Healing with Scrolls Question

[Siro]

A set of +5 thieves tools cost around 500 plat on the AH which is the only place they can be bought - so not extremely cheap when you don't have a lot of plat and don't have a higher level bank ahem toon to help out. Yes tools have 50 uses, but then so does a brand new wand, and the lower level wands don't cost anywhere near 500 plat.

I have never seen a quest or quest chain with 50+ traps. I have seen quests and quest chains that run through an entire backpack slot worth of cure light wands.

That being said, this:

Besides, my rogue also carries around 25 rez scrolls, 25 crit and serious scrolls, 50 or so cure light, and a couple of wands, plus a ton of pots for self use. As a rogue I am not the party healer, but if the group has split up or there is only one healer in a raid, I can do my bit to help out.

is great.

[Fenrisulven6]

Karma. My clerics are all for newbie puggers, and they all carry a set of +5 thieves tools.

because, if I had a pot for every time the rogue said "****! I forgot to..."

[EatSmart]

Bear in mind this is personal opinion, not absolute gospel:

I used to keep a stack of 100 heal scrolls and 20 raise dead scrolls on me at all times while levelling. Most quests in the game should be completeable at level without resorting to consumables. The supplies where there for dealing with "surprises". For a radiant, post level 12 I dont see the need for wand healing. The aura is efficient enough for topping off between fights, and Hjeal from SP or scrolls is an extremely efficient spell that should cover your needs in combat.

It is cheaper to buy scrolls than it is to buy SP pots from the AH, so that's a good argument for carrying scrolls. I personally dont use scrolls much these days at 20 (I think my stack got handed to a bard at some point, who didnt hand them back). When you're first learning raids and gearing up, you are probably going to need them a lot.

If you're running with experienced people at low level I'd be surprised if they dont carry 100+ cure serious wounds potions, and fully capable of getting their own heals most of the time.

[Chette]

There is no reason for you to use wands or scrolls until you have access to heal scrolls. By heal scrolls I mean scrolls of the spell heal, which you don't get until level 11.

Any character who berates you for not wasting your money on wands and scrolls when they could just as easily drink a potion, is an idiot and is not worth your time. Be glad you found out who this guy was so that you can squelch him.

Chronoscope at level is fairly difficult for non-geared characters. This is the first time that most people are involved in a raid group, and is also, inconveniently, the first time that you see a lot of significant AOE damage. However, at level, none of the divines have access to any mass-cure spells (spells that heal the whole party at one) except possibly the radiant burst for a level 6 cleric, but that requires you to be standing with the melees, which may not be a good idea if you don't have quicken and a decent amount of HP. To succeed the melees absolutely have to be willing to drink their own potions, as it's extremely difficult for whoever is healing the group to keep 10 different people up, one spell at a time.

[thewalex]

Abridged Version: I was on my lvl 5 cleric (non-TR, no twinked gear, poor and still saving for some decent gear). I was the only healer present. The party wiped.

That was all I needed to read. It's been my experience (as a healer) that a party should discuss tactics and make sure he/she is okay with the additional resource drain before they are expected solo heal a raid, especially if said healer is a lower level than the majority of the party. My first cleric was quite poor (about major 3-5 pots at any given time, and a stack of 100 heal scrolls, 100 CMW, Mass scrolls, and resurrection scrolls would put a sizable dent in my coin) and I didn't always have the resources to solo heal, so I appreciated the heads up. I suspect the wipe was probably more carelessness and zerging, thus expecting the healer to cover the additional slack.

[MeToo]

In general, none. Just use what you find in chests or trade collectibles for and maybe the odd mnemonic potion you loot if it's going to make the difference on a near-failure. I hoarded wands and the few odd heal scrolls that dropped on my cleric and favored soul all the way up to level 20, waiting for the day they'd be needed. I might as well have used them up along the way because in any group that deserved to complete, careful spell point management and usage of things like radiant servant and unyielding sovereignty were enough to get the job done.

Most quests are designed to be completed with some tactics, efficient blue bar usage (power or wizardry items at start, ardor clickies and such) and regenerating abilities like sovereign host and radiant burst which you won't have for at least another character level or so. Chrono seems to be exceptionally tough on an untwinked, underlevel cleric even if the group is using good tactics but I still wouldn't expect any cleric to burn through resources to keep me alive.

I hear Update 9 is going to make some of those low level, single target cures cheaper. While you don't officially have any mass cures yet, at level 5, you have access to mass aid which can almost be used as a cheap mass cure in situations where everybody is taking damage at once.

Heal scrolls at high levels can be fairly efficient... for bards. They have the haggle to buy them cheaper and the better enhancements to amplify them. They are still not cheap though and I never assume another player is going to finance my runs. I never got much mileage out of scrolls on my cleric or favored soul since a group that was going to complete usually did so without me having to use them and a group that needed me to go beyond my blue bar and other resources, wasn't going to be saved by even 100 Heal scrolls. Sure, I'll use potions or maybe scrolls if I'm new to the quest/raid and haven't learned what the appropriate buffs and shrine spacing is yet but I won't use them to make up for others' reckless play.

It gets much better the higher you go, especially when you get to use radiant burst and auras at later levels. It sounds like you're on the right track already and don't sweat it when a group fails to work together.

Happy Adventuring!

[Cardtrick]

A set of +5 thieves tools cost around 500 plat on the AH which is the only place they can be bought - so not extremely cheap when you don't have a lot of plat and don't have a higher level bank ahem toon to help out. Yes tools have 50 uses, but then so does a brand new wand, and the lower level wands don't cost anywhere near 500 plat.

Besides, my rogue also carries around 25 rez scrolls, 25 crit and serious scrolls, 50 or so cure light, and a couple of wands, plus a ton of pots for self use. As a rogue I am not the party healer, but if the group has split up or there is only one healer in a raid, I can do my bit to help out.

Why on earth would you need +5 tools? The +4 tools from the Free Agents vendor are far, far cheaper and nearly as good. Even plain +1 tools should be enough most of the time. How often do you really need the maximum possible disable device bonus? The elite Cabal chest, epics, and doing elite quests over your level. If you're doing elite quessts over your level, you should expect to spend some plat on resources (it's nothing compared to what your cleric is paying). But by the time you're doing elite Cabal or epics, you should have +4 and +5 thieves tools coming out your ears from chest pulls. I never buy thieves tools anymore. I actually sell quite a few of them, because I pull more than I can use (plus a lot of people in high level quests and epics re-assign their pulls in chests to the party rogue, so I end up with even more).

All that aside, though, 500 plat for 50 tools is much cheaper than Heal or Resurrection scrolls. That's 2 or 3 scrolls for a character with low haggle, like most clerics. And clerics need to heal more than rogues need to pick locks or disable devices.

[Sartax]

Well, I might be showing my "newness" to the full capacity of a healer, but i'm lvl 18 now (all cleric levels) and took Radiant servant. I still have 4-5 wands on me from when i was 5-12ish; but really have not used a wand ever since I got RS.

I tried Hound of X the other day and things went bad - that was the first time I had to use wands but not sure any amount of wands or scrolls would have helped with how things went there.

I will look into scrolls though - never really thought about hoarding them (then again, have not been in the position to where i've needed them yet).

Generally, with my experience (cleric is my 2nd toon), players learn around levels 7-10 what they can and can't do anymore, and dying alot helps them do that. If you have a Barb or Fighter or Sorcerer etc that just want to fly off and try to take on the world ahead of your party, don't waste your SP or consumables on them - have a chat with them after the 2nd or so time it happens and generally they turn around. My Cleric has leveled with PU groups solely as my Guild has gone innactive; and i've been pretty lucky to get good PU parties for the most part.

[Nyvn]

Well, I might be showing my "newness" to the full capacity of a healer, but i'm lvl 18 now (all cleric levels) and took Radiant servant. I still have 4-5 wands on me from when i was 5-12ish; but really have not used a wand ever since I got RS.

I tried Hound of X the other day and things went bad - that was the first time I had to use wands but not sure any amount of wands or scrolls would have helped with how things went there.

I will look into scrolls though - never really thought about hoarding them (then again, have not been in the position to where i've needed them yet).

Generally, with my experience (cleric is my 2nd toon), players learn around levels 7-10 what they can and can't do anymore, and dying alot helps them do that. If you have a Barb or Fighter or Sorcerer etc that just want to fly off and try to take on the world ahead of your party, don't waste your SP or consumables on them - have a chat with them after the 2nd or so time it happens and generally they turn around. My Cleric has leveled with PU groups solely as my Guild has gone innactive; and i've been pretty lucky to get good PU parties for the most part.

If you're running raids you should look into buying Heal Scrolls.

[Aurora_nyx]

Other then raise scrolls, I can't say I ever carried any on Cari as I leveled her up. I tend to keep a few pots for those runs that are hectic, but I am pretty stingy with them too.

May be a jaded healer and all that, but my opinion is if you run an at level raid with one healer (esp. Chrono) where everyone is allover, expect a death or two. As the healer, I won't chase after you to heal you if you are zerging. If you like to zerg, I have a special place in my backpack for you to camp out in for a while

It's hit or miss with good pugs. I ran one shroud run on hard, went thru a stack of 15 rez and 5 majors... not even a thank you for helping them complete a run I was ddooring from. Got convinced to run another shroud, still ticked about the last one, and mentioned what happened and had the leader give me 7 mana pots and plat for rez scrolls (yes I did end up using them all on his run, but it was the thought behind the action that mattered)

I find scrolls a pita to use, which is likely why I don't use them for more then the rez. Wands are slow too, but I have used them tho mostly on Auro...but to each their own. I knew a cleric that only used scrolls... and I used to laugh because her blue bar never moved...made no sense to me at all

I have all my rules for healing on Caris bio, and am pretty up front about my zerg/heal policy. I'd just say at the beginning of the run that you have x# pots, you have x wands etc... decide what you are willing to use on the party and that is it. My rule of thumb is usually 2 pot max... only in cases of my own stupidity (shroud run above) and groups with friends will I go over that

[Alektronic]

>snip< although he was also berating the casters for not throwing up firewalls >/snip<

Firewall in chronoscope? Doesn't matter if ur lvl 5 or 20 trying to cast firewall in chronoscope, you get the same results... (mostly fire immune mobs).

Point: you probably ran in an unexperienced/under-geared/ill-prepared group. Hate to say it, but in those kinds of situations, 9999 heal scrolls = 0 heal scrolls. That being said, carry a few wands (ymmv depending on sp management) until lvl 11, when you can carry a stack of heal scrolls. I always make a judgment call before breaking into consumables: "Will me consuming this item make this raid/quest any more likely to succeed? Or have we hit the Point of No Return?"

[erikbozelie]

i never carry more then 50 heal scrolls because i just do not have the carry capacity.
*smacks face into desk*

i only use heal scrolls in an hate tank situation in tod, maybe vod.

if i need to use scrolls anywhere else, the party is extremely gimped.

if in any case i do run out of spell points sooner. if its my own fault, i use an pot
if its not, i just say i am out of juice.

[Habreno]

I carry 2 stacks of Heal Scrolls and have a stack and a half of Rez Scrolls. Seriously, the things are coming out of my ears... and I don't use many of them. I have Raise Dead as a clicky on my GS goggles (and no, I did not gimp the craft for it; I went with skills I can use and it was what I could get, so it's my bonus for a smart build and not something I'm regretting) and 3 clicks of Raise Dead from the Subterranne Coins (a 2x click trinket and a 1x click trinket) and that's before I even need to touch my SP or my PP. I keep myself maxed for casting heals, as that's what I do a lot in raids, but scrolls are not quite needed; I'll use them before memonics, though.

At your level you are fine without scrolls. When you're high enough to no-fail a Heal scroll, carry some IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO. Likewise, carry Raise Dead scrolls WHEN YOU CAN AFFORD TO. Do not carry them at Level 7 just because you can use them. But if someone gives you a scroll, do use it when you need to, and preferably in that run, rather than saving it, unless you don't need it.

[PopeJual]

At all levels. Except that players need to bring the scrolls they want you to use on them, something they tend to forget.

I'm always amused at the players who whine that the 7th lvl cleric doesn't carry res scrolls. Because there's nothing stopping them from bringing them too.

I'm in the habit of carrying a set of 50 +5 lockpicks, a stack of Heal scrolls and a short stack of Raise Dead scrolls on every charcter that is near the correct level to use them even if I don't have any UMD - exactly because I don't want to count on someone else to have them when they might not.

That said, if you're going into a quest where you think you might run out of spell points, having a stack of Heal scrolls and a small stack of Raise Dead scrolls *available* on your Cleric or FvS would be a good idea even if you don't end up using them in most quests. If you think that you might be willing to burn a Mnemonic potion in the quest, then you'll get more bang for your buck by just slinging Heal scrolls at people instead of spending 10,000 plat or more on a few hundred spell points.

[Jaysensen]

In a group with decent people, at any time, you can say "hey, I'm new, this is my first healer" and you'll be buried beneath a mountain of Heal scrolls traded to you. Well not at any time, you can only say it once.

This. Ask for what you need. "Im new to this server and Im accepting donations." Youll be surprised at the generosity of some players.

[PNellesen]

Now that I'm dipping my toes into healing Epics (just the easier House P and D epics so far) I find having a decent stack of Heal and Res scrolls comes in handy for those situations where the party doesn't have the greatest HPs or DPs, or the mobs are making their saves on Stun/Hold/Disco Ball more than you would like them to (not to mention what's coming in U9 ). I'm pretty stingy with my Major pots, and only use them when all other avenues have been exhausted and I think they'll make a difference in the outcome (or if I'm doing a guild run and know I'll get them back). That said, if someone hands me a couple at the start of the quest, I make sure to use them if needed. (I would be pretty ticked off if I were on one of my melees, gave the healer a couple pots at the start, and they let the party wipe without using either of them...) I have enough plat now that a stack of 50 Heal and Res scrolls barely makes a dent, and if I want to replenish I'll run through the IQ 5 times and vendor off the junk I get there.

[xSeverinax]

Why on earth would you need +5 tools? The +4 tools from the Free Agents vendor are far, far cheaper and nearly as good. Even plain +1 tools should be enough most of the time. How often do you really need the maximum possible disable device bonus? The elite Cabal chest, epics, and doing elite quests over your level. If you're doing elite quessts over your level, you should expect to spend some plat on resources (it's nothing compared to what your cleric is paying). But by the time you're doing elite Cabal or epics, you should have +4 and +5 thieves tools coming out your ears from chest pulls. I never buy thieves tools anymore. I actually sell quite a few of them, because I pull more than I can use (plus a lot of people in high level quests and epics re-assign their pulls in chests to the party rogue, so I end up with even more).

All that aside, though, 500 plat for 50 tools is much cheaper than Heal or Resurrection scrolls. That's 2 or 3 scrolls for a character with low haggle, like most clerics. And clerics need to heal more than rogues need to pick locks or disable devices.

I don't need to buy tools any more either, but in the mid levels I did. I should also explain that I have only been playing DDO for 4 months, it is my very first MMO and I am working hard to understand how things work. My main toon I capped at lvl 20 about 2 months ago was a cleric so I know how expensive things are for pots and scrolls and stuff. This is my first attempt at a rogue and I was hitting VoD and HoX on elite at lvl 16, I was 4 levels lower than the quest level - so yes, I really did need those +5's for the VoD traps!

I am fortunate to be in a very good guild that has really helped me to learn and understand character builds and skill levels etc, helped me with crafting and understanding how the game mechanics work. That is part of the reason that I have almost capped 2 toons in 4 months (my rogue is lvl 19 now) and have consistently disabled traps and butchered mobs -assassin 3 build with a dd of 60, should hit 65 at lvl 20 and spot search 55/53 which is enough for epics when I hit 20.

[Atree]

i never carry more then 50 heal scrolls because i just do not have the carry capacity.
*smacks face into desk*

i only use heal scrolls in an hate tank situation in tod, maybe vod.

if i need to use scrolls anywhere else, the party is extremely gimped.

if in any case i do run out of spell points sooner. if its my own fault, i use an pot
if its not, i just say i am out of juice.

That is pretty much how I run things.

In my first life I probably used less than 100 heal scrolls and 10 majors in total. And most of those were healing the tank in elite ToD,saving the blue bar in case something went wrong.

In a well played party, even one populated by gimpy builds, no consumables are needed to complete unless something goes horribly wrong (or the lag monster rears its ugly head). In a failtrain, such as you describe in the OP, no amount of consumables is going to save the day.

I tend to start carrying scrolls when I start raiding (Lvl 13+ for me). I only carry raise-dead and heal scrolls since my inventory space is chronically limited (if I carried more scrolls I might not have enough room for the soul stones)

[scampb]

In a group with decent people, at any time, you can say &quot;hey, I'm new, this is my first healer&quot; and you'll be buried beneath a mountain of Heal scrolls traded to you. Well not at any time, you can only say it once.

LOL. Well I have yet to experience this. I have many toons in the higher levels. I have recently rolled another cleric, yes another, and she is level 7 right now. I have not put a lot of money into her until I decide I want to keep her. I tell every party I am in that it is my first healer and to be patient and not to run off as I am still learning the nuances of the character. Nobody knows that I have other toons to fund this one and I have not yet been offered any resources as a thanks. Don't get me wrong, I am not expecting them to since I have more than enough plat on my other characters to twink my cleric if and when I choose to. I am just responding to your comment.