Shield Bashing

[Valindria]

Let me start of by saying I love the idea of the passive shield attack.

The issue I see is lack of damage and DR bypass of shields. I think passive shield bash should work like glancing blows.

Shield bash (free): You have a 5% chance to add a shield bash into the attack chain. The shield bash damage is Shield damage + 10% of weapon damage.

Improved Shield bash: You gain a 15% chance to attack with your shield (20% total). The damage improves to Shield base + 25% weapon damage.

This would mean when the shield triggers if your main hand can bypass good and silver DR, then so can the shield. Glancing Blow damage would still be better due to the magic chance. TWF would be better due to how often it triggers.

Other ideas:
- Active shield bashing gains a bonus chance to stun enemies and ties in with stunning blow feat. If you have both maybe your shield gains a bonus like a stunning weapon. Has a x% chance to stun on passive attacks.
- Shield KDs.

[Tirisha]

Thought: could you make a dr beating shield with the new crafting system?

[fredericko]

Thought: could you make a dr beating shield with the new crafting system?

I use a shield nearly only against raid bosses (and I would say many tanks do so since meaningful AC against trash mobs is usually way below raid bosses mark). A feat that is supposed to give DPS to shields should work in the context where shields are used, else it is utterly worthless.

[Ralmeth]

Has anyone tested the new improved shield bash with say an epic swashbuckler, levik's defender, etc, to see if you are getting DR against devils, red named and such? If the developers are smart about it, the passive shield bash from improved shield bash should bypass DR so that the feat can be useful.

[Valindria]

Has anyone tested the new improved shield bash with say an epic swashbuckler, levik's defender, etc, to see if you are getting DR against devils, red named and such? If the developers are smart about it, the passive shield bash from improved shield bash should bypass DR so that the feat can be useful.

The only thing I have read said no. I would be interested in testing and a screen shot as well.

[Alanim]

Or perhaps each tier of Stalwart defender and Defender of Siberys could give 5-10% chance of shield bashing each tier?, allowing for 35-50% chance of a secondary shield bash each attack? That sounds like it could help contribute to their DPS somewhat, even though shields are still terrible damage.

[Valindria]

Or perhaps each tier of Stalwart defender and Defender of Siberys could give 5-10% chance of shield bashing each tier?, allowing for 35-50% chance of a secondary shield bash each attack? That sounds like it could help contribute to their DPS somewhat, even though shields are still terrible damage.

Personally, I'd rather have less of a chance of meaningful damage than more of a chance of damage that won't bypass DR. However if the damage got past DR then I woudl be on board with your suggestion.

[Alanim]

Personally, I'd rather have less of a chance of meaningful damage than more of a chance of damage that won't bypass DR. However if the damage got past DR then I woudl be on board with your suggestion.

I didn't say this in my last post, but I 100% agree with this, since currently NO shield bypasses any boss DR, NONE, and I don't think you can get random metals on a shield, so you won't be able to craft one...

So... would you agree with this plan?

1. Add alignment to randomly generated shields.
2. Add metal types to randomly generated shields.
3. If not 1 or 2, allow shields to use weapon properties for bypassing DR.
4. Give named shields more boss bypassing properties, namely silver AND good, not one or the other.
5. increase shield bash rate by 5-10% per rank of DoS and SD.

Does that sound good?

[Alektronic]

I cannot recall the post I read this on, but mithral on shields will count as two other metal subtypes for DR breaking purposes (mithral and ____?). I repost if I happen across that thread, or ever get a chance to play with it on lammy.

[Alanim]

I cannot recall the post I read this on, but mithral on shields will count as two other metal subtypes for DR breaking purposes (mithral and ____?). I repost if I happen across that thread, or ever get a chance to play with it on lammy.

As far as I recall, there are no shields which currently get "Good" and "Silver" and you can't get "good" or any other alignment based effect on a randomly generated shield shield, as far as I remember. Unless you can get flame-touched on it.

[Valindria]

I didn't say this in my last post, but I 100% agree with this, since currently NO shield bypasses any boss DR, NONE, and I don't think you can get random metals on a shield, so you won't be able to craft one...

So... would you agree with this plan?

1. Add alignment to randomly generated shields.
2. Add metal types to randomly generated shields.
3. If not 1 or 2, allow shields to use weapon properties for bypassing DR.
4. Give named shields more boss bypassing properties, namely silver AND good, not one or the other.
5. increase shield bash rate by 5-10% per rank of DoS and SD.

Does that sound good?

Fine as long as long as 3 is implemented.

Basically if you have a good random gen weapon and a silver random gen shield, your shield bash should beat DR good and silver.

[sephiroth1084]

My concerns:
-If the bash attack doesn't bypass DR (it really should be untyped), there isn't much point in having it at all.

-Shields currently don't provide any DPS benefits (excluding a handful of named ones) for bashing and, aside from adamantine, don't provide any DR breaking effects.

-It would be fairly counterintuitive to have to ditch our named shields for randomly generated ones just because the named shields can't bypass DR/provide bashing bonuses.

-Shields already suffer from losing AC bonus for other effects being added to them: when was the last time you saw a +5 Heavy or Mithral Tower shield with really useful additional effects on it (Superior Potency IV or VI, Resistance +3-+5, Protection +5, etc...)? More often, we end up with effects that are too weak to be of use at the ML of the shield, or a lower shield bonus. In either case, the shield isn't worth using.

[Dilbon]

As far as I recall, there are no shields which currently get "Good" and "Silver" and you can't get "good" or any other alignment based effect on a randomly generated shield shield, as far as I remember. Unless you can get flame-touched on it.

Epic Ward of Undeath has flametouched and you can add silver to it.

[Valindria]

My concerns:
-If the bash attack doesn't bypass DR (it really should be untyped), there isn't much point in having it at all.

-Shields currently don't provide any DPS benefits (excluding a handful of named ones) for bashing and, aside from adamantine, don't provide any DR breaking effects.

-It would be fairly counterintuitive to have to ditch our named shields for randomly generated ones just because the named shields can't bypass DR/provide bashing bonuses.

-Shields already suffer from losing AC bonus for other effects being added to them: when was the last time you saw a +5 Heavy or Mithral Tower shield with really useful additional effects on it (Superior Potency IV or VI, Resistance +3-+5, Protection +5, etc...)? More often, we end up with effects that are too weak to be of use at the ML of the shield, or a lower shield bonus. In either case, the shield isn't worth using.

well said. How do you feel about my proposed suggestion?

[sephiroth1084]

well said. How do you feel about my proposed suggestion?

Incorporating base weapon damage in the figure? I'm for that, and that is probably the best solution to my concerns as it addresses all of them pretty well, though I'm not sure the proc rate needs to be dropped to accommodate the extra damage. I mean, a shield bash isn't going to be doing as much as a glancing blow from most 2-handed characters and won't be catching S&B up with TWF and THF even with a little more damage at the original 20% proc rate. Or even at a 100% proc rate, I suspect. Not making an argument for a big boost there, but just that the improved damage doesn't necessitate a reduced trigger chance.

[Valindria]

Incorporating base weapon damage in the figure? I'm for that, and that is probably the best solution to my concerns as it addresses all of them pretty well, though I'm not sure the proc rate needs to be dropped to accommodate the extra damage. I mean, a shield bash isn't going to be doing as much as a glancing blow from most 2-handed characters and won't be catching S&B up with TWF and THF even with a little more damage at the original 20% proc rate. Or even at a 100% proc rate, I suspect. Not making an argument for a big boost there, but just that the improved damage doesn't necessitate a reduced trigger chance.

I don't think it's too much considering of you put two weapons in your hands with no feats you get 20%. This would take a feat to get the 20%.

[Shade]

Actually they fixed the shields not bypassing DR this patch. Even mithral shields will bypass the ol stormreavers dr now.

Why they even bothered i dunno lol.

But yea.. Wanna bypass DR on say the conjoined abishai devastator?

Easy:
Epic ward of undeath

used to be a joke, now its a uber shield! 2d6 +6 base dice FTW, and you can upgrade it to +7!

oh and dont forget the kundarak shield.. Can make that +7 AND break any 1 dr of your choice. Or any Dr in the game on a paly!

lol.

Would bypass the abbots dr, as well as lich sorjek, and some others too.

Or even easier:
Craft holy onto any lootgen shield. Should add "good" to the damage type.

sily sword and boarders. Go THF and be happy.

[wonkey]

Just a thought that I haven't actually seen mentioned.

With the new changes to intimidate, the previously insignificant benefit of being able to bash and still get blocking benefits goes from insignificant to small. Now, you can intimidate, bash away with your +50% hate, and be able to hold your agro buffer for another precious second turtling, before you have to start swinging to hold agro.

This, together with the small dps boost for bashing might make it a worthwhile feat for some builds. It's not among the 'good' feats still, but it's no longer worthless, probably.

[Alabore]

Thought: could you make a dr beating shield with the new crafting system?

Yes.
They also mentioned mithral will bypass silver too.
As it is, you should be able to craft a holy mithral silver shield and use it to bash through DR.

[Alektronic]

Just thought I'd drop by with this convo Eladrin dropped in a few times on. A little bit more details on the offensive properties of shields in U9. And yes, mithral is good bypass silver as well. This is starting to look better and better for SB =].