Fortification

[Inkblack]

Dear devs,

The rumor mill says you're considering changes to fortification, specifically to make it so that 100% fort requires more than one item. If so, please consider typed bonuses. The idea below allows multiple ways to get to 100% fort, but requires some planning and sacrifices.

Obviously it could use some tweaking. The numbers are just there to present the idea.

Ink

Item bonuses (existing fortification items):
+20% Light
+40% Moderate
+60% Heavy

Racial bonuses:
+25% Warforged

Armor bonuses (passive, based on type worn):
+00% Cloth
+10% Light
+20% Medium
+30% Heavy
+5% Mithral
+10% Adamantine

Shield bonuses (passive, based on type used):
+5% Buckler
+10% Light
+15% Heavy
+20% Tower
+5% Adamantine

Feat bonuses (stacking):
+5% Defensive Stance (when active)
+10% Combat Expertise (when active)
+10% Two Weapon Defense (unarmed or two weapons equipped)
+10% Shield Mastery (requires shield equipped)
+10% Improved Shield Mastery (requires shield equipped)

Enhancement bonuses (non-stacking):
+10% Level 1(new line. available to martial classes? any classes?)
+20% Level 2
+30% Level 3
+40% Level 4
-----------
+5 % Defender I
+10% Defender II
+15% Defender III

Debuffs:
-15% Destruction
-30% Improved Destruction
-----------
-10% Paralyzed
-20% Held
-----------
-10% Curse

[FunkyCold_Medina]

I like this idea a lot. It makes more sense than the current system of being immune to crits very early on. I think some of the numbers should be dropped slightly to make it a bit tougher to reach a high level though... anything that makes the game a bit more challenging is a good thing.

It would also make shields a bit more valuable, maybe even make the shield bonus higher than the armour bonus, i.e. Heavy armour @ 20%, Tower shield @ 30%.

I would go so far as to say the maximum possible should be capped at 90% or 95% so that there is always a chance of getting critted no matter what your armour set is comprised of.
Maybe this maximum could be raised with active blokcing enabled, so when shield blokcing you are at 100% fortification.

[Scraap]

Armor bonuses (passive, based on type worn):
+00% Cloth
+10% Light
+20% Medium
+30% Heavy
+5% Mithral
+10% Adamantine

Shield bonuses (passive, based on type used):
+5% Buckler
+10% Light
+15% Heavy
+20% Tower
+5% Adamantine

1-5% per enhancement bonus? (5% might be a bit much, since DT docents would end up base 40+25% all on their own, but you've got a d20-ish thang goin on, so throwin the notion on out there.)

[Infant]

Dear devs,
Armor bonuses (passive, based on type worn):
+00% Cloth
+10% Light
+20% Medium
+30% Heavy
+5% Mithral
+10% Adamantine

Just out of curiosity: What would a mithral fullplate be? I'd expect 30%...

Infant

[Pape_27]

Changes to the fort system? maybe a good thing, maybe not.

I would only want to see it, though, if changes are made to AC so it becomes relevant beyond GH.


_

[Cam_Neely]

Just out of curiosity: What would a mithral fullplate be? I'd expect 30%...

Infant

35% I would guess. 30 from heavy armor and 5 more from mithral

*EDIT* as othes have pointed out, heavy is Med, so 20%+5

[Satinavian]

unfortunately the main use of fort is not to prevent damage (crit damage is only a minor contrubion as most enemies have low crit profiles). It is to prevent damage spikes.

Without 100% you will still have those. The difference between 95% and 50% is quite irrelevant.



If such a system will be implemented i can see some people take the effort to get 100% while those with builds that have difficulties so no longer invest in any fortification at all.

[Ganolyn]

Why give a Mithral bonus to armor and not shields?

[Khanyth]

Logical idea.... /signed

EDIT: question..... if idiot melees can't run around with their Minos' giving them 100% fort, will the devs drop the price of the raise dead and healing SP costs? Because if this multiple sources of fortification idea goes through, healers are gonna whine a heckuvalotmore now that melee's are only running around with 45-65% fort

[Seamonkeysix]

I think this would cause many problems, especially for classes that are inherently squishy and have to wear robes AND don't use shields. So you end up with squishy zero fortification (casters primarily) going <ding> <ding> <ding> all over the place. If anyone needs heavy fortification, it's them...

Not sure how this is going to look, or if it's even going to take place, but it's going to have to be based on a lot of things other than armor and shields, or it's gonna be a mess.

[NaturalHazard]

I think this would cause many problems, especially for classes that are inherently squishy and have to wear robes AND don't use shields. So you end up with squishy zero fortification (casters primarily) going <ding> <ding> <ding> all over the place. If anyone needs heavy fortification, it's them...

Not sure how this is going to look, or if it's even going to take place, but it's going to have to be based on a lot of things other than armor and shields, or it's gonna be a mess.

ouch for monks, have to wear robes, be on the front lines, 1d8 hp, hp is going to have to be massive to deal with the spike damage, its going to make some races and classes almost impossible to be able to melee. Oh well should sell more sp pots in the store though..........

oh and rangers and rogues only get light armour........................ **** might see a lot more kitting.

[donfilibuster]

While won't object ideas and suggestions will note fortification isn't supposed to be hard to get.
As far as magic goes magic can mess with the precision needed to strike the vital areas.

An alternative, just an idea, is to have other ways to bypass fortification.
One easy way is to let more enemy casters use targeted dispel to temporarily supress fort items for a few seconds.
Sure they have to pick from all your items but if they begin with the usual five slots it'd be a 20% chance.
Furthermore doing so still supress one of your items, which is a valid caster tactic that isn't present in ddo.

[Elyanna]

Just out of curiosity: What would a mithral fullplate be? I'd expect 30%...

Infant

I'd prefer if the metal type stacked with the armor type.

ex: mith FP would be 5+30 for a total of 35%

Also how about a 5% for every +2 enchantment so as to not make things get very high with the +8 armor from bracers and such.

+8 bracers with cloth armor would be +20 % fort with the above
whereas
+5 mith FP would yeild 10 + 5 + 30 for a total of 45% fort.

[jwdaniels]

Mithral Fullplate should be 25% - medium armor + mithral

This is an interesting system, although far more complicated than the current one and (for those who care) deviating further from PnP D&D. It's not a bad way of working heavy armor into the mix, however.

[grodon9999]

The WF should be based on body type but I like this, a lot.

It'll give armor'd mooks and advantage over guys in pajamas that would allow making AC viable in all content with pajama-monkeys having an Achilles-heel. This balances out monk-splash and just makes logical sense, if you're in cloth immunity to critical hits is just plain stupid.

Mob damages would need to be adjusted a little since critical hits would be a reality except for those perma-encased in steal and with a shield.

Combine this with my idea for expanding the useful range of AC (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ghlight=simple) and I think we have a winner.

[Inkblack]

Q: What would mithral FP be?
A: Originally I intended it to be 25% by the formulas above. 20% medium +5% mithral. It's a bit of a give back to get the additional dex bonus. It could just as easily be changed to +10% for mithral (making it equivalent to normal since the armor is lighter anyway).

Q: Why mithral bonus to armor and not shields?
A: Bonus to armor was intended to offset the reduced category caused by mithral. Heavy armors made of mithral are considered medium.

BTW, this is just answering questions to clarify my original intent. I'm not saying my idea better than what others have suggested. I know there is plenty of room for improvement.

Ink

[PNellesen]

EDIT: question..... if idiot melees can't run around with their Minos' giving them 100% fort, will the devs drop the price of the raise dead and healing SP costs? Because if this multiple sources of fortification idea goes through, healers are gonna whine a heckuvalotmore now that melee's are only running around with 45-65% fort

Count me among the whiners. Really guys, Clerics seem to be getting the shaft enough the way it is (no more extend on Blade Barriers, no more helping clear trash in Epics quickly with our Dreamspitters, etc., etc.), do we REALLY have to make it even HARDER for us to keep everyone alive without spending all our TP on mana pots? (Note - I DON'T use store pots, and have no plans to start regardless of what happens.)

Would like to hear from any Clerics out there who have had a chance to really dig into the changes on Lama - are there any changes which are making your life EASIER? I have not yet been able to get out there, so I'm hoping all my fears of DOOOOOM are unwarranted.

[NaturalHazard]

The WF should be based on body type but I like this, a lot.

It'll give armor'd mooks and advantage over guys in pajamas that would allow making AC viable in all content with pajama-monkeys having an Achilles-heel. This balances out monk-splash and just makes logical sense, if you're in cloth immunity to critical hits is just plain stupid.

Mob damages would need to be adjusted a little since critical hits would be a reality except for those perma-encased in steal and with a shield.

Combine this with my idea for expanding the useful range of AC (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ghlight=simple) and I think we have a winner.

would it still be workwhile to play a pajama wearing toon?

what about people stuck in light armour? they miss out on AC and a lot of fort?

[Inkblack]

unfortunately the main use of fort is not to prevent damage (crit damage is only a minor contrubion as most enemies have low crit profiles). It is to prevent damage spikes.

Without 100% you will still have those. The difference between 95% and 50% is quite irrelevant.

If such a system will be implemented i can see some people take the effort to get 100% while those with builds that have difficulties so no longer invest in any fortification at all.

Good point. I'm curious if there would be some peer pressure to at least get some degree of fortification, but I imagine some folks would dump it.

I like that the super dex evasion types get the advantage of the high AC, but run the risk of getting pasted if they actually get hit as Grodon9999 mentions. Granted, the numbers I list above let them get to 100% fort, but only if they spend some AP's.

I think this would cause many problems, especially for classes that are inherently squishy and have to wear robes AND don't use shields. So you end up with squishy zero fortification (casters primarily) going <ding> <ding> <ding> all over the place. If anyone needs heavy fortification, it's them...

Not sure how this is going to look, or if it's even going to take place, but it's going to have to be based on a lot of things other than armor and shields, or it's gonna be a mess.

Agreed. The possible resulting mess was the first thing I thought when I heard the rumor that they would be tweaking the system. I would love to know what the devs have in mind.

My opinion -- 100% fort should be attainable for all classes, but there should be some sacrifice to get there. The degree of sacrifice is also a matter of personal opinion.

The WF should be based on body type but I like this, a lot.

It'll give armor'd mooks and advantage over guys in pajamas that would allow making AC viable in all content with pajama-monkeys having an Achilles-heel. This balances out monk-splash and just makes logical sense, if you're in cloth immunity to critical hits is just plain stupid.

Mob damages would need to be adjusted a little since critical hits would be a reality except for those perma-encased in steal and with a shield.

Combine this with my idea for expanding the useful range of AC (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ghlight=simple) and I think we have a winner.

I like the WF bonus dependant upon armor. I guess instead of a racial bonus you could turn it into a series of feat bonuses a little higher than the corresponding armor type:

+25% Composite Plating
+35% Mithral Plating
+45% Adamantine Plating

I don't think they would get the armor bonus, so the feat would have to be a little bit higher.

[grodon9999]

would it still be workwhile to play a pajama wearing toon?

what about people stuck in light armour? they miss out on AC and a lot of fort?

Yes, if AC throughout the whole game is viable. Mob to-hits and damage would need some adjustments because right now it's balanced with everyone having 100% fort.