be added to places like Sorrowdusk, Threnal, and the like. (Actually not Threnal until the quest advancement is fixed to be intuitive). As an example of what a solid Savant-oriented lowbie item might look like:

Talisman of Flame
Amulet slot
Min level 7
Flame Focus: Your Fire spells have +1 DC. (This does not stack with other item effects)
Lesser Flame Augmentation 3: Your Fire spells of level 3 and under get +1 to their effective caster level.
Subtle Spellcasting: Your spells cause 10% less threat.

[Musouka]

While I agree that they are not perfect, they will be fun to toy with. A lot of them could be for flavor builds. I would never consider them for top tier DPS. Making all the weapons base damage better really wont improve the viability by much.

[Raiderone]

The bracers will be a must have on many of my builds...except those with epic bracers.

heck to get toughness away from helmet plus get dodge bonus. win win!

[thewalex]

Beholder Plate Docent
These armor pieces require significant testing to judge the power level of. On-crit procs like Antimagic Spike are extremely potent to rapier/scimitar wielders. It would be interesting to see if a TWF toon with this armor could neutralise epic Drow casters, for instance, as they generally have pretty low Fortitude saves.

It's interesting that the "drawback" of this item is exhaustion when Warforged characters would be immune to exhaustion...

Staff of Fleshshaping
Excellent item. Like the Scepter of Mad Trickery, this is potent, simple, and combines the most important healing item attribute (Superior Devotion 6) with the fun Major Healing Lore and situational but powerful buffs to Harm. I expect to see a lot of level 20 characters running around with this; particularly Clr17/Mnk3 and similar builds that care about remaining centred.

Yeah, while I like the Superior Devotion 6 with the Major Healing Lore, the two-handed quarterstaff approach is a real-turn off for me. I'd rather carry around the Healing Scepter from Invaders at level 12 on my cleric -> Sup Potency 6 Scepter + Gauntlets of Eternity at 14-18 -> Warchanter's Necklace + Gloves + Amrath Clickies at 18-20. Keeping a hand free for scrolls or a shield or another scepter may just be my personal preference though.

[sirgog]

While I agree that they are not perfect, they will be fun to toy with. A lot of them could be for flavor builds. I would never consider them for top tier DPS. Making all the weapons base damage better really wont improve the viability by much.

The thing is, if they have atrocious DPS, noone will ever use them.

Think of Terror, the greatsword from Mindsunder. It has some interesting abilities. Wield it in anything remotely challenging, however (anything tougher than IQ normal), and players that realise you are using it will laugh at you and not invite you back to groups. I've seen exactly that happen 3 or 4 times in the Shroud.

If, on the other hand, it has something that borders on respectable DPS, then players that like the item can use it and feel that they are contributing to a quest. At present, that person has to choose between wielding the fun weapon and being a drag on the party, or using less exciting but more effective weapons like a +4 Shocking Burst Shortsword of Righteousness.

Yeah, while I like the Superior Devotion 6 with the Major Healing Lore, the two-handed quarterstaff approach is a real-turn off for me. I'd rather carry around the Healing Scepter from Invaders at level 12 on my cleric -> Sup Potency 6 Scepter + Gauntlets of Eternity at 14-18 -> Warchanter's Necklace + Gloves + Amrath Clickies at 18-20. Keeping a hand free for scrolls or a shield or another scepter may just be my personal preference though.

That's quite a bit of gear a first-lifer won't have, however. IMO this is a great item for a first-life toon to use until they get better (probably until they get an Amrath Sup Pot 6 necklace which may be at level 19 or 20). Especially if they want to remain centered on a clonk.

[thewalex]

That's quite a bit of gear a first-lifer won't have, however. IMO this is a great item for a first-life toon to use until they get better (probably until they get an Amrath Sup Pot 6 necklace which may be at level 19 or 20). Especially if they want to remain centered on a clonk.

Agreed there. I was lucky enough to have an Improved Devotion IV scepter passed down from a friend to use for levels 4-9 on my first toon (a cleric) and then get a pair of the Gauntlets on my 5th run of Reaver's Fate.

If this is an end reward that drops with the same high frequency of the Chronoscope end loot or the Attack on Stormreach chain reward items, I absolutely agree with you that it will be a good item have for new clerics and favored souls.

[sirgog]

Agreed there. I was lucky enough to have an Improved Devotion IV scepter passed down from a friend to use for levels 4-9 on my first toon (a cleric) and then get a pair of the Gauntlets on my 5th run of Reaver's Fate.

If this is an end reward that drops with the same high frequency of the Chronoscope end loot or the Attack on Stormreach chain reward items, I absolutely agree with you that it will be a good item have for new clerics and favored souls.

Most of the items seem to be 50%+ drop rates as full chain rewards, but some of them are specific to a quest. In the Red Fens these sorts of items, like the Shatterbow, have 10/16/24% drop rates (norm/hard/elite). I'd not be surprised if this is the case here.

[Angelus_dead]

It's interesting that the "drawback" of this item is exhaustion when Warforged characters would be immune to exhaustion...

The drawback for Bracers of the Demon's Consort is negative levels, and Warforged characters would be immune to negative levels.

[Valakai]

Bracelet is the only one I will go and grab. The Chaos Robe seems like it might have potential but I think there likely are better ones around. It might have its uses to certain builds I guess.

Not terribly impressed by the named loot in this pack unfortunately.

[sirgog]

The drawback for Bracers of the Demon's Consort is negative levels, and Warforged characters would be immune to negative levels.

Yeah, but that set of bracers aren't an item that only Warforged are capable of equipping.

Maybe a 60 second -6 debuff to Str and Dex might work a little better here.

[Edyit76]

The drawback for Bracers of the Demon's Consort is negative levels, and Warforged characters would be immune to negative levels.

Warforged, as far as i've seen get neg lvl'd by these bracers. Happens to a guildie all the time.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Warforged, as far as i've seen get neg lvl'd by these bracers. Happens to a guildie all the time.

confirmed, used to use them on my WF FvS until i got myself some bracers of the glacier & never looked back. It's reasonable to assume that the exhaustion from the docent will be an exception to the normal WF immunities too.

[elujin]

my pally skills are a bit rusty
could epee be used on a pally for dr breaking ?

[Angelus_dead]

my pally skills are a bit rusty
could epee be used on a pally for dr breaking ?

It would work, but that'd be dumb. Paladins cast Holy Sword, and done.

Against golems the elemental burst is a penalty, because golems are healed+buffed by one of the energy types.

[thewalex]

confirmed, used to use them on my WF FvS until i got myself some bracers of the glacier & never looked back. It's reasonable to assume that the exhaustion from the docent will be an exception to the normal WF immunities too.

I think Shade's testing on Lamania revealed that his WF characters suffered no ill effects. Still a chance of it being changed before it goes live. It should be an exception to WF immunities if it is the only drawback to a WF exclusive item, haha.

[Egeus]

Will be interesting to see what happens to the Chaos Robe when upgraded. The "Spell Turmoil" MIGHT be useful if it's a decent proc rate, but clickies are more reliable, fairly easy to get, and guaranteed to get the right damage type.