I'm trying to figure out what the best rogue build will be considering the following constraints:
1. Must give a PL: Rogue
2. Must be unarmed
The goals of the build are:
1. Give a PL: Rogue to my monk
2. Be easy to level, easy to solo (probably means stunning fist/blow considering U9)
Optionals:
1. end game viability (I may like to leave this character at 20 for a while but I don't have to)
2. stealth (I really like having a stealth option for quests, instagib is part of stealth considering alarm mechanics in some quests)
3. traps (what rogue can't do traps?)
4. social skills (wouldn't mind being able to try these out in U9 considering the changes to give hands on experience for future builds)
Notes:
This will be a 34 point build with a PL of monk and good monk leveling gear. I have all races, classes and adventure packs available (except 3BC).
So, what's the best build? Please address all criteria in your responses, I have a few ideas in mind but there are so many options and combinations that I need some help to know what is best.
Results 1 to 20 of 21
Thread: Rogue build challenge
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04-06-2011, 08:24 AM #1Community Member
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Rogue build challenge
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04-06-2011, 09:44 AM #2Build Constructionist
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Were it not for the forthcoming nerf (or bug fix depending on how you look at it) to healing ki, I'd say something like monk 7 / rogue 13 light monk would be your best bet. That would still work OK, but the self-healing is about to become a LOT more limited.
Maybe dark monk for Shadow Fade and extra SA? Did you have any preferences as far as races go?
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04-06-2011, 10:37 AM #3Community Member
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Generally leaning towards half-elf as I have the race but haven't rolled anything up. Half-orc is another option for similar reasons. Dwarf or warforged are tempting for boosts with tactics.
Originally Posted by unbongwah
Were it not for the forthcoming nerf (or bug fix depending on how you look at it) to healing ki, I'd say something like monk 7 / rogue 13 light monk would be your best bet. That would still work OK, but the self-healing is about to become a LOT more limited. Maybe dark monk for Shadow Fade and extra SA? Did you have any preferences as far as races go?
Stunning Fist is getting a massive buff in the next update for monk splashed characters which I think more than compensates for nerf to healing Ki. Either way, I'm a dark monk at the moment and with good AC and vampiric stonedust wraps I never lose HP anyway. Throw in UMD and twink gear and I'm not too worried (healing amp from half-elf again looks tempting).
At the moment I'm trying to find out if there is a better option than a half-elf 18 rogue / 2 monk with fighter dilettante. Assassinate, vorpal fists, decent stunning fist/blow DCs (for leveling at least). Half-orc is another option (18 rogue / 1 fighter / 1 monk though). Ok, I'm trying to figure out if a deeper splash would be better.
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04-06-2011, 11:11 AM #4Community Member
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What about 1 Monk/19 Rogue?
Feats could be TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Power Attack, Toughness, Stunning Fist, Improved Critical: Bludgeon, and either Weapon Finesse or Monk PL (plus Improved Evasion, Opportunist, Crippling Strike and Skill Mastery).
You could start with stats something like 14/16/14/8/15/12, and eat a +1 CHA tome at 3 so you can go see Fred to pick up the Paladin Dilettante for +5 saves down the road (I think it's the best one since Rogue isn't available to you here).
It should give you a decent AC for leveling, a decent Stunning Fist DC, and AC that works up to cap. Probably wouldn't be able to hit mobs with Stunning Fist in Epics, but for leveling I think it would work quite well.
Enhancements would probably be something like:
3 Rogue Damage Boost 2
6 Extra Action Boost 2
10 Rogue Haste Boost 4
2 Human DEX 1
4 Human WIS 1
6 Improved Paladin Dilettante 3
1 Human Versatility 1
6 Rogue Subtle Backstabbing 3
3 Racial Toughness 2
8 Rogue Assassin 3
10 Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 4
10 Rogue Sneak Attack Training 4
2 Improved Hide 2
2 Improved Move Silently 2
6 Rogue DEX 2
1 left over (maybe Improved Trap Sense 1?)
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04-06-2011, 11:21 AM #5Community Member
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make a monk 20 lvls get to the end spend some TP and +3/4/5 heart in the Rogue lvls if you jsut want to get the PL: feat.
otherwise the 13/7 standard split should be fine Assassin/Dark Human build towards str twf. base 16/16/14/12/12/8
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04-06-2011, 12:20 PM #6Build Constructionist
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I haven't been keeping up with all the U9 info; what's changing about Stunning Fist? Will they tweak the DC calc or something? Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
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04-06-2011, 12:44 PM #7Community Member
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It's now 10 + WIS Mod + 1/2 Character level, instead of +1/2 Monk level. Originally Posted by unbongwah
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04-06-2011, 12:48 PM #8Build Constructionist
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Here's a first stab (HA!...sorry) at a HE rogue 13 / monk 7 build:
EDIT: could drop STR for more WIS; higher DPS vs higher AC & Stunning Fist DC.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Female (7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) Hit Points: 256 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 14\14\19\24 Fortitude: 12 Reflex: 16 Will: 9 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 18 27 Dexterity 15 17 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 12 14 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 8 10 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 5 8 Bluff -1 4 Concentration 2 28 Diplomacy 3 23 Disable Device 5 25 Haggle -1 0 Heal -1 0 Hide 6 34 Intimidate -1 0 Jump 8 14 Listen -1 0 Move Silently 6 32 Open Lock 6 17 Perform n/a n/a Repair 1 2 Search 5 25 Spot -1 0 Swim 4 8 Tumble 3 6 Use Magic Device 3 23 Level 1 (Rogue) Skill: Balance (+3) Skill: Diplomacy (+4) Skill: Disable Device (+4) Skill: Hide (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Move Silently (+4) Skill: Open Lock (+4) Skill: Search (+4) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow Level 2 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+5) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting Level 3 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Level 4 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Disable Device (+3) Skill: Search (+3) Skill: Use Magic Device (+3) Level 5 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness Level 6 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Level 7 (Rogue) Skill: Disable Device (+3) Skill: Search (+3) Skill: Use Magic Device (+3) Level 8 (Monk) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Level 9 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+3) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 10 (Rogue) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+3) Skill: Search (+3) Skill: Use Magic Device (+3) Level 11 (Monk) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Level 12 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+2) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Search (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+2) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 13 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+3) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 14 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+3) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 15 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+3) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+2) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 17 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+2) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist Level 18 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+2) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 19 (Rogue) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+2) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 20 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+2) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow) I Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow) II Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I Enhancement: Adept of Wind Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV Enhancement: Improved Hide I Enhancement: Improved Hide II Enhancement: Improved Jump I Enhancement: Improved Jump II Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II Enhancement: Improved Tumble I Enhancement: Improved Tumble II Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Last edited by unbongwah; 04-06-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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04-06-2011, 09:16 PM #9Community Member
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Thanks for a mock up of enhancements, that's really distressing if enhancements are that tight, +1 for that. Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome
I've thought a bit about this option. Originally Posted by unbongwah
Let's do the cost/benefit analysis with the 18 rogue / 2 monk half-elf:
7 monk / 13 rogue gets:
shadow fade
one with the shadows
20% monk healing amp
2d6 unarmed damage
tier 2 stances and strikes (+2.5% doublestrike, more easily prepped finishing moves)
monk fast movement
+2 AC (monk AC + dodge feat)
+1 possible wisdom (though likely too expensive AP wise)
10 HP more from levels
tier 2 of animal path
Path of Indomitable Dominion (or could go light path too)
18 rogue / 2 monk:
vorpal fists
+2d6 sneak attack
+5 assassinate DC
more skill points (easier to cover stealth, traps and social skills (which a half-elf is better at)
improved evasion, opportunist and crippling strike (all will be very useful)
18 rogue / 2 monk vs 19 rogue / 1 monk is a tricky choice as with level 2 monk we get +1 feat (quickdraw) and +1 wisdom (monk wisdom I) which will give +1 stunning fist DC.
The 2d6 unarmed damage comes from PL: monk and garments of equilibrium, if we go to 12 rogue / 8 monk we get 2d8 which is more DPS against 50% fort bosses, but then why not go 11 rogue / 9 monk, lose another 1d6 sneak attack (and a useless assassinate) for improved evasion and ToD.
Both stunning fist and stunning blow are necessary on the half-elf rogue/monk to qualify for stunning blow enhancements from fighter dilettante. With fighter dilettante stunning fist DC will hit 40 with basic gear (+2 tome, +6 item, +2 ship buff) and stunning blow will hit mid 30s with the possibility to boost it up temporarily. 40 stunning fist should be useful in all content while leveling and possibly against low fort mobs in epics, not sure though.
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04-24-2011, 01:49 AM #10Community Member
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So, after your help in this thread and many other thoughts this is what I've come up with:
(18 Rogue / 2 Monk)
Goals: Better DPS than a monk vs 0 and 50% fortification mobs, Better DPS than a rogue vs 50 and 100% fortification. Excellent stunning fist DC for leveling purposes, solid stunning fist in epics.
Multiclass progression: Level 1 as a rogue, 1 level of monk sometime soon after that, second level of monk much later, maybe 20th.
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Stats and Race (34pt build):
Half-elf
Str: 40 (16 base + 5 levels +2 enhancements + 3 tome + 6 item +3 exceptional +2 rage +2 yugo +1 LotD)
Dex: 24 (15 base + 2 tome + 6 item +1 LotD)
Con: 24 (14 base + 3 tome + 6 item +1 LotD)
Int: 20 (8 base + 2 tome used at level 7 +6 item + 3 exceptional +1 LotD)
Wis: 34 (16 base + 2 enhancements +3 tome +7 item +3 exceptional +2 yugo +1 LotD)
Cha: 17 (8 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 LotD)
Ability increase every 4 levels: All in strength
Skills: (1: 7*8=56, 2-7: 6*7=42, 8-20: 11*8= 88. Monk: 7. Total: 193). UMD: 23. Search: 23. Disable Device: 23. Concentration: 7. Tumble: 1. Move Silently: 23. 101 so far. Open Lock: 10. Spot: 15. Balance: 23. Hide: 10. 159 so far. 34 skill points left over for: Bluff, diplomacy, jump, listen (probably choose either diplomacy or bluff and put left over in jump).
Feats (by level): Two Weapon Fighting (1), Past Life: Monk (1), Half-elf Dilettante: Fighter (1), Monk Bonus: Stunning Fist (2), Power Attack (3), Stunning Blow (6), Quickdraw (9), Crippling Strike (11), Improved Critical: Bludgeoning (12), Improved Evasion (14), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (15), Opportunist (17), Greater Two Weapon Fighting (18), Monk Bonus: Toughness (20)
Enanchments:
Equipment:Code:Assassin III 8 - SA Accuracy IV 10 - SA Training IV 10 - Damage Boost II 3 - Improved Hide II 2 - Improved MS II 2 - Subtle Backstab I 1 Haste Boost IV 10 Extra AB II 6 Toughness II 3 Versatility IV 10 Fighter Strength I 2 Adaptability: Strength 2 Adaptability: Wisdom 4 Monk Wisdom I 2 Subtle Backstab II 2 Half-elf strategy: SB 3 --------------------------- Tot 80
Cloak: Epic Cape of the Roc
Goggles: Epic Time Sensing Goggles
Gloves: Epic Brawling Gloves
Bracers: (Epic) Jidz Tet-ka
Ring1: Nyoko's Band (holy burst)
Ring2: Encrusted Ring (shocking burst)
Boots: GS Boots (+45 HP, +6 con skills, +5 prot, heavy fort)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead/Greater Cunning Trinket/Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (for ToD)
Head: Pirate Hat (Seeker +6, Balance +15)/Epic Helm of the Mronan
Necklace: Nyoko's Necklace
Belt: Knost's Belt
Body: Red Dragonscale Robe (slotted with toughness)
Slots:
4 yellow (cove gloves, mronan helm, cape of the roc, time sensing)
2 clear (red dragonscale, time sensing)
1 blue (red dragonscale)
+1/+2 exc str: cape of the roc
+1 exc wisdom:
+2 exc wisdom: epic time sensing goggles
+6 str: berzerker
+6 dex:
+6 con: nyoko/berzerker
+6 int
+6/7 wis: nyoko, epic helm of the mronan
+6 cha
+1 exc dex: nyoko
belt set options:
Berzerker (con +6, GFL, +2 damage, str +6, exc str +1)
necklace set options:
Ninja-Spy (con +6, wis +6, exc dex +1, +2 AB, -20% threat)
Kensai (con +6, +AB's, +2 AB, str +6, exc con +1, +3 confirm crits)
Shintao (con +6, wis +6, concentration +15, exc str +1, +2 att/dam)
Tempest (con +6, dex +6, balance +15, +1d4 dam, +1 exc wis)
swap in set options:
Mechanic (con +6, dex +6, +15 open lock/disable, +2 dex skills, +1 exc int
Assassin (con +6, dex +6, exc int +1, -20% threat, level drain, sneak attack)
Details:
HP: 20 base + 18 rogue x6 + 2 monk x8 + 6 con x 20 + 30 GFL + 10 draconic + 22 toughness + 20 enhancements +45 GS HP +20 toughness = 20+108+16+120+30+10+22+20+45+20 = 411. Bracers of the Claw would raise that to 431 (bit light but I think I can deal with it).
Stunning Fist DC: 10 base + 10 CL + 10 item + 12 wisdom + 2 enhancements = 44. +2 ship buff = 45. A +4 tome would free up 4 APs.
UMD: 23 base + 3 (cha) + 4 GH = 30 standing if I can slot +6 charisma. +2 (ship buffs) = 32. +1 exc charisma slotted = 33 standing. +5 human versatility: skills boosts it up to 38 UMD which is no fail heal scroll (1+38 = 39?) without gear swaps. For gear swaps epic spyglass, golden cartouche and epic buccaneers ring will boost it up to 46 without any problems.
Search (Goal: 60). +20 epic spyglass + 4 GH + 2 good luck +5 int + 23 ranks + 5 human versatility: skills boost = 59
Disable Device (Goal: 60). +7 tools + 15 item + 4 GH + 2 good luck +3 ventilated bracers + 5 int +23 ranks +5 human versatility: skills boost = 64
Comparisons:
19 rogue, 1 monk. Lose quickdraw, a monk philosophy and +1 monk wisdom for +1d6 sneak attack, +1 assassinate DC and slippery mind (or something). Afaik, the DPS from quickdraw more than makes up for the loss of sneak attack. The stunning fist DC boost from the extra point of wisdom more than offsets the loss of assassinate DC.
13 rogue, 7 monk. Lose 1d6 sneak attack, 6 points of assassinate DC, lots of skill points, crippling strike and vorpal fists for shadow fade, healing amp, tier 2 strikes, 2d6 fists with item and PL: monk (at the cost of quickdraw).
10 rogue, 9 monk, 1 ranger. Lose 3d6 sneak attack, assassinate and others above for ToD, 2d8 fist damage (with item and PL: monk at the cost of quickdraw), FE: evil outsider.
20 rogue: You can get ITWF and GTWF 3 levels earlier if my off the top of the head BAB calculations are correct which will balance out the DPS advantage for those affected levels that handwraps would otherwise have (until the pure rogue gets the capstone).
Variants:
Boost intelligence by 4 by dropping wisdom to 14. +2 Assassinate DC and more skill points at the cost of 1 AC and 1 stunning fist DC. I'm not sure which way is better but I think I have to build for stunning fist DC to be safe.
Please criticise, compare, ridicule to your hearts content.
Particularly, I would be interested to know the DPS comparisons against various levels of fortification of this build compared to:
Black Lotus.
A pure dark monk.
A pure assassin rogue.
Any suggestions on more optimal gear setups are welcome. However, no abishai sets. No sets that don't involve Epic Brawling Gloves (they are close to optimal DPS and so easily accessible and once slotted with GFL can be useful to many characters).
Edit: made a boo boo as Aylin pointed out, just a typo, enhancements etc reflect the actual choice.
Edit: added in bonus rogue feats, any comments (with reasoning) on the choice or the order would be appreciated.
Edit: noticed that I hadn't taken enhancements reflected in my calculations, hopefully in order nowLast edited by wax_on_wax_off; 04-27-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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04-24-2011, 03:22 AM #11Community Member
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Um...no. Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
Fighter, Barbarian, or even Monk would be better here.
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04-24-2011, 03:38 AM #12Community Member
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Fixed the typo for you (fighter dilettante in actuality for the stunning fist DC). Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome
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04-24-2011, 10:21 AM #13Community Member
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Is this the best that anyone can offer on this build, a typo? Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome
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04-25-2011, 12:24 AM #14Community Member
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(111.3*1.855/60*155.8+147.5*1.855/60*140)/20*100/300=19.58 DPS from vorpal fists in a 5 minute red named boss fight.
(111.3*1.855/60*460+147.5*1.855/60*140)/20*150/600=27.76 DPS from vorpal fists in a 10 minute period vs helpless trash over 1000 HP (can't quantify the affect on DPS of vorpal fists vs <1000 HP enemies without knowing average mob HP afaik).
This looks very good for my build vs <18 rogue level rogue/monk variants.
Edit: forgot 3% doublestrike from opportunist.Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 04-25-2011 at 12:33 AM.
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04-25-2011, 07:54 AM #15Community Member
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What a about a 13Rog/6Ftr/1Mnk? That'll let you take Kensai I which will add Ki on-hit, add tactics enhancements for SF DCs, and still get some sneak attack damage out of your Rogue levels. You can still stay in Wind stance for the melee alacrity, you'll get a bonus feat from Monk. You'll lose some sneak attack dice but you'll get more in-your-face damage. The extra Ki from Kensai will let you hit strikes more often, and if you stayed in Fire you could hit them pretty much at-will considering that would be a minimum of 3ki/hit.
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04-25-2011, 09:21 AM #16Community Member
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I guess I'd say take Opportunist sooner (I think opportunist, improved evasion, then crippling strike would be a better order). Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
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04-27-2011, 01:08 AM #17Community Member
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Thanks for the feedback. I was generally thinking about what is going to be better for soloing and 3 points of strength damage/hit (against stunned mobs) is going to be a really simple way to make enemies helpless. Improved Evasion, again, possibly better for soloing so I can ignore traps a bit more. I generally assumed that opportunist would be more relevant in raid settings. What is your reasoning for taking opportunist sooner? Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome
DPS wise, I lose 2d6 sneak attack and vorpals (almost 20 DPS vs red names). I'm not sure that the extra damage from fighter will make up for that when considering end game viability. I don't imagine that Ki will be an issue as the only thing I'll use it for will be stunning, as long as I can generate 15 Ki every 6 seconds I should be fine (3.44 attacks/second, about 22 ki every 6 seconds). Any problems with that idea? Originally Posted by XL_Jockey
Stunning Fist wise, I'll lose 1 DC from not being able to take monk wisdom I and half-elf no longer being an optimal choice. However, it would open the possibility to take dwarf or warforged (net +1 or 2 DC) or halforc (moar DPS but -1 DC and -2 AB). Dwarf would cost more DPS from having 2 points lower strength and no damage boost. Warforged might be on par DPS wise but lose out with -4 AB (lower strength and power attack enhancements). Both dwarf and warforged cost more to boost their DC than what half-elf does.
DPS wise, human versatility: damage boost adds 10.64 DPS in a 5 minute fight (halve it for a 10 minute fight).
147.5*1.855/60*140*5/300=10.64 DPS over 5 minutes
Full WF power attack enhancements give a net benefit of +2 damage (after +2 strength is taken away) for 8.22 DPS.
(111.3*1.855/60*155.8+147.5*1.855/60*140)/20*21*2/300=8.22 DPS
Half-orc (with +2 net strength, +3 damage from power attack and 3 extra action boosts) over 10 minutes:
(111.3*1.855/60*394+147.5*1.855/60*200)/20*21*4/600=15.87 DPS
Halfling is at -4 strength but +8 sneak attack damage (and -1 stunning fist DC):
(111.3*1.855/60*155.8+147.5*1.855/60*140)/20*21*(8*.6-2)/300=11.51 DPS
Dwarf would just be lower overall (-5 DPS). These are comparative calculations and I'm not totally sure on them all but they are assuming .6 seconds lost to activate boosts and that it is possible to activate both action boosts in the same pause for half-elves (I've been trying this recently and it seems to work ok). Where appropriate, calculations are done assuming 50% fortification - 10% for opportunist.
The length of battles is an important consideration. I often consider battles in terms of 5 minutes boss battles and 10 minutes between shrines contexts, feel free to disagree.
DPS wise, pecking order is something like half-orc > halfling > half-elf > warforged > dwarf (as I value burst DPS more for the helf vs wf assessment).
Stunning Fist DC for 18 rogue builds is dwarf > warforged = half-elf > halfling = half orc.
Stunning Fist DC for <18 rogue builds is dwarf > warforged > half-elf > halfling = half orc.
I think for end game purposes when considering unarmed sneak attack builds 18 rogue > not 18 rogue as vorpal is just that good. 18 rogue / 1 fighter / 1 monk warforged is a very strong contender with my above build, I'm not sure what is better, they both have strong racial perks. Overall, I think that there might be more leniency with enhancements and affording the AP to equal the DC and DPS of the helf might be impossible, anyone care to write an example enhancement list for that? Additionally, being -4 AB just to equal DPS will be prohibitive against some enemies and may require that power attack be deactivated (in which case DPS takes a nose dive).
Anyone care to comment on vorpal vs no vorpal in the context of the general build theme? Anyone care to guess at how much DPS vorpal will add vs trash?
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04-27-2011, 03:41 AM #18Community Member
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Adjusting gear, comments welcome.
Important question (which more or less summons the big rant just above); vorpal vs no vorpal on an unarmed rogue, what is better?
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04-27-2011, 05:07 AM #19Community Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Posts
- 6,512
Any ideas on ideal ToD sets? As I'll have 2 rings equipped and at the moment my belt and necklace slot are free.
I was thinking Shintao Set and Berzerker set for maximise damage/attack.
Other options?
I also considered Kensai Set (extra Action Boost and +2 attack) and sets that give minus threat.
Ideally I'd like +1 exceptional constitution and +1 exceptional wisdom from rings and appropriate +stats as needed. Not sure where I am with getting +6 to every stat ...
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04-27-2011, 08:15 AM #20Community Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
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- 181
If you don't want to add other Monk attacks, then yes, it'll be hard to make up for the 2d6 sneak attack damage. If you use them though (even just one or two) then you're increasing your dps plus you're able to use finishers for an extra crit multiplier, slowing their attacks, etc. Kensai I would let you hit those strikes more often. If that's not your thing though (I have a hard time keeping them up) then I definitely agree with you. I'm having the same struggle with my Horc Acrobat, whether to go 19/1 Rog/Mnk or 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk. I think I'm settled on 19/1, but I'm really glad I went Horc. Sneak attack damage is great but I still solo too many quests to make it useful. Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
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