Trap the Soul Spell

[Yaga_Nub]

As a part of your spellpass, could you either eliminate the need for khyber shards, change the price of the shards you can buy to a more reasonable price, or change the crafting recipe so that it no longer takes 20 minutes (or more at times) to make 100 average shards. This is a great spell that no one uses, in part, because of the time and/or money sink to get average shards.

[Bradik_Losdar]

Totally agreed.

This spell needs to get rid of the ridiculous three HD tier/size shards structure entirely(since they have already traveled down this road with removing the caps on other spells) and only ONE EASILY craftable component (that could also be purchased at a vendor if so desired).

Oh, and for gods sake, HAVE THE GEMS THAT DROP ON SUCCESS GO AUTOMATICALLY IN THE OWNERS INVENTORY!!!!!

[fuzzy1guy]

For the power of the spell... I'd say no to any changes to cost. If anything raise the cost even more. 100 average should be costing you around 100k plat. Just based on how useful the spell is.

We just need all the shard types sold in the vendor. Average especially.


I DO however want to see the 30hd version of the spell changed to 30 and up. So it can work on more stuff.

[Khimberlhyte]

For the power of the spell... I'd say no to any changes to cost. If anything raise the cost even more. 100 average should be costing you around 100k plat. Just based on how useful the spell is.

The cost should be comparable to other spells. The material costs for Finger of Death, Stoneskin, Death Pact, and Wail are trivial compared with the expense (in plat and time wasted crunching) of using Trap the Soul.

[voodoogroves]

The cost should be comparable to other spells. The material costs for Finger of Death, Stoneskin, Death Pact, and Wail are trivial compared with the expense (in plat and time wasted crunching) of using Trap the Soul.

It isn't the money. It's the time and annoyance. I send all my khybers to my mage. I crunch them. They end up in bags. Invariably when I want to cast, they are in a bag or get moved there automatically. It's just super annoying.

The split HD of the spell factors into this too; I'd rather cast the big version and not have to worry and just have it cost more.

[goodoldxelos]

Please do remove the upper limit on this spell, id like to be able to use it in epics

[Saravis]

They can't change the material component for the spell because thats the whole function of the spell. Its meant to make soul gems and to make soul gems you need khyber shards. There is no getting around that.

[Jaid314]

The cost should be comparable to other spells. The material costs for Finger of Death, Stoneskin, Death Pact, and Wail are trivial compared with the expense (in plat and time wasted crunching) of using Trap the Soul.

those spells are prevented by deathblock. trap the soul is not.

i do think removing the upper HD limit would be a nice touch though (or at the very least, allowing us access to larger khyber shard fragments and a 40 HD version)

[TheDearLeader]

For the power of the spell... I'd say no to any changes to cost. If anything raise the cost even more. 100 average should be costing you around 100k plat. Just based on how useful the spell is.

100 Average *do* normally cost you around 100k Plat.

Let me help you.

1 Tiny Khyber Shard is 100 Plat base cost. (Portable Hole, Amrath Vendor, 12 Vendor, Shroud Part 3 Vendor)
100 Tiny make 20 Small.
10 Small make 4 Average.

So, that's 8 Average per 100 Tiny. 100 Tiny cost you (100*100) = 10k Plat.

10k Plat/8 Average = 1,250 Plat per Average.

100 * 1,250 = 1,250,000 Platinum for 100 Averages, more or less depending on your Haggle.

Sooo... yeah. They're already that expensive. Are you suggesting raising the cost more? 1 Casting of the spell costs me more than my Melee's repair bill after a quest.

They can't change the material component for the spell because thats the whole function of the spell. Its meant to make soul gems and to make soul gems you need khyber shards. There is no getting around that.

The original "Trap the Soul" from the SRD uses a gemstone of appropriate worth according to the HD of the creature being trapped. TtS is not an Eberron-specific spell, therefore Khyber Shards were something that the Devs decided should be tied to the spell in this setting.

So... yes, they most certainly *could* change it to whatever else they wanted.

[Yaga_Nub]

those spells are prevented by deathblock. trap the soul is not.

i do think removing the upper HD limit would be a nice touch though (or at the very least, allowing us access to larger khyber shard fragments and a 40 HD version)

Trap the Soul isn't a death effect, so it shouldn't be prevented by deathblock or deathward. It is affected by SR though.

[Jaid314]

Trap the Soul isn't a death effect, so it shouldn't be prevented by deathblock or deathward. It is affected by SR though.

i know. my point was that it shouldn't be compared to the spells that person listed. it isn't the same thing.

[Saravis]

The original "Trap the Soul" from the SRD uses a gemstone of appropriate worth according to the HD of the creature being trapped. TtS is not an Eberron-specific spell, therefore Khyber Shards were something that the Devs decided should be tied to the spell in this setting.

So... yes, they most certainly *could* change it to whatever else they wanted.

Ah I see, well I don't know much about PnP. My understanding was coming from what I know regarding DDO. Of course, given that gems aren't sold in stores and if they were there's no telling how much they would cost, I can't say that changing from Khybers to gems would be of any benefit. Who knows, Devs could have made a khyber the component because that was the more simplistic approach.

Regardless, if one requires a gem, a khyber, or Aunt May's apple pie; the fact doesn't change that you require a valuable component to use the spell.

[SisAmethyst]

I totally agree here, especially as the prices for the Khyber Shards on the AH probably explode with the additional need in Crafting!

[TheDearLeader]

Regardless, if one requires a gem, a khyber, or Aunt May's apple pie; the fact doesn't change that you require a valuable component to use the spell.

No, it does not.

But your statement was "The Devs can't change this", and my response is : Yes, they can. They could change each and every spell component need in game, should they want to.

So, the suggestion made by OP is valid, and should be considered thusly. The current implementation is just... annoying. It needs some sort of tweak.

Of course, given that gems aren't sold in stores and if they were there's no telling how much they would cost,

Large Diamonds are sold in Spell Component Store, as they are the Material Component for Death Pact. So, again, your information is not factual. Base price of 1,000 Gold.

[Saravis]

No, it does not.

But your statement was "The Devs can't change this", and my response is : Yes, they can. They could change each and every spell component need in game, should they want to.

So, the suggestion made by OP is valid, and should be considered thusly. The current implementation is just... annoying. It needs some sort of tweak.

Sure, I stand corrected in that regard, but my question is would it change anything if they did? I don't think so, a change like that would be superficial at best.

What sort of change would you suggest to correct the annoyance? The annoyance, as far as I can see, is a need for a valuable commodity and has been agreed upon that can't change. My only thought is that they make smalls cover level ranges 10-30 and make average 30 and up, but I don't know if that would be an acceptable change.

Large Diamonds are sold in Spell Component Store, as they are the Material Component for Death Pact. So, again, your information is not factual. Base price of 1,000 Gold.

Large diamonds are a material component, not a gem. It doesn't go into your gem bag and when you filter by components thats where its listed.

[TheDearLeader]

Large diamonds are a material component, not a gem. It doesn't go into your gem bag and when you filter by components thats where its listed.

Now you're splitting hairs.

We're discussing a spell that in its original implementation utilized gemstones.

You say that gems cannot be bought.

We have a gem, that can be bought, and is already a spell component. Its the perfect fit for such a spell, because the game already recognizes it as a component, it has a set cost, and can already be purchased.

[Yaga_Nub]

Sure, I stand corrected in that regard, but my question is would it change anything if they did? I don't think so, a change like that would be superficial at best.

What sort of change would you suggest to correct the annoyance? The annoyance, as far as I can see, is a need for a valuable commodity and has been agreed upon that can't change. My only thought is that they make smalls cover level ranges 10-30 and make average 30 and up, but I don't know if that would be an acceptable change.



Large diamonds are a material component, not a gem. It doesn't go into your gem bag and when you filter by components thats where its listed.

The acceptable change, for me, would be to reduce the cost by about 50%, make all levels of the gem purchasable, AND speed the combining of shards up by a factor of at least 50 times. I have, on several occasions, purchased all the tiny shards needed to craft 100 average shards and then crafteed those 100 average shards. It takes a little over 20 minutes of time. That is just unacceptable. I'm playing the game to be in quests not to spend time making spell ingredients.

[Jaid314]

The original "Trap the Soul" from the SRD uses a gemstone of appropriate worth according to the HD of the creature being trapped. TtS is not an Eberron-specific spell, therefore Khyber Shards were something that the Devs decided should be tied to the spell in this setting.

So... yes, they most certainly *could* change it to whatever else they wanted.

in this case, i believe it is actually a faithful transition from pen and paper, to some extent; in eberron, you can indeed use khyber shards for trap the soul, iirc.

[TheDearLeader]

The acceptable change, for me, would be to reduce the cost by about 50%, make all levels of the gem purchasable, AND speed the combining of shards up by a factor of at least 50 times. I have, on several occasions, purchased all the tiny shards needed to craft 100 average shards and then crafteed those 100 average shards. It takes a little over 20 minutes of time. That is just unacceptable. I'm playing the game to be in quests not to spend time making spell ingredients.

I agree that crunching them is incredibly too time consuming. No other spell in the game requires so much preparation or cost investment, and despite this, it still has both a Save component, and a SR Check.

4 times this spell can inconvenience you, 5 if you count finding out that a mob is Immune due to too many HD.

[Saravis]

Now you're splitting hairs.

We're discussing a spell that in its original implementation utilized gemstones.

You say that gems cannot be bought.

We have a gem, that can be bought, and is already a spell component. Its the perfect fit for such a spell, because the game already recognizes it as a component, it has a set cost, and can already be purchased.

Sigh, lol, but thats what I'm saying its not a gem, its a component. If it was thus, it would behave thus, like khybers are classified as ingredients. You're looking too much into the name, the name is simply an establishment of the worth of the component and means nothing beyond that.
This is the classification of gems: http://ddowiki.com/page/Gems
If you want to utilize gems as components, thats what needs to be available. If they are I stand corrected, but please stop using large diamonds as your argument, as I don't even see them listed anywhere in that list.