Bound? To Character? EVERYTHING?

[sirgog]

IMO most crafted gear should be Binds-to-Character-on-Equip.

That lets you craft good stuff for friends (allowing you to use recipes that your characters have no use for). And it stimulates more trading of items in the game economy.

[Therigar]

Nobody is forced to craft. So complaints that a player doesn't want to spend the time crafting on each and every character are without merit.

Crafting offers the chance to create some very special gear that can have great utility to players. And, it gives the opportunity for players to make gear that fits with their individual needs.

If I spend most of my time playing modules that feature undead then I can make items that benefit me in that environment. If I spend most of my time playing modules that feature devils and demons then I can make items that benefit me in that environment.

I do not think it is unreasonable to restrict the ease with which crafted items can be bought and sold and traded. Look at the fiasco with the Crystal Cove items being sold for plat. Worthless items with high plat values made cheaply and sold for excessive amounts.

We had a huge whine and cry over it so Turbine shut it down.

What on earth would make us want to create a similar situation with crafting?

Even BTC on equip doesn't go far enough because it doesn't remove the probability -- not the possibility, but the probability -- that people will be selling crafted items and getting plat rich as a result. And, although people right now are only salivating at the prospects of crafting that +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Evil Outsider Bane they will go ape freaking insane when the economy blows up because AH prices jump through the roof.

BTA is the least that should occur and BTC is not unreasonable.

[KillEveryone]

BTC is not unreasonable.

It is very unreasonable.

[Ziindarax]

Nobody is forced to craft. So complaints that a player doesn't want to spend the time crafting on each and every character are without merit.

Crafting offers the chance to create some very special gear that can have great utility to players. And, it gives the opportunity for players to make gear that fits with their individual needs.

If I spend most of my time playing modules that feature undead then I can make items that benefit me in that environment. If I spend most of my time playing modules that feature devils and demons then I can make items that benefit me in that environment.

I do not think it is unreasonable to restrict the ease with which crafted items can be bought and sold and traded. Look at the fiasco with the Crystal Cove items being sold for plat. Worthless items with high plat values made cheaply and sold for excessive amounts.

We had a huge whine and cry over it so Turbine shut it down.

What on earth would make us want to create a similar situation with crafting?

Even BTC on equip doesn't go far enough because it doesn't remove the probability -- not the possibility, but the probability -- that people will be selling crafted items and getting plat rich as a result. And, although people right now are only salivating at the prospects of crafting that +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Evil Outsider Bane they will go ape freaking insane when the economy blows up because AH prices jump through the roof.

BTA is the least that should occur and BTC is not unreasonable.

The dowsing rod jig was from selling to VENDORS, not other players. Selling to other players will NOT jeopardize the in-game economy in any way, shape, or form as money is being exchanged from one player to another. And the only way selling these items to vendor would threaten anything is if someone essentially did a real-money trade (that is, they bought the ingredients from the DDO store [WITH their Real-Life money], used those ingredients, and then sold them to a vendor). Even so, either approach requires a greater investment (the latter, though faster, comes at the expense of real life money, and I don't see too many people warming up to this "approach" one bit.) than the Dowsing Rod shenanigans.

[IronClan]

It seems illogical to me to NOT make crafted items BTA. I don't want to see the AH flooded with custom crafted loot. It seems like just another way to drive AH prices up.

Increased availability of something drives prices DOWN not up.

Oh and you guys do realize that we already know their will be unbound crafting right? So the premis that everyone will have to grind crafting XP on every character is already moot! I'm seeing posts about this today and we knew a few hours into yesterday so, maybe read some of the other threads

[Mystera]

BTC is not unreasonable.

It's not only unreasonable, it's absurd. To craft most items you have to dip into multiple schools. How would one create an item from multiple schools if it was bound to character? Level up to 150-300 in one school to craft one prefix / suffix, abandon that school (if that's even possible), and level up to 150-300 in the second school...then rinse and repeat for every item? Or just live with a gimped 1/2 weapon since you don't have the expertise to put the second on?

BTA also has flaws in that it discourages cooperation with other people and promotes a "I'll do it all myself" mentality, which does not make for an enjoyable game and feels more 'grindy'.

Not binding is the only logical solution to promote cooperation and fun. Sounds like this is already how it's implemented according to early reports.

[Alabore]

5000 +1 flaming Khopeshes for 500plat each because someone was getting their crafting XP grind on.

From what I could see, it seems less than likely.
Crafting is regulated by availability of major ingredients; crafting a "simple" +1 flaming weapon requires some experience and a lot of deconstruction.

Even if gear didn't bind, I would deconstruct crafted gear just to get back some ingredients.

...

The interesting part about crafting is, effects do not always follow random loot rules: I could put spearblock on a dagger, and shocking touch on a shield.
On the other hand, I couldn't put fortification on clothing/jewellery, while it was available for shields.
They also added newer effects to the list, such as sonic and thorn guard.

As it is, there is a lot of potential to this new crafting system.
I don't quite like the LOTRO-like experience system; craft to learn crafting proficiency...
I'd like it to scale to character level somehow; maybe granting some initial crafting xp based on character level - but I can see reasons not to.

So far, what you can craft is mostly lowbie fare; an acid touch weapon is barely on par with Korthos gear.
The interesting part about armour is, you can at last strip those useless but nice looking suits we've all been hoarding hoping for cosmetic slots.
And at last I can see some point in cosmetic kits: since the suit can grow with your char, it now makes sense to apply a kit to low level gear.

Base metal becomes much more valuable; a raw adamantine plate or maul can be good foundation for further crafting.
I am not positive, but from preliminary tests masterwork quality would not be erased by disjunction - which makes for some interesting lowbie combinations.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

Your statement must be the April Fool's joke.

It seems illogical to me to NOT make crafted items BTA. I don't want to see the AH flooded with custom crafted loot. It seems like just another way to drive AH prices up.

.

Surely AH being flooded would LOWER prices? But i agree the progression should be BTA> Unbound. We don't have enough space as it is, and apart from that, what, EVERY character would need to grind up crafting levels?

[Therigar]

Players generate plat by finding it as treasure or by selling items they find while adventuring. It does not matter who has the plat -- PC or NPC -- if it is sold.

An especially good game economy will balance income with expenditures so that the total amount of money in circulation remains relatively constant. That does not occur in DDO. The amount of plat is constantly increasing. The single biggest source of plat removal is the AH which takes a commission on anything sold.

The value of an item is not its printed plat value -- it is determined by the cost of manufacture and the demand for the item. If the silver khopesh costs 1,000,000 plat to manufacture it will never drop below that for a selling price regardless of its presumed value. Because at least some mats will have to be obtained via deconstruction the weapons with those desired properties will increase in value. That will drive the cost of manufacture up. That will drive up end value of the manufactured weapon.

It isn't the +4 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Evil Outsider Bane that is the problem. It is the anyplus Holy Burst anyweapon and the anyplus anyweapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane and the anyplus Silver Khopesh that is the problem. These will jump in price.

And they will jump even more if they can make an item that is unbound and can be sold to other players. It will make the 10 to 20 percent players get from vendors look like chump change.

You're going to see these weapons selling for more than the AH can handle and being traded for all sorts of other mats. Why? Because we already have people crying that U9 crafting will mean the end of raid loot.

Raid mats are going to drop in value and U9 crafting items -- especially things to deconstruct that had no value before -- are going to increase in value. If the U9 crafted items are unbound it will drive an even bigger spike.

Will it kill the game -- no. Is it a bad idea -- of course it is.

BTA at the least, BTC or BTC on equip at the most. Unbound, risky idea.

[KillEveryone]

BTA at the least, BTC or BTC on equip at the most. Unbound, risky idea.

I have no problem with BTA. I have no problem with BTC on Equip. These will still allow me to trade among my characters from a crafting character to the one I'd like to have the item for.

I just have a problem with BTC once made with no ability to transfer from one character to another.

Personally, I don't want to have to level every single one of my characters up in a crafting skill just to get something made. I'd rather just have one or one for each discipline.

[Alabore]

It is the anyplus Holy Burst anyweapon and the anyplus anyweapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane and the anyplus Silver Khopesh that is the problem. These will jump in price.

I am not sure about that.
You cannot transfer finished effects.
Holy burst and banes deconstruct to raw ingredients.

Maybe silver khopeshes will see a spike in prices.
Masterwork gear might see some raise too, since it's an inherent metal property, as far as I could tell.

[locus]

Even BTC on equip doesn't go far enough because it doesn't remove the probability -- not the possibility, but the probability -- that people will be selling crafted items and getting plat rich as a result.

Wait, what's wrong with this? Why do you think players spend all that time and effort in MMOs to level crafting?

[sirgog]

Even BTC on equip doesn't go far enough because it doesn't remove the probability -- not the possibility, but the probability -- that people will be selling crafted items and getting plat rich as a result. And, although people right now are only salivating at the prospects of crafting that +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Evil Outsider Bane they will go ape freaking insane when the economy blows up because AH prices jump through the roof.

All trades between players either have no effect on the amount of plat in the economy, or remove some (if carried out through the AH).

Selling BtCoE items on the AH removes the most plat, as people pay through the nose for good items that are then no longer circulated.

Removing all that plat from the game economy then makes items like Bloodstones, Large Scales and the like cheaper in platinum.

[dragonofsteel2]

All trades between players either have no effect on the amount of plat in the economy, or remove some (if carried out through the AH).

Selling BtCoE items on the AH removes the most plat, as people pay through the nose for good items that are then no longer circulated.

Removing all that plat from the game economy then makes items like Bloodstones, Large Scales and the like cheaper in platinum.

What else it does it removes vender trash getting sold, lower the pp being generated. It will change the market, but I dont see it vastly changing much as it is here. I really dont see that many taking up countless hours of grinding or spedning TP to get this stuff. I do see a small % though, really doubt at the cost mats vs breaking weapons down you will see a flood of these items on the market. I guessing the unbound going to even cost more, if you can make them. The only real change I want so far is BTA not BTC. With that change I can live with the grind for leveling up my toon. I just really dont have the time are want to do it on all my toons.

[Alabore]

A few further thoughts.
Teal Deer alert, by the way...

I wanted to try my hand with higher level recipes, so I bought some store ingredients and enhancers.
I spent quite a few Lamannia points, and managed to raise Divine to 30, and both Arcane and Elemental to 20.
I ended up with a lot of low level shards of dubious value.

It would be nice if we could disjunct shards after crafting them; as it is, we need to attach them to an item - which requires some pre-keyed blank - and then disjoint the treated blank to get back some ingredients.
This isn't especially expensive - as it is, some vendor and Store gear can be disjointed; a bunch of Korthos club comes handy as easily gotten blanks.
But it is terribly time consuming...

It wasn't clear to me which recipes/ingredients would BtA and BtC; the store trinket, priced at 5 TP, was fairly easily turned into a handy Trinket of Battle Skill, and was BtA even after crafting.
I guess it's a known feature with BtA gear.

It is also unclear which vendor/Store items can be used as blanks.
If you went the extra mile and bought a +5 sword with TPs, it would be nice if you could use it for crafting; would sure extend its usefulness.

As mentioned before, shards follow different rules from existing random loot.
Weapon-blocks will only work on armour, shields and, oddly enough, weapons - which might be an interesting planned effect to provide dual wielders with some low level DR on their off hand weapon.

The potential issue with Greater Banes or Holy Burst has been circumvented by making it impossible to graft finished effects from one weapon to another.
While it is unclear to me whether overall item level does bear any effect on disjunction, breaking down a Holy Burst PG or any combination of Holy, Pure Good, Righteous or Sustenance, yields the same kind of ingredients.
Maiming is actually a very desirable effect to tear down, since it yields Chaos ingredients, which, among the others, you use in crafting Metalline.

With some thought and extra effort, I could see people reaching 20-30 crafting in a few days, without even having to resort to store-bought ingredients.
I was able to reach 65% crafting chance on Holy.
Some guy was able to craft a Holy of Outsider Bane...
I guess the issue with crafting levels being too much of a grind wouldn't be too pronounced, as long as you do it small step by small step.

It would be nice if we could simply dump vendor trash into some kind of magical recycler, and be given some essences back, by paying a price, as opposed to buying oils and disjoint every single bit of gear.
Wouldn't be too much of a lore breach either...