Sneak Attack: Should it even be considered?

[Chai]

We dont determine what counts and what doesnt, the game does. My melee toons get their SA damage, regardless if you want to include it on your spreadsheet.

[katana_one]

I love my DPS. And I'm probably considered gimped and undergeared compared to many. I can only imagine how much more effective it can be if properly geared and built.

And let's not even talk about Assassin II …

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

I won't flame this thread, but OP you truly have to consider that without information, making assumptions is quite a flat gesture. That's like saying a sorc is pointless because they can't self-heal.

Roll one, you might like it.

My assassin, Cyrindaa? Yeah she's kickin 12d6 +12 sneak attack damage BEFORE weapon allotments and fluff procs.
PER SWING.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[Illiain]

Okay I'll play along. Let's not consider base damage DPS either then.

+1 I like where you're going with this.

Lets also not consider the increased crit modifier from PrEs, because raid boss fortification stops 50% crits. So crits shouldn't be counted as DPS too, because they obviously don't happen.

[stille_nacht]

+1 I like where you're going with this.

Lets also not consider the increased crit modifier from PrEs, because raid boss fortification stops 50% crits. So crits shouldn't be counted as DPS too, because they obviously don't happen.

and attack speed boosts too, because they run out, and you only get like, 5 so they barely ever happen, that too

[Quarterling]

Yes it is.

100% chance to sneak attack a mob that is not aggroed on you, or blind.

Trash will be blind
Raid Bosses will be on a tank, and can be diploed.
Epic Red names can be diploed, and could have a dedicated tank.

Radiance II rapier.

Diplomacy.

And you'd be wrong.

I think you should roll a rogue before you say that their main form of offensive power "almost never works".

It's SITUATIONAL damage, but that situation is so easy to maintain. It's a misleading term.

I didn't even have to rogue-rage, this guy gave all the facts for me.

+1 to you Qez

[Satinavian]

To get an impression, how often sneak attack counts do the following:

Take a large number of kill counts of a wide range of quests and see, how the Rogue compares to a Fighter or Barb.

Then take kill counts of several some all-undead-quests with the same group. Compare again.

See a difference ? -> That is the amount of sneak

[Alerax]

got to be trolling. Noone that actually reads forums would post something so off the wall, lol.

[dkyle]

Electrical damage doesn't work on some enemies, and even sometimes heals enemies.

Therefore, LitIIs hardly ever work, and can even hurt you. We should not consider them as viable weapons.

[BrightAsh]

got to be trolling. Noone that actually reads forums would post something so off the wall, lol.

I think OP is for real..

As we take a journey into the deeper psyche of Boromirs, we see the unsurmountable urge to play a rogue. Yet he is afraid to admit it, rightfully so for everyone who onces played a rogue felt the negativity with which they are glanced upon. Rogues are fairly common regarded as lesser players and have to give their utmost to prove themselfs worthy players on the field of battle. Most likely Boromirs fears being regarded the same. Here he is looking for confirmation and comfort at the same time, to roll a rogue and he should. And what do we do? Instead of support and a comforting shoulder, we laugh at him?All i can say is: Boromirs, feel liberated when you roll a rogue and end up at the top of the kill chart 9 out of 10 times. Then gloat over it in silence and feel sorry for the ignorant, as we feel sorry for your statement now. You are welcome in our roguey midst, join us.

That or he was just really off with his last roguebuild

[Boromirs]

Ok then, my next question... were I to go Rogue , Rad II Scimmy or Lit II Khopesh + Rad Cloak/Rad DT?

[Cauthey]

people tend to make charts with and without sneak attack

Do you have a chart that validates and depicts that tendancy?

[KingOfCheese]

Ok then, my next question... were I to go Rogue , Rad II Scimmy or Lit II Khopesh + Rad Cloak/Rad DT?

My final gearing is shown here.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309669

I prefer radiance on weapons rather than gear because there are situations where people don't want enemies blinded (blinded devils move too much). Radiance weapons give a lot more control over who gets blinded. So I'd personally choose a RadII scimmy (or two). Having radiance on weapons and gear will maximize the blinding--but the weapon blinding happens so fast anyway (with a 15-20 crit range weapon), speed of blinding is not an issue.

I prefer LitII kopeshes as my main dps weapons. For high fort bosses and in other instances, I'll switch to something else (minII, metalline pure good--eventually update 9 crafted stuff).

[dkyle]

Ok then, my next question... were I to go Rogue , Rad II Scimmy or Lit II Khopesh + Rad Cloak/Rad DT?

I wouldn't go Scimmy on a Rogue. Rapier is a better choice, since Rogues get proficiency in it. Scimmy just doesn't add enough to warrant spending a feat, or splashing.

But overall, I would go Khopesh. Against trash, LitII in main hand, RadII in offhand. Blindness won't proc quite as often as a Rapier, but still pretty quickly. I'd give up a little trash-killing potency in favor of a little extra boss-killing potency.

Against bosses, dual LitII, or dual MinII, as appropriate.

Radiance guard is nice, but isn't very reliable. You'll blind them with weapons much faster than they'll blind themselves on your guard.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My rogue doesn't even have a raidnace wep, and I almost always get SA damage. But then I am far better then most players about not getting agro.

I will admost that it is dificult to quantify reliabe SA damage into DPS calcs.
But actually I think all DPS calcs do not account for many, many variables. Epsecially those that try to show how bad ranged DPS is.

Epics and raid bosses. Thiose are the only two common situations where something stays alive long enough to agro on my Rogue, once she starts stabbing him in the back.

And then I have Diplo. I can turn him right back around and get more SAs in. (although this has been unreliable lately...either bugged or something that has made it less useful than before.)

Or, since I'm a Dex Rogue, and so much of my DPS comes from SA damage, if I do get agro, it doesn't last long, because then I am no longer doing the highest DPS, and the monster will change to someone else who is.....then I get SAs all over again...

ANyway, do I get SA damage with literally every attack, all the time? No.
Does it matter, since everything I SA dies quickly? Nope!

Of course the bigger question is: do I really care about DPS numbers on a spreadsheet? No in the least.

I know what my Rogue can do in-game. And I know what I can't do too.
If I could do it all, why would I bother bring that Barbarian with me?

[Doganpc]

Off-Topic but if you're going to do the math for your amazing DPS... i'd like to see the numbers with and without sneak attack. Cause in my experience the one doing amazing DPS tends to pull aggro nullifying the sneak attack portion. I'm not saying its useless, but I would like to see the difference between those first few strikes and the killing blows (cause by then i'm sure the mob is onto you).

Dogan
Or dead.

[Thrudh]

I think rogues especially like to boast about their supposed DPS. But really, most of it is coming from the fact that they sneak attack. Sneak attack is just not dependable an attack form to be calculated into the D.P.S. equation. It almost never works on "regular" mobs during quests and for bosses (sure if you can maintain no-threat for the duration of the fight) it works some of the time. Really, I think rogues and sneak attack in general is a bit exaggerated. What do you think about sneak attack?

Radiance II on trash...

Tanks on raid bosses hold the aggro (or bosses with random aggro)

Sneak attack is almost always working.

Do you post things that are incorrect on purpose? Almost every single post you've ever made about game mechanics has been wrong. You never ask it as a question either... It's always stated as fact, but wrong.

[Thrudh]

Ok then, my next question... were I to go Rogue , Rad II Scimmy or Lit II Khopesh + Rad Cloak/Rad DT?

Rad II Scimmy AND Lit II Khopesh... Don't depend on guards... A single Rad II scimitar or Rad II rapier makes a huge difference for a rogue...

[Looonatic]

In addition to the excellent ways people have mentioned to maximize the occurrence of sneak attack damage, I have another simple way of guaranteeing that the party rogue will always deal sneak attack damage:

Have two rogues in the party.

[Darkrok]

I've got a toon similar to HHHH build that I just rolled up to test it out for a possible fighter past life.

Running around at level 4 with just the airship flaming handwraps so it's easy for me to tell if I was getting the korthos set bonus sneak damage + halfling guile damage (gave me a third number that was always 4). Now, given the amount of sneak damage I receive versus regular damage, my high ac, my large number of cure pots I had on me, when I ran to the first quest on that toon (a hard Irestone) I was going out of my way to try and get agro. Running in first whenever possible, tagging guys on the way to the casters, etc.

I saw sneak damage more often than I didn't see it. And that's with trying to get agro.

Truth is that first-in agro is a powerful tool. If someone else manages to get proximity agro before you, you're probably going to kill the thing before you strip that agro.

So long story short...if you're not getting sneak damage you're doing it wrong.