More balance in weapons

**Requiro** · 04-06-2011, 08:52 PM

Everyone know that weapons in DDO is not balance. I spend some time testing base weapon damage to made this proposal. I hope that this suggestion will help improve underpowered weapons in DDO.

At the beginning some facts:

From math we know that:

Rule No.1 – Critical Threat Range / Damage

20/x2 – the worst bonus
20/x3 = 19-20/x2
20/x4 = 18-20/x2
20/x5 = 17-20/x2 = 19-20/x3
20/x6 = 16-20/x2
20/x7 = 15-20/x2 = 18-20/x3 = 19-20/x4
ect.
First exception: Seeker ability – less damage with 20/x? weapon then equal 1?-20/x? weapon
Second exception: Alignment burst - less damage with 20/x? weapon then equal 1?-20/x? weapon

Rule No.2 – Base damage

With higher static bonus damage base damage become more meaningless
The worst base damage ( but with extreme high static bonus damage) with one step higher critical threat range can be more powerful then the best base damage with one step lower critical threat range
Example: 1d4 + 46 19-20/x2 is better then 2d6 + 46 20/x2 (both with Improve Critical feat)

Facts:

Khopesh is the best weapon in the DDO.
Shuriken is the worst thrown weapon in the DDO.
Shortbow / Composite shortbow are the worst ranged weapon in the DDO.

Some (my) assumptions

Simple Weapons sould be the weaker one, because everyone can grab them (no difficult)
Martial Weapons should be better them Simple but less powerful then Exotic because you must spend feat slot or get at least 1 level with full BAB class (moderate difficult)
Exotic Weapons should be the most powerful because you must use feat slot or be special race / class (most difficult)
Smaller version of ranged weapon is more accurate (you can aim more easy), that why they should posses inherent +1 to-hit stacking ability.
Any Bludgeoning weapon have 5% chance to stunt moob with critical hit, because of their unique construction.
(but)Probably Turbine don’t add inherent bonus to the weapons

My suggestion:

Exotic weapons:
- Kama: 1d6 20/x4 or 1d8+1 19-20/x2
- Bastard sword: 2d4+1 18-20/x2
- Dwarven axe: 1d10 20/x4
- Khopesh: 1d6 19-20/x3
- Great crossbow: 2d6+1 19-20/x2
- Repeating heavy crossbow – fix the bug
- Repeating light crossbow – fix the bug
- Shuriken: 1d2 20/x2 – you shoot always two shuriken at once

Martial Weapons:
- Handaxe: 1d8 20/x3
- Light hammer: 1d6 20/x3
- Shortsword: 1d6+1 19-20/x2
- Battleaxe: 1d10 20/x3
- Heavy pick: 1d8 20/x4
- Longsword: 1d8+2 19-20/x2
- Warhammer: 1d10 20/x3
- Greatclub: 2d4+1 20/x3
- Maul: 1d10 19-20/x2
- Greatsword: 2d6+1 19-20/x2
- Shortbow: 1d6+1 20/x3
- Longbow: 1d8+2 20/x3
- Composite bows: add half str bonus to dmg (don’t stack with Bow Str feat)
- Throwing axe: 1d6 20/x3
- Throwing hammer: 1d4 19-20/x2

Simple Weapons:
- Light mace: 1d4+1 20/x2
- Sickle: 1d4 20/x3
- Club: 1d8 20/x2
- Heavy mace: 1d6 20/x3
- Morningstar: 1d6 19-20/x2
- Quarterstaff: 1d6 20/x3
- Dart: 1d4+1 20/x2
- Throwing dagger: 1d3 19-20/x2

My proposition for new weapons:

Exotic weapons:
- Scythe (THW, slashing): 2d4 20/x5
- Spiked Chain (THW, piercing): 2d8+1 18-20/x2

The main problem is that all of that suggestion are completely different then DnD weapons. And I don’t like it

On the other hand DnD was never about balance, but for fun. In DDO balance in much more require…

**donfilibuster** · 04-07-2011, 02:23 AM

Good breakdown, streamlined the tweaks and cover all weapons.
Also fresh and different from the usual 'uncommon weapon love' threads.

Some toughts, noting some of the things you labeled as assumptions:

About crits

It is correct that the high crit weapons give more damage in the long run than the weapons with larger base damage.
However, the increase is limited to the 5%-30% and x2-x4 range and both are inversely proportional.

With improved crit these are the only available combinations: 30% x2 = 26. 20% x2 = 24. 10% x3 = 24. 10% x4 = 26.
Without improved crit: 15% x2 = 23. 10% x2 = 22. 5% x3 = 22. 5% x4 = 23.
Note how these are balanced to be one of two amounts. Your weapon can only have 22 to 26 times the damage over 20 rolls.
This is before weapon abilities like bursts or maiming come into play of course.

Which type correspond to a weapon is not given by the size, but by the kind of weapon.
Single edged are 15%, Double edged are 10%, Hacking is x3, Piking is x4.
So rapiers are swift, swords are efficient, axes are brute, picks are vicious.
There's a whole background of fighting techniques behind these types, based on momentum and weight.

About Size

The size as a classification of d&d weapons in both ddo and pnp is not a function of ease of use nor speed.
The classification of size is a measure of effort, sorted by light, one-handed and two-handed.
Wielding two-handed let put your str behind the blow, both light and one handed can be wield in the offhand but at half str.
But you cannot wield a pair of one-hand weapons in both hands, this is an advantage of the light weapons.
Furthermore the light weapons can be used in situations like grapple, which is not something you do in DDO.

The distinction in DDO is simplified, but in the richer system the line is blurred, you can wield a smaller weapon for greater strenght if needed yet offer no advantage over the actual larger weapon.
e.g. a shortsword has no advantage over a longsword with the main hand, yet you can do so.
And a longsword wield in two hands has no advantage than a greatsword, yet you can do so (not in ddo).
It's just a matter of convenience, allowing you to switch from TWF to THF as needed, with versatility.

The point is the smaller weapons are not neccessarily easier or faster to use, which is the reasoning many people give when suggesting bonuses to the underused weapons.
Even in 2e when you had initiative speed per weapon it didn't raise your attack rate, only the initiative order.

If you go to RL a knife may seem faster than a big sword but a well trained swordsman gets quite speedy and the larger blade has more momentum.
An axeman, mason or miner can keep up with a swordsman but badly trained the momentum loss would kill them.
A knife or a foil, however, can be wield with sleight of hand alone, whereas to swing a sword you need enough muscle to swing a chair.
It's all in the technique, like i mention in the first point, they are different styles, but not too different in terms of effectivity.
I bet this was some of the reasoning to make all weapons share the same attack rate, as is in 3e.

About Stun

The bludgeon has been candidate for stun in many players suggestion, and seems fine.
One has to note that the stun was brought to ddo so the pnp only had mention of trip and disarm bonuses.
And then the ddo weapons are simplified so there's no trip bonus in any of them, let alone disarm, sunder, stun.
I would like to see this aspect of weapons implemented so if there's bonus to trip there can be with stun as well.

About the revamp

As for the suggestions on each weapon, it looks to me you went through the list by size alone.
There's only mention of the proficiency classification, but the type classification is missing entirely.
This is what makes the selection varied, and the most obvious cause of redundant weapons.
There's gonna be one of each slash/pierce/bludgen of light/1h/2h of simple/martial/exotic.

But the weapon variety has other advantages, not just damage alone, it's just that a lot of those are gone from ddo.
The richer weapons system had the DC bonuses, the multi-type weapons, the 1h-or-2h weapons, double weapons, reach weapons, range, etc.
The loss of a lot of this makes the weapons table dull and cause a lot of people to ask for weapon love.
This is not a bad thing to ask for, it can be improved by either sharing the love or coding more attack types all the same.

If you ask for toughts on the rework of the weapon damages with increased crit range or threat, upon review, i still prefer to just add simpler bonuses to DC or other distinctive advantages rather than add damage increases.
Here's one such thread about uncommon weapon love: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=307969

As for ease of implementation, as far as tweaks go, upping the damage is easier to implement than adding DC bonuses, which is in turn easier than adding new attack features like multi-type damage, proper 2h usage, double weapons. But that's only if the premise is going for the easier route, if we were to had unlimited dev time it would be better to go for the more complex features and regain some of that versatility that were in PnP.

Sure the real time combat makes it a less of a need, putting the focus of the combat on your toon's and not in the actual attacks.
But since at some point it becomes search and destroy and all you do is autoattack then some variety is indeed welcome.

**Requiro** · 04-07-2011, 05:34 AM