Shouldn't Heighten work with new spells with saves - like Firewall...

[redraider]

I noticed Heighten does not affect the new saves on spells.

Take Firewall. A 20 Wiz Archmage with a 39 int (I forgot to take the capstone when I re-enhanced...) with no evocation focus feats - The new Firewall has a 30 reflex save. Heighten has no affect, which it should.

Heighten affects cone of cold, sunburst, and ball lightning.

I think the Devs need to ensure the spells where saves were added, have appropriate meta-magics applied.

Fix the new firewall please.

[Infant]

Hi redraider,

I noticed Heighten does not affect the new saves on spells.

Take Firewall. A 20 Wiz Archmage with a 39 int (I forgot to take the capstone when I re-enhanced...) with no evocation focus feats - The new Firewall has a 30 reflex save. Heighten has no affect, which it should.

Heighten affects cone of cold, sunburst, and ball lightning.

I think the Devs need to ensure the spells where saves were added, have appropriate meta-magics applied.

Fix the new firewall please.

I don´t think I fully understand you. Why do you want to heighten WoF? It would be 25 more sp for 1 more tick (at most). Or do you want to kite mobs perpendicular to several WoF`s? I fully agree that save-based spells should be heightenable, but in this case (and Crushing Despair btw.) I would rather have have it non-heightenable to prevent occasional non-intended heightening and sp loss. At least until (if) spell-by-spell metamagics are introduced.

Or maybe I miss something? Clarification would be appreciated.

Infant

[MrWizard]

because firewall is very short time now..
because without heighten any high end mob will probably save every time they enter.
most do not sit in walls, but kite through...thus no damage if always saving.

heighten would make sense...should be an option,

[steelblueskies]

yeah if it has a save that makes logical sense, though i imagine it would be worth checking how it reads in srd20 as well. probably always had a save, probably had heighten. think i recalled it would have lasted something like 40 minutes extended. shrugs. add arcane bolt and arcane blast sla's to the should have the reflex dc affected by heighten. that's been my primary point of loathing on those as efficient(or even usable in many places) tools.

[Shade]

Yea you REALLY don't want heigten to apply, nor does any sane person.

The save is only on the first tic, and wall of fire is not a spell you cast for 1 tic (at least not if your a good player)

You cast it, for multiple tics.

So even if your making an ultra low DC build with wall of fire.. It will work just fine. The first tic isn't super relevant.

So please.. Do not apply heigtne to it. The spellpoint cost would never be justified, and I dont like turning off heighten each spell cast - no one does given taht there is a long delay in doing so.

Perhaps once they fix metas to allows us to apply them specificly 1 certain spells before hand, and hotkey them as such, sure enable it.

In the current implementation.. No.. You don't want it. We don't want it. An extra 25 SP, for somethign that won't effect 14 out of 15 tics - Not a good investment.

[Shade]

because without heighten any high end mob will probably save every time they enter.

no they wont.

I have no idea where your coming from there.

But heres a tip you should know as a caster:
High level monsters almost never have very high reflex saves.
Will saves? Sure. Fort saves? You bet. Reflex? No.

What has pretty good (but not that high) reflex saves? Rogue type enemies/ranger type enemies - not nearly as common as caster/melee enemies, not as dangerous, nor should the first tic matter on rangers especially, since they tend to stand very still while fireing there bows off.

Mine was landing in epics just fine everywhere I went, with a measly DC35 on a non-speciealized wizard. Savant sorcs specd for it with have no issues.

[coolpenguin410]

because firewall is very short time now..
because without heighten any high end mob will probably save every time they enter.
most do not sit in walls, but kite through...thus no damage if always saving.

heighten would make sense...should be an option,

Kite them lengthwise. Problem solved. Only one save and then continuous damage.

[steelblueskies]

you use heighten for something other then cc and instakill? guess i can see using firewall on a pile of held mobs, might be more efficient than a pair of mass holds and a ton of arcane bolts depending on what epic you were soloing.

configurable spell meta arrangements . i still want that soo badly. it would be a pain in the backside to setup the first time, and after a tr, but ah the power of small customizations like that.

should eventually have this as an option if we get meta customization. it has its places and uses.

and as to kiting lengthwise , casting a WoF lengthwise between you and an approaching mob should be SOP.
but all it takes is one of the little ai retards going a little to far off to the side to require a recast then.

and shade stop posting it's fine if it's fine for a sorc. you, junts, and gog. you already said you are jumping ship from wizzy to sorc. hard to imagine things like this not being just one more straw on that one.

dc on wof IS usually fine if you were managing in epic raid level content(even if it was still rough going.). running echrono with an enchant dc of 39 was doable too. doesn't mean it was the most efficient or reliable thing in the world.

and besides, if they allowed heighten to apply to this, then maybe i wouldn't see save and evade so danged much in inspired quarter and thereabouts when throwing arcane bolt and blast about..

i can have ulterior sympathetic motives too :P

[Kralael]

Oh, by the way, Incendiary cloud is the new firewall.

[shagath]

Oh, by the way, Incendiary cloud is the new firewall.

Firewall is so popular because it works so well in middle level content and helps you save some spell points. Incendiary cloud is pretty high level spell.

[Aerendil]

If you want to ensure mobs fail the saves, one of the spells changed in the spell pass (I want to say mind fog?) now gives -5 reflex save if memory serves. So maybe throw that up first before you kite through the firewall.

Unsure if it's worth the sp investment for a second spell just to ensure the first one gets the highest damage tics available, but could be worth it.

But yeah, as has been covered already, you don't want heighten.

[steelblueskies]

If you want to ensure mobs fail the saves, one of the spells changed in the spell pass (I want to say mind fog?) now gives -5 reflex save if memory serves. So maybe throw that up first before you kite through the firewall.

Unsure if it's worth the sp investment for a second spell just to ensure the first one gets the highest damage tics available, but could be worth it.

But yeah, as has been covered already, you don't want heighten.

good point, IF they changed it so fog spells aren't burned away by firewall, like web no longer is.
if that is not the case then one might as well suggest using ice storm and firewall together for all the good.

but you might be right there.

now about the sla arcane bolt and blast... the reflex saves, no heighten.. oh well.

[coolpenguin410]

If you want to ensure mobs fail the saves, one of the spells changed in the spell pass (I want to say mind fog?) now gives -5 reflex save if memory serves. So maybe throw that up first before you kite through the firewall.

Solid Fog