Developers, Monks Need Love!

[Soleran]

/Agreed.

Monks are perpetually being cuddled with by the devs - enough already. And with crafting coming to handwraps with the old "Greensteel compensation" of ToD rings still in the game, they might need a nerf in that department.

Monks are very powerful currently.

Monks never got greensteel because they couldn't code it into the game, there is no crafting item that will give monks a lit2 so you can sleep easy tonight.

Monks are taking a big ki nerf so you can also sleep easy knowing monks are being nerfed before crafting even goes live.

[DethTrip]

So for all this, you cry about not having top tier DPS. Got it.

Not asking for top tier DPS. You didn't read the list apparently. I, as well as many other monk players, are asking for adequate ki gen, effective stunning fist, and the ninja spy III PRE. To you monk haters, please hijack another thread. This one is to gather ideas of monk issues that need attention. Not a thread for discussing whether you think they need attention or not. If you have no positive ideas, then *&^% off.

[Thuriaz]

Remember, only light monks bypass the largest amount of DR, really Dark Monks got the WORST of the nerf because they have the most costly of Ki abilities and perhaps the weakest enhancement. At the end of the day a pure strength, dump stat wis, light monk gets free metalline handwraps. A dark monks gets.. what honestly without the ki gen, 3d6 sneak attack? Might as well play half elf rogue dilly on a fighter at that point. True a half elf rogue dilly dark monk is excellent sneak attack, all your getting then though a rogue who can't do traps.

So what is a monk now? A barbarian who can't rage, a kensai with a ki bar, or a rogue who doesn't do traps. Sounds pretty gimp to me in any case.

I don't want them to necessarily increase ki gen, but they certainly need to look at the cost to benefit ratio of the stuff that monks DO have.

[Thucydides04]

Barbs? Pontificate please . . .

Not sure if you want me to pontificate, however I will elaborate...

Barbarians as it stands have 1 PRE, and even though it is a nice PrE as it is one of the only PREs that is worth takling all the way to tier 3, barbs are still not at the top of the dps heap. H-Orc helped Barbs out quite a bit, but as it stands now, Fighters and Paladins (against evil outsiders) are at the top of the dps heap. There are 2 barb pre's that have yet to even have tier 1 introduced. There is nothing out there that differentiates a mod 9 barb from an update 9 barb except some gear.

Monks have an awful lot of nice stuff going for them. Some has already been stated above, but the class is one of only two that has improved evasion and sneak attack. Furthermore, it is fairly self sufficient, gets HA enhs, AC is easy to obtain, all of the ki stuff is pretty useful etc. Oh yeah and for a level 20 monk with a monk past life 2d12 is about the best base damage you can get especially since your attack speed is tops in the game.

This class has A LOT going for it right now. The other melee classes need revisited/visited before the monk. Furthermore, the monk should be a free class or favor only class. Classes that you have to pay to unlock will be inherently better because they have additional costs associated with them. Please make monk a f2p class.

[Soleran]

Developers,

Monks need some very serious attention and they need it very soon. This class is probably the most loved in the game but many people are very unhappy with many things about them that still need some serious work. Below is a list of things people would like to see get some much needed attention in the very near future.

1. Ninja Spy III PRE
2. Ki Generation
3. Stunning fist lower than kensei II or III with monk splash
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

My DDO Brethren,

Please sign if you agree and/or leave a reply with the things you would like to see fixed/added for monks and I will add them to the list. Hopefully together we can get something done. Thanks.

On the ki regen note the developers did say they were lowering the cost of elemental strikes rather then increasing them as they lvl up, if ki regen isn't getting boosted then perhaps also special moves also be reviewed to lower their costs as well.

There is another thread also that comments on the monk capstone and one idea is to make the monk capstone work like the oremi necklace rather then a passive 1 ki regen.

[t0r012]

Monks are perpetually being cuddled with by the devs - enough already. And with crafting coming to handwraps with the old "Greensteel compensation" of ToD rings still in the game, they might need a nerf in that department.

how do you figure custom handwraps make up for greensteel? you know how many pairs of random generated metal wraps I have seen. 0, yes ZERO. I've seen maybe 3 pairs of metalline.

How do people think that even with custom handwraps that follow the rules for random loot will "make up for greensteel? What is the last time you saw LitII or even MinII effects on random loot? Oh yeah sorry forgot that 600point lightning strike with all the other electric goodies on a litII is everywhere in the random loot table.
and all that acid stuff plus DR breaking plus stoneskin clickie plus keen and slicing is so common it is sitting on the broker list. sorry but adding holyB and shockB really doesn't compare to greensteel.

face it ToD ring have always been a poor choice over greensteel and custom crafted weapons aren't going to improve the situation till metal handwraps actually start falling with any frequency.

Just to give you an idea of how rare metalline is on HW I pulled a pair about a month ago. really, really crappy pair too. something like +3 metaline of shattermantle or something awful. and they sold for hundreds of thousands of plat on the AH.

[Missing_Minds]

Oh yes, because you should have been granted DR/- like barbs to begin with. Right.
WF pays the price via racial restrictions. And yeap they come on items, but when they come for free do you bother with said items? Didn't think so.
And yet several people rely on FF.
Name one feat that your fists get that no other class gets that is not class granted. AP I can think of only one. You use those AP to gain new curses if you are dark, mimic pots if you are light. Stances don't count as they are an increased knowledge with the side effect of more damage of using that attack. You are granted the 1st lvl for free after all. No one forces you to make them go up. The only "new" attack you have to buy is void. And even that is up to you.
IF you can't kill or stun, I suggest you either re roll or grow a set. Want to be a sarcastic crybaby, go play WoW.

we aren't crying about not having top DPS. we are crying about losing our stuns and our ability to use special moves and strikes that made monks truly unique.

Given the fact that mobs are losing HP, losing immunities, and to sort of make up for it, gaining some AC (I think) but higher DCs... It is called EPIC isn't it?
Oh yeah, none of your attacks have been removed from you. So losing? Right.

There is another thread also that comments on the monk capstone and one idea is to make the monk capstone work like the oremi necklace rather then a passive 1 ki regen.

Now this idea I like.

[Logicman69]

No, they do not. Right now monks are pretty much at the top of the heep. .

Agreed and not signed to the OP. My main monk does plenty of damage, has awsome AC, Evasion, Stunning fist DC of 42, Kukan-Do DC of 40 (will save), Bypasses DR of 90% of the mobs and bosses out there, and supplies USEFULL buffs to the party.
Do I hit as hard as a Barb when I crit? No... and I SHOULDNT BE! But I can hit alot faster, stun them quicker (sometimes before I even get there), and inta-kill at the touch of a button. I can even stun/hold undead! Vampires HATE me!!!

Monks have access to some of the coolest gear out there, with some of the biggest benifits. While we don't have alot of named handwraps, the one we do have are unbelievable (Epic Wraps of Light, Stonedust Handwraps).

If your monk is not dishing out near top DPS, and has a excellent survivabilaty rate, then you need to look at your stats and/or gear and reroll.

[edgarallanpoe]

Given the fact that mobs are losing HP, losing immunities, and to sort of make up for it, gaining some AC (I think) but higher DCs... It is called EPIC isn't it?
Oh yeah, none of your attacks have been removed from you. So losing? Right.

Dead wrong...

By greatly reducing our Ki regen they have essentially removed a lot of our attacks. Several monk players on Lam are reporting that they can't generate enough Ki to use *anything* other than stunning fist. They say the generating the 50 Ki needed for TOD is near impossible.

It is the equivalent of not taking spells away from spellcasters but not giving them enough spell points to cast any spells.

Agreed and not signed to the OP. My main monk does plenty of damage, has awsome AC, Evasion, Stunning fist DC of 42, Kukan-Do DC of 40 (will save), Bypasses DR of 90% of the mobs and bosses out there, and supplies USEFULL buffs to the party.
Do I hit as hard as a Barb when I crit? No... and I SHOULDNT BE! But I can hit alot faster, stun them quicker (sometimes before I even get there), and inta-kill at the touch of a button. I can even stun/hold undead! Vampires HATE me!!!

Monks have access to some of the coolest gear out there, with some of the biggest benifits. While we don't have alot of named handwraps, the one we do have are unbelievable (Epic Wraps of Light, Stonedust Handwraps).

If your monk is not dishing out near top DPS, and has a excellent survivabilaty rate, then you need to look at your stats and/or gear and reroll.

Good luck with this after update 9. Several light Monks are reporting that Ki regen and the DC increase to mobs absolutely cripples their light Monks. You can't use those light attacks if you don't have the Ki.

[t0r012]

Monks have an awful lot of nice stuff going for them. Some has already been stated above, but the class is one of only two that has improved evasion and sneak attack. Furthermore, it is fairly self sufficient, gets HA enhs, AC is easy to obtain, all of the ki stuff is pretty useful etc. Oh yeah and for a level 20 monk with a monk past life 2d12 is about the best base damage you can get especially since your attack speed is tops in the game.

self sufficiency has I think gone out the window. FoL isnt going to be thrown with its ki costs and the finisher ? forget it. wholeness of body, maybe capstone monks with ki regen will be able to use it.

Heal am huh? sure but a monks amp is what 30% total in an of itself. it really isn't that useful. notice the most recent update of solar which drops all but 2 monk levels.

AC easy to obtain? really? ever tried fitting in AC gear on a monk past say gianthold. easy AC stops at 50ish. after that you have to give up a whole freakin' lot to get more, heck I don't even like what I have to give up to get to 50ish standing.

2d12 sweet yes , we are great at fighting all those undead and oozes and 100% fort mobs that are in the end game.

attackspeed fastest in the game? base attack speed maybe but fighters and rogues click that little hasteboost button and bye,bye speed king title.

[Thucydides04]

how do you figure custom handwraps make up for greensteel? you know how many pairs of random generated metal wraps I have seen. 0, yes ZERO. I've seen maybe 3 pairs of metalline.

How do people think that even with custom handwraps that follow the rules for random loot will "make up for greensteel? What is the last time you saw LitII or even MinII effects on random loot? Oh yeah sorry forgot that 600point lightning strike with all the other electric goodies on a litII is everywhere in the random loot table.
and all that acid stuff plus DR breaking plus stoneskin clickie plus keen and slicing is so common it is sitting on the broker list. sorry but adding holyB and shockB really doesn't compare to greensteel.

face it ToD ring have always been a poor choice over greensteel and custom crafted weapons aren't going to improve the situation till metal handwraps actually start falling with any frequency.

Just to give you an idea of how rare metalline is on HW I pulled a pair about a month ago. really, really crappy pair too. something like +3 metaline of shattermantle or something awful. and they sold for hundreds of thousands of plat on the AH.

Lets see...

You start with shocking and holy burst on ALL of your weapons. Then with crafting, you will be able to make the following:

Holy GEOB
Holy GCB
Holy GUB ( not even addressing the mabar wraps here but you get the picture)
Anarchic Burst of GCB
etc.

Or put metalline on all of those. I see plenty of metalline hws. I loot 2-3 pair in chests everytime I TR. Crafting custom weapons from random loot helps monks A LOT.

[t0r012]

Oh yes, because you should have been granted DR/- like barbs to begin with. Right.
WF pays the price via racial restrictions. And yeap they come on items, but when they come for free do you bother with said items? Didn't think so.
And yet several people rely on FF.
Name one feat that your fists get that no other class gets that is not class granted. AP I can think of only one. You use those AP to gain new curses if you are dark, mimic pots if you are light. Stances don't count as they are an increased knowledge with the side effect of more damage of using that attack. You are granted the 1st lvl for free after all. No one forces you to make them go up. The only "new" attack you have to buy is void. And even that is up to you.
IF you can't kill or stun, I suggest you either re roll or grow a set. Want to be a sarcastic crybaby, go play WoW.


Given the fact that mobs are losing HP, losing immunities, and to sort of make up for it, gaining some AC (I think) but higher DCs... It is called EPIC isn't it?
Oh yeah, none of your attacks have been removed from you. So losing? Right.



Now this idea I like.

are we losing strikes? no, just the ability to use them. I'm not saying anything about the DCs on epic , never once did I. What i am complaining about is the loss of the abilities makes monks unique. sure we are granted the first tier of ki elemental strikes whoopde doo. game over , thats so OP everyone should be playing monks now. oh wait , it isn't? darn.

and if you want to keep calling people names chief thats is fine by me, but let the rest of us have a grown up discussion.
if you want to join said discussion please use some logic reason to back up your arguments to back up your claims and when you address them try and argue the point they made.

[KillEveryone]

Bards need more love.

Bards need their PrEs finished.

Monks have a lot more stuff in the game available. Bards have only a few items and those items focus on song regen and isn't worth having.

I don't think monks need more love right now.

[Logicman69]

Good luck with this after update 9. Several light Monks are reporting that Ki regen and the DC increase to mobs absolutely cripples their light Monks. You can't use those light attacks if you don't have the Ki.

I'm already generating more Ki than I know what to do with, and with Oremi's Necklace I can be toped off 95% of the time. If I'm loosing Ki generation on crits, then I'll just adjust my playstyle a bit to compensate. Yes I won't be able to spam Ki attacks whenever I want, I will have to play smarter, take out specific targets, and use my Ki when it's most usefull.

[DethTrip]

Agreed and not signed to the OP. My main monk does plenty of damage, has awsome AC, Evasion, Stunning fist DC of 42, Kukan-Do DC of 40 (will save), Bypasses DR of 90% of the mobs and bosses out there, and supplies USEFULL buffs to the party.
Do I hit as hard as a Barb when I crit? No... and I SHOULDNT BE! But I can hit alot faster, stun them quicker (sometimes before I even get there), and inta-kill at the touch of a button. I can even stun/hold undead! Vampires HATE me!!!

Monks have access to some of the coolest gear out there, with some of the biggest benifits. While we don't have alot of named handwraps, the one we do have are unbelievable (Epic Wraps of Light, Stonedust Handwraps).

If your monk is not dishing out near top DPS, and has a excellent survivabilaty rate, then you need to look at your stats and/or gear and reroll.

You evidently don't realize we are talking after U9 takes effect, not what player's monks currently do. Not sure why all the "top tier" discussion is being thrown into this either. No one complained about wanting top tier dps. The complaints are right there on the list. And again, this thread was made with the intention to create a list of what monk issues players believe need attention. If you do NOT believe that monks need attention, then your comments are not needed or wanted for that matter. If you have some positive ideas, then lets hear them. Haters always have to come into threads and derail them. Quit trolling and find something better to do.

[t0r012]

Bards need more love.

Bards need their PrEs finished.

Monks have a lot more stuff in the game available. Bards have only a few items and those items focus on song regen and isn't worth having.

I don't think monks need more love right now.

Aye bards need love.

but this thread isn't for bards, its for monks.
just because some other class needs love doesn't mean we aren't going to stop lobbying for monks who are getting shorted.

I am actually surprised that with all the uproar the ToD nerf caused that dark monks aren't completely up in arms over this change. The ki gen reduction is a massive reduction in their damage output on the order of magnitude larger than the offhand/doublestrike change.

[edgarallanpoe]

I'm already generating more Ki than I know what to do with, and with Oremi's Necklace I can be toped off 95% of the time. If I'm loosing Ki generation on crits, then I'll just adjust my playstyle a bit to compensate. Yes I won't be able to spam Ki attacks whenever I want, I will have to play smarter, take out specific targets, and use my Ki when it's most usefull.

You don't think the testers on Lam think this way? Again, this isn't what they are reporting...go to the Lam discussions and read the threads. These are not n00bs who don't know what they are doing, these are experienced Monk players and they are reporting that what you propose aint happenin....

[Razcar]

Monks never got greensteel because they couldn't code it into the game, there is no crafting item that will give monks a lit2 so you can sleep easy tonight.

Oh I know. And I can just imagine the hours upon hours that the devs scurried about trying to make it happen. And instead monks got another crafting system geared towards them to "compensate"... The least the poor sods can get now is to keep it along with deconstruction crafting. Holy Burst GEOB with Shocking Burst with Awesome Blast on top. You want Silver with that?

Monks are taking a big ki nerf so you can also sleep easy knowing monks are being nerfed before crafting even goes live.

Don't worry. Knowing the DDO devs you will get some compensation soon for this absolute outrage. Some new nifty Epic handwraps -aquired by killing three 0.25 CR kobolds - that slays everything all the time in 30 feet radius sounds about right.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqVL8blr-rw

[Ghaldar]

No, monks do not need a nerf. They are being nerfed quite severely (more than any other nerf that i can think of). We got nerfed on the ToD (which is fine, i agree with that one) but now taking away the one thing that makes the monk effective? NO NO NO. Lets have any other class take away all their special abilities too and see how people like that? hmmmm,

The monk nerfs pale in comparison to the nerfs of human versatility and evasion in medium armor. Those were game changers. WoP and transmuting also were in my opinion bigger than this. The cloud kill and scroll nerf was a tough one to swallow as well. At least now with nerfs you have respect options. Not like you had to delete and start over like many people did after the batman nerf.