U9 Wizard blocking wizard?

[SolarDawning]

This isn't a build, just some idle thoughts I couldn't get out of my head at 4:00 am.

Elf Wizard 18/Rogue 2, dragontouched leather armor, Mithral large shield +5.
Pale Master.

Spell failure is negated due to racial enhancements.
The new shield mastery feat will provide a passive 15% reduction to incoming physical damage. On top of that, you have active blocking DR from the shield, and passive 10/adamantine from Stoneskin.

Evasion from Rogue, 25% incorporeal miss chance + 50% miss chance from Displacement.

With some effort, AC can reach a passable amount.
10 base.
7 Shield
8 Armor
7 Dex (16 base, +6 item, +2 tome = 24, which is max dex for dragontouched leather)
+1 dodge (Mabar cloak level 16)
+2 dodge (Bracers, either Chaosguard or the new ones in u9 that also have Toughness)
+3 dodge (Dragontouched sov rune)
+4 Insight (On greensteel main hand item)
+5 protection (Greensteel mineral goggles, I'm thinking? The redundant heavy fort + undead form helps against the newer enemies that have some fortification bypass.)
+5 natural armor on a pirate hat.
+5 from airship buffs
+5 from Combat Expertise (Off when casting, then toggle on when blocking)

That puts us at 62 already, then there's extra AC from active shield blocking. Not a ton of AC, but it's enough to put you in the ballpark for high level content.

That plus the fairly awesome straight up miss chance from wraith+displacement should reduce incoming hits to a trickle, while active blocking will handle the damage very well.

This character would toss an acid rain/firewall, keep death aura up, and sit and block in it.

I don't have much experience playing casters, but this sounds like it could be fun.
Thoughts?

[Failedlegend]

Well unlike my Sorc I have some leeway on feats for my Wiz so I might take Shield Mastery just for the 15% DR...which is passive BTW you don't need to be blocking for it to work just weidling a sheild between that and Evasion+Insightful Reflexes+WF+Wraith Form a Wiz will probably be very hard to kill (at least by wizard standards).

[PestWulf]

Does evasion still work with a large shield? I know medium and heavy armor turn it off, so I was thinking that it wouldn't work with anything other than a light shield as well?

[Failedlegend]

Does evasion still work with a large shield? I know medium and heavy armor turn it off, so I was thinking that it wouldn't work with anything other than a light shield as well?

That I don't actually know. Weapons don't affect Evasion though so maybe...hopefully shields don't.

[stille_nacht]

get a Light and Darkness

also, 62 is not really in the ballpark for Amrath, or even elite vale...

[Trillea]

Does evasion still work with a large shield? I know medium and heavy armor turn it off, so I was thinking that it wouldn't work with anything other than a light shield as well?

Shields don't affect evasion in any way. You can evade even with a tower shield.

[Failedlegend]

Shields don't affect evasion in any way. You can evade even with a tower shield.

VICTORY!!!!!








Oh and here's how evasion works with a tower shield :P

[Failedlegend]

I'd think (If your WF) try Wiz/Monk 18/2 instead of Wiz/Rog because from my play experience I rarely use my UMD (beyond 20 for equip)/Trapskills so Monk still brings Evasion+More Feats oh and makes PM forms fun for screwing around. Between Shields with ASF reducers (mithral,twilight etc.) and The Seven fingered gloves you can easily avoid any ASF.

As far as the AC I don't really know much about, but AFAIK you need at least 70+ AC or you might as well only have 1AC but I'd love someone to say that it could work out at least for trash...anything to make my wizard more survivable. The main issue is your using alot of gear slots for it limiting the slots for magic boosters...I think this would be better on a WF since their Equipment Slot economy is much better due to immunities (and they also have a Racial line that reduce ASF by up to 20% so 15% overall due to their natural -5%)

Oh and if your going to go Dex for AC you might as well take Weapon Finesse and TWF so you can actually hit things (works best if you go Wiz18/Monk2 and take them as Monk feats)...depends how much you want to invest in screwing around

Side-Note: Apparently 1 level of Bard still makes any spells for any class work fine in light armor but I haven't

Something like this might work (I just swapped in some melee feats and changed the stats around on my wizard's LR plans)


Lawful Neutral WF Wizard18/Monk2

Stats

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 16 (Lvl ups here)
Wis 6
Cha 6

Feats (No particular Order)


Regular

1 SF:Necro
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Toughness
5 Shield Prof: General
6 TWF
7 Weapon Finesse

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Extend
4 Maximize

Monk

1 Combat Expertise
2 TWF


Skills

Max: Concentration
Half Ranks: UMD/Balance

Note: Balance will start getting 2pts (Full Rank) at lvl 8 (+2 Int Tome) and the 2nd Monk Level will be taken at 9 or 10 to catch it up

If AC doesn't end up being at all useful (ie. cant reasonably reach a decent amount) just dump dex (make Str 16 and Int 18) and drop CE, TWF & Weapon Finesse...probably for SP, GSP & Extend and you still end up with a highly survivable Wizard with some fun PM forms of punchyness :P

Also heres a halfling build someone suggested I added some things in red

let me give it an go.

-----------------------------
halfling 18wiz, 2 monk, 32 pt build.
16 str: 8 base -2 halfling +2 tome +1 exeptional +7 enhancement(event gloves) -2 stance +2 shrine.
34 dex: 14 base +2 halfling +2 enhancement +7 enhancement(event ring)+2 tome +2shrine +3 exeptional +2yugo
28 con: 12 base +6 enhancement +2 tome +2shrine +4form +2yug.
46 int: 18 base +5 levelup +4tome +3 enhancements +7 enhancement(greenslot) +2 shrine +2 form +3 exeptional +2 yugo.
34 wis: 14 base +3tome +3exeptional +2shrine +6 enhancement +2 yugo +2 stance +2form
18 cha: 8 base +6 enhancement +2 form +2tome.

feats:
Regular

1 Heighten
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Toughness
5 Shield Prof: General
6 TWF
7 Weapon Finesse

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Extend
4 Maximize

Monk

1 Combat Expertise
2 TWF


ac:
10 base
12 dex
12 wis
8 armor(jidz bracers?)
4 shield(spell)
1dodge haste
2dodge mabar cloak
3dodge chattering ring
4dodge icy raiment.
1alchemic dodge ritual on icy raiment.

5 combat expertise
4 natural armor(wisdom yugo pot).
1 dodge haste.

4 insight.
5 protection

1 centered
1 size

2 block
2 protection from evil

82 ac?

+4 bard
+6 pally
+3 HHC
+1 natural from ranger.
+2 recitation from cleric
99 ac in theory. not bad for an wizard.



~~~HP~~~
wiz 18X4 = +72
monk 2X8 = +18
con 18X 10 = +180

starter feat = +20
toughness feat = +23
enhancements = +20

yugo = +20
greensteel = +45

favor feat = +10
monk enhancement = +5
minos legends = 20

total hp: 433?


-----------------
wont do skills because im too lazy. but id imagine something like monk 1st level to unlock max cap on skills.
6 skill points per level at minimum, 8 from level 8 and up.
put points into umd, 1 rank tumble. and where you want ranks in, guess it doesnt matter.

overal saves:
wiz18: 6/6/11
monk2: 3/3/3
3 resistance.
4 GH
2water stance
10/12/12 abilities
2 luck
0/1/0 haste

30/33/37 saves. with only spells and stance used.

fortification
100 minos legends
100 lich form
-75% yugo int pot.

total 125% fort. huray!. pale masters ftw.

get potency on an amrath necklace. theyre easy to get.

about caster level against SR.
wait till update 9 and craft shatter mantle shurikens, you get free dex to attack with 0 melee feats. and no 2 weapon fighting penalties.

gear:

thinking something about this.
headslot: minos legends.
offhand: GS kama: +6 wisdom +6 charisma +4insight ac, +1ex strength +concort op.
mainhand: whatever, could slot any +2 insight on shurikens or kama. +1ex int.
gloves: +7 strength epic event item. yellow slot.
ring1: epic event ring, +7 dex. good hope +2. green slot
ring2: chattering ring.
trinket: spy glass, +2 ex int. green slot.
bracers: epic jidz bracers from house D. +1ex wisdom, yellow and collourless slots.
body: icy raiment: +4dodge ac, +1 ritual, +3resistance +4 protection.
cloak: epic mabar cloak. deathward +2ac. DR5/good.
necklace: wiz6 + sup potency 6 amrath necklace. there multiple of those.

i have to goto bed now, but you get the idea.

[voodoogroves]

Just like I'll be turning my Tukaw into a shield-toting hate-tank, I'm also considering TRing one of my characters into a Pale Master shield-toting hate-tank.

I see what you're trying to hit for AC, but I personally wouldn't bother. I think for the wizard style that Shield Mastery and Death Aura(s) + guards + intim is going to be plenty solid.

[SolarDawning]

I see what you're trying to hit for AC, but I personally wouldn't bother. I think for the wizard style that Shield Mastery and Death Aura(s) + guards + intim is going to be plenty solid.

I think you're right about this. It's possible to get AC to a usable amount... but not worth it, when you already have Wraith form + Displacement and guards on items.

[Failedlegend]

I think you're right about this. It's possible to get AC to a usable amount... but not worth it, when you already have Wraith form + Displacement and guards on items.

In that case Here's what I'm LRing (or GRing I think he's a 28pt build) my Wiz/Rog into...you could probably easily make it into another race if needed..I can't :P

Monk Taken for Evasion + Extra Feats + Fun with Stances/PM Forms.

Lawful Neutral WF Wizard18/Monk2 Palemaster

Stats (32pts.)

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 6
Cha 6

Feats (No particular Order)


Regular

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Heighten
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Extend
4 Maximize

Monk

1 Deflect Arrows
2 Toughness


Skills

Max: Concentration/Spot
Half Ranks: UMD/Balance

Note: Balance will start getting 2pts (Full Rank) at lvl 8 (+2 Int Tome) and the 2nd Monk Level will be taken at 9 or 10 (whichever one I took rogue at) to catch it up

Most likely will spec acid for flavour reasons (and to enhance the "different" feeling of this wizard as opposed to my current one) unless PM requires a certain enhancement line (since the current enhancement pre-reqs are being deleted from the game)

If U9 Crafting is good enough I might be able to run with Handwraps or a Q-Staff (not sure if there's any good named Q-Staffs for casters since i've always just used two weapons) when not using a Shield+Skiver (or Greenblade or w/e) so IOW when I'm screwing around ( Monk causes me too lose little and gain much fun + usefullness)

[SolarDawning]

Failedlegend, I wouldn't use Monk with a shield blocking build, since you're automatically uncentered when equipping a shield.

Rogue will work better, I'd think, and allow you to get some UMD and trap skills while doing it.

[sephiroth1084]

While it won't do anything for levels 1-19, the Kundarak Warding Shield (and I guess other epic shields) can be slotted with a -15% ASF, giving it a 0% failure. And even has another slot for something useful like Good Luck.

The idea looks pretty intriguing. Personally, I think it's largely unnecessary, given how easy the game becomes just from being a pale master in the first place, but it would be nice to completely disregard incoming damage.

[Failedlegend]

Failedlegend, I wouldn't use Monk with a shield blocking build, since you're automatically uncentered when equipping a shield.

Rogue will work better, I'd think, and allow you to get some UMD and trap skills while doing it.

Yeah I actually had decided on Monk long before the U9 update was released...the trapskills and UMD from rogue I haven't actually found all that useful especially as a WF/PM (on other toons UMD is a godsend) but I loved evasion so I took Monk mostly because its the only other 2 splash that gives evasion & it allowed me to fit toughness in as well as a second undecided bonus feat.

I know Shield Mastery and the monk Stances don't mesh but if the Shield Mastery turns out to be too much trouble I can just drop it.....if I stuck with rogue I would need another LR and thats expensive.

For others who find the extra UMD and the trapskills really useful rogue is far superior though. So a personal choice and not necessarily what I'd recommend but taking 2 Rogue instead doesn't change the basic build much.

Feel free to check out my thread for the discussion on how my build evolved. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310689

[SolarDawning]

Yeah I actually had decided on Monk long before the U9 update was released...the trapskills and UMD from rogue I haven't actually found all that useful especially as a WF/PM (on other toons UMD is a godsend) but I loved evasion so I took Monk mostly because its the only other 2 splash that gives evasion & it allowed me to fit toughness in as well as a second undecided bonus feat.

I know Shield Mastery and the monk Stances don't mesh but if the Shield Mastery turns out to be too much trouble I can just drop it.....if I stuck with rogue I would need another LR and thats expensive.

For others who find the extra UMD and the trapskills really useful rogue is far superior though. So a personal choice and not necessarily what I'd recommend but taking 2 Rogue instead doesn't change the basic build much.

Yup. Personal choice.
2 feats from monk, or skills from rogue. Both get evasion, which is the real point.
I find that wizards aren't hard up for feats though, so even without monk you can still fit in the shield ones as well as all of your casting feats.

[Failedlegend]

Here's the rogue splash version (skills removed because I'm lazy and going to bed but basically all your standard rogue stuff minus spot) oh and another thing that favors rogue is they can be TN so Stability items function (ie. Light and Darkness Shield = +6 Saves vs. +4 Saves...AC too but that's a non-issue)


True Neutral WF Wizard18/Rogue2 Palemaster

Stats (32pts.)

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 6
Cha 6

Feats (No particular Order)


Regular

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Toughness
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Heighten
4 Maximize


I dropped extend in favor of toughness but you could easily drop any feat that isn't a pre-req depending on personal preference

so even without monk you can still fit in the shield ones as well as all of your casting feats.

The only thing is I don't know what I would drop (despite the above build) from this to fit in Toughness (needed for Lich & Vampire and 90% of my builds include it)

Regular

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Heighten
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Extend
4 Maximize


Mind you on the other hand if Shield Mastery Isn't worth in on my Wiz and I drop both feats and Deflect Arrows (which is mostly likely getting changed anyway) I could actually fit in the Full THF line and wield a Q-Staff...not saying I would...just that I could. I'd probably take , THF (instead of deflect arrows) Augment Summoning and Quicken, Empower or SF:UMD (for ease of reaching 20)...which is what I removed to fit those feats in (I'm still unsure what would be best for the last slot).

Oh well time/lotsa testing will tell.

[Failedlegend]

.....stupid slow net connection...double post sorry

[Trillea]

Here's the rogue splash version (skills removed because I'm lazy and going to bed but basically all your standard rogue stuff minus spot) oh and another thing that favors rogue is they can be TN so Stability items function (ie. Light and Darkness Shield = +6 Saves vs. +4 Saves...AC too but that's a non-issue)


True Neutral WF Wizard18/Rogue2 Palemaster

Stats (32pts.)

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 6
Cha 6

Feats (No particular Order)


Regular

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Toughness
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Heighten
4 Maximize


I dropped extend in favor of toughness but you could easily drop any feat that isn't a pre-req depending on personal preference



The only thing is I don't know what I would drop (despite the above build) from this to fit in Toughness (needed for Lich & Vampire and 90% of my builds include it)

Regular

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)
2 GSF: Necro
3 Shield Mastery
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Heighten
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Extend
4 Maximize


Mind you on the other hand if Shield Mastery Isn't worth in on my Wiz and I drop both feats and Deflect Arrows (which is mostly likely getting changed anyway) I could actually fit in the Full THF line and wield a Q-Staff...not saying I would...just that I could. I'd probably take , THF (instead of deflect arrows) Augment Summoning and Quicken, Empower or SF:UMD (for ease of reaching 20)...which is what I removed to fit those feats in (I'm still unsure what would be best for the last slot).

Oh well time/lotsa testing will tell.

I really like this, but I would go human for the extra feat (would take empower) and skill point per level (cross class UMD). Self healing will be a non-issue - you are a pale master with wraith as your main form. Between the wraith and displacement it's about a 62% miss chance. Then you have evasion for spells, most immunities of a WF because of undead form, and self healing through aura.

[Failedlegend]

I really like this, but I would go human for the extra feat (would take empower) and skill point per level (cross class UMD). Self healing will be a non-issue - you are a pale master with wraith as your main form. Between the wraith and displacement it's about a 62% miss chance. Then you have evasion for spells, most immunities of a WF because of undead form, and self healing through aura.

Oh yeah thats not actually a build suggestion its what my LR of my WF would look like had I decided to stick with the rogue splash...I'll make an actual build in the morning...for now sleep

[Failedlegend]

Sorry for derailing your thread there a bit Solar here's what I'd suggest for a Wiz18/Rogue2 Palemaster wielding a large shield (preferably as its get 15% DR).

True Neutral Human Wizard18/Rogue2 Palemaster (Rogue Taken at 1 & 9)

Stats (32pts.)

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 8
Cha 8

Feats (No particular Order)

Human

1 Shield Prof:General (required to actually take Shield Mastery)

Regular

1 Shield Mastery
2 GSF: Necro
3 Extend
4 Spell Pen
5 Greater Spell Pen
6 Toughness
7 Insightful Reflexes

Wiz

1 SF:Necro
2 Mental Toughness
3 Heighten
4 Maximize

Skills

Max: Concentration, UMD, DD, Search
Rogue Levels: Add OL, Balance and w/e
After Level 7 (+2 Int Tome): Start taking points in Balance