Deconstruction ratios seem poor

[pjw]

Deconstruct 'Holy Burst' -> get ~ 30 Good Beams
Construct 'Holy Burst' <- consume ~ 1000 Good Beams

This seems like a very poor return. I could understand losing 50-70%, but 97% loss seems a tad high.

Or does this vary with level?

[FlyingTurtle]

Looks good to me... you don't want "Holy Burst of Pure Good" to suddenly become equivalent to trash.

[Ziindarax]

Looks good to me... you don't want "Holy Burst of Pure Good" to suddenly become equivalent to trash.

That may be so, but on the other hand, it shouldn't feel like an impossible grind either. I mean, wouldn't it make more sense if, as you become more proficient in a field of crafting, you could extract more materials from the item you are deconstructing so long as the property being extracted is in relevant field?

[pjw]

Looks good to me... you don't want "Holy Burst of Pure Good" to suddenly become equivalent to trash.

I think you misinterpret this; 'Holy Burst of PG' is never going to be trash. It is going to become much more common in this system, no matter what the deconstruction ratios are.

The deconstruction ratios merely represent the proportion of very generic elements that went into an items construction that can be retrieved when it is deconstructed. 3% is very low; but is has no chance of stopping the once-rare items becoming more common.

I suspect the 3% is set so that people buy the ingredients from the store (a few thousand TP will get you making wounding/puncturing in no time). Holy Burst/Pure Good or Holy Burst/GEOB will take a little while longer...

[Lleren]

Deconstruct 'Holy Burst' -> get ~ 30 Good Beams
Construct 'Holy Burst' <- consume ~ 1000 Good Beams

This seems like a very poor return. I could understand losing 50-70%, but 97% loss seems a tad high.

Or does this vary with level?

Ah, but how many good beams do you get from deconstructing Pure Good, or Righteousness, or Holy.
and are the number of ingredients you get a function of the prefix/suffix yer removing, or the item level, or skill, or some combination.

I have a feeling a lot of players will be deconstructing most things that otherwise they would of sold to a bartender, and even some of the things they would of AH'd before.

Mind you it does seem like a poor return ratio to me, but I expect it won't be that long before folks are making some of the best of the best random weapons they wanted but could never find before.

[eterna1_drag0n]

The ratios are very low and as of now they are not getting better with crafting lvl. As for holy-burst of pure good; You are forgetting the lvl of holy-burst to Craft with reliable success, It is lvl 72, hell pure good is 43! So unless your going to try to just use a 15% enhancement boost and burn ingredient till you get it, it will take some time and resources to get around that lvl of crafting. I spent over 2mill in plat over 4 hours on the AH last night buying and deconstructing last night then crafting to get xp, I managed to get up to low to mid 20's in everything but the curve gets much higher as you go up, caps at lvl 75. The amount of ingredient needed per construct are getting in the 8 : 64 ratios+; where as lower lvls were 1 : 4 & 3 : 16 so the cost/lvl/craft gets really high.
Please make the crafting experience not reset on TR'ing. This crafting system as current is not cheap and not really easy to just go and make what you want. If I continue to lvl the way i'm doing, (I was also using major xp crafting pots) it might take another 10mil plat+ to get trip 75's.
As you can see accounts with multiple plat capped toons will defiantly have a serious curve over starting players for sure. I cannot see how a new player will be able to use this system as random loot will still be much cheaper even given exorbitant Ah prices. because at craft lvl 20, (2 mil plat investment) i'm only making +3 items at 70% success rate, 85 with boost.

[BruceTheHoon]

I'd rather have such low deconstruct ratios than everyone running around with '+5 holy metalline [X] of pure good' a week after the update.

[Khellendros13]

I'd rather have such low deconstruct ratios than everyone running around with '+5 holy metalline [X] of pure good' a week after the update.

As it stands though, the people that have a tonne of plat and can already buy stuff like The Blood Stone, nice twink weapons, craft T3 Shroud items as soon as they have Shards etc are the ones that will get to the highest crafting levels first.

Those players also do not need to bother vendoring loot for plat, where a new player has more of a concern there.

The way I see it, this is going to be huge for the DDO store. I am not sure if I will buy into this at all or not.

IMO everyone should start at crafting level = Character level +5.

[Alabore]

Deconstruct 'Holy Burst' -> get ~ 30 Good Beams
Construct 'Holy Burst' <- consume ~ 1000 Good Beams

As it is, we are much better off disjointing bracers of sustenance.
They give good essences, and they are equally effective when learning recipes.

It should also be mentioned, once you reach mastery in a given recipe, you stop getting crafting xp.
This means you'll often be forced to concentrate on crafting a few shards of every kind, and maybe disjoint what you just crafted.

...

I tried burning a few Lama-point on essences; spent a hefty amount to reach Divine 30, Arcane 20 and Elemental 20.
On hindsight, I should have used those shards on blanks, and then disjointed them to get back some essences.

...

It is a system that rewards small steps over huge leaps.
It could use some extra convenience - such as a vendor for blanks, and direct deconstruction for shards.

But I would tend to agree with the statement above.
When they first introduced guildships, guild level 20 seemed so far away.
With time, we'll see people running with +5 Holy Burst of Greater Bane.

[Girlbrush]

I thought I had hogged a lot of vendor trash and would be able to get my crafting up to a decent level, but I was sorely mistaken. I used them all up, bought whatever extra ingredients from the AH and even collected additional vendor trash on Lamannia itself to try out crafting, and I still have no decent crafted item to show for it. Not to mention that my crafting levels are still very low considering the number of hours I had invested in it (8 Arcane, 8 Elemental, 12 Divine). The only thing I didn't do was to spend TP on ingredients.

This system as it is now is very unfriendly towards new players, which is pretty ironic since the PAX video said its purpose was to introduce them to crafting. Both the mats and the crafting level requirements need to be adjusted.

[Ziindarax]

I thought I had hogged a lot of vendor trash and would be able to get my crafting up to a decent level, but I was sorely mistaken. I used them all up, bought whatever extra ingredients from the AH and even collected additional vendor trash on Lamannia itself to try out crafting, and I still have no decent crafted item to show for it. Not to mention that my crafting levels are still very low considering the number of hours I had invested in it (8 Arcane, 8 Elemental, 12 Divine). The only thing I didn't do was to spend TP on ingredients.

This system as it is now is very unfriendly towards new players, which is pretty ironic since the PAX video said its purpose was to introduce them to crafting. Both the mats and the crafting level requirements need to be adjusted.

Agreed. This crafting system is NOTHING like the one shown in the PAX video. I strongly suggest we lobby the devs to adjust the system to make it more reasonable for ALL players, not just the ones who are willing to pay-2-win.

[Draccus]

The ratio looks perfect if your crafting system is intended to generate increased revenue from TP purchases.

[Cyr]

The ratio can only rationally be explained by also knowing that the ingredients are available in the store.

[dakkon75]

The ratio looks perfect if your crafting system is intended to generate increased revenue from TP purchases.

The ratio can only rationally be explained by also knowing that the ingredients are available in the store.

Lol ouch. Unfortunately this is what it seems but I am trying to keep an open mind in that this is still in "testing" and surely this system as is will not be the one on live. If this is the system that is going on live Turbine might as well put an item designer in the store that you can just use Turbine Points to order custom made equipment that is bound to account.

Example: Ml-2 abilities = 500TP
Ml-4 abilities = 750Tp
Ect........

And poof order your +, prefix, material, type, and suffix and just head to check out with your shopping cart. Sure they said no raid loot will ever be sold in the store, but they never said that you couldn't with enough TP, buy the best random occurring loot in the game.

Would I do that not really, but some other folks would. Can't argue with a company trying to make a buck, just have to come to terms with it.

[Seikojin]

As it is, we are much better off disjointing bracers of sustenance.
They give good essences, and they are equally effective when learning recipes.

It should also be mentioned, once you reach mastery in a given recipe, you stop getting crafting xp.
This means you'll often be forced to concentrate on crafting a few shards of every kind, and maybe disjoint what you just crafted.

...

I tried burning a few Lama-point on essences; spent a hefty amount to reach Divine 30, Arcane 20 and Elemental 20.
On hindsight, I should have used those shards on blanks, and then disjointed them to get back some essences.

...

It is a system that rewards small steps over huge leaps.
It could use some extra convenience - such as a vendor for blanks, and direct deconstruction for shards.

But I would tend to agree with the statement above.
When they first introduced guildships, guild level 20 seemed so far away.
With time, we'll see people running with +5 Holy Burst of Greater Bane.

/signed

[AZgreentea]

Wait, I thought you couldnt use the DDO Store weps in the crafting ritual? I havent been able to test the new system yet, but I thought it was randomly generated items, only.

[Alabore]

Wait, I thought you couldnt use the DDO Store weps in the crafting ritual? I havent been able to test the new system yet, but I thought it was randomly generated items, only.

You can also use the anointed weapons from House J.
I would keep it as it is.

[Jaid314]

seems kinda funny to me. one moment, we have everyone screaming about how overpowered crafting is gonna be, how they hope it's a plat sink (and some are apparently disappointed that it isn't the plat sink they thought it was), and how various raid gear is gonna become obsolete.

then, in the next breath, we have people complaining that it isn't easy enough, it's too much of a plat sink, and nothing good is ever going to be crafted unless you buy turbine points.

sounds like turbine may have landed somewhere in the middle =S

(about the only thing i might change is the ratio of the higher ingredients to the lower ones, since afaict they don't come out of weapons in those ratios and it seems kinda pointlessly silly to have 10 times as many of one ingredient as you could ever possibly used based on the amount of the other ingredient type that you have)

[Feithlin]

I didn't test it but from what I read, I really don't think it's unfriendly to new players. They won't be able to craft a holy burst of greater bane after 2 weeks? Well, they wouldn't have been able to buy it after 6 months. However, instead of selling trash to vendors, they will sell it for a fair price at ah and earn enough money to buy a better equipment. When the fever will have passed a bit, they will start to increase their crafting skill.
It is a big plat sink mainly for those who want the new toy here and now.