Question: The new Sleep spell -- DC?

[Infant]

The release notes say that the DC of the new Sleep spell is based on comparison of caster level and target level. Anyone, by chance, tested the exact numbers? I think in one of the threads Shade mentioned that it lands reliably, but I'm not sure to which content he refered.

Would low-Cha melee bards be able to land it at-level on n/h/e? (Or even epic?)

Thanks in advance for any information,

Infant

[Shade]

never tested sleep. But it sounds like it would work like dismissal.

I used deep slumber, which is just the higher lvl superior verison of it that ignores caster level vs mob CR.

Spells that use caster lvl vs mob CR work ok on normal quests usually. But almost never on hard/elite/epic, due to the huge boost in CR monsters get.

Deep slumber will bypass that issue and work on higher difficulties for casters with good DCs.. So not, not a low dc bard. It's still just a regular will save CC spell, you still need a good Dc, and thus charisma to land it.

So while the spell works, and has a decent 1 min duration.. It's nothing too hot to bother speciing for to make it work often. Better CC spells for bards remain the various dance spells. Espeically the orb, and irresistable version.

[Infant]

never tested sleep. But it sounds like it would work like dismissal.

I used deep slumber, which is just the higher lvl superior verison of it that ignores caster level vs mob CR.

Spells that use caster lvl vs mob CR work ok on normal quests usually. But almost never on hard/elite/epic, due to the huge boost in CR monsters get.

Deep slumber will bypass that issue and work on higher difficulties for casters with good DCs.. So not, not a low dc bard. It's still just a regular will save CC spell, you still need a good Dc, and thus charisma to land it.

So while the spell works, and has a decent 1 min duration.. It's nothing too hot to bother speciing for to make it work often. Better CC spells for bards remain the various dance spells. Espeically the orb, and irresistable version.

I wasn't assuming that Sleep would become too powerful in any way. What I had in mind was rather that pure melee bards could obtain one more CC-tool through Sleep (near Fascinate). Some more explicit statements about DC's from the devs would be helpful in this concern.

Infant

P.S.: Information aboout DS is much appreciated

[Aashrym]

Deep slumber would work for a bard if it was an enchantment instead of a transmutation. Still a big hit to the save DC's for an enchanter bard.

I was able to land sleep easily on low will save mobs with CR's equal to my level and difficulty with mobs 10 CR's above me. It's seems better for bards while they level when most spells have a lower DC based on highest spell level available.

It's pretty iffy and some mobs are immune to sleep.

[andbr22]

Sooo deep slumber is our new hypno...
new hypno (6 seconds -> LOL)...
They totally nerfed all enchanting wizards -> time to reroll for conjuration and "webizard"...

[Infant]

But 1sp heightened, extended Hypno was so useful sometimes . Hope the devs decide to keep extend on CC spells.

Infant

[Aashrym]

But 1sp heightened, extended Hypno was so useful sometimes . Hope the devs decide to keep extend on CC spells.

Infant

Archmage enchanters still get that, except now it's just a cheap double whammy to set up for another spell. For 1 SP it's still a worthwhile ability. For regular SP costs it's not quite the same.

[Infant]

Archmage enchanters still get that, except now it's just a cheap double whammy to set up for another spell. For 1 SP it's still a worthwhile ability. For regular SP costs it's not quite the same.

Is the will save penalty applied no matter if Hypno lands or not? Otherwise its better then no debuff at all, but not reliable. If I need serious reliable debuffing I the would prefer Crushing despair...

Infant

[Aashrym]

Is the will save penalty applied no matter if Hypno lands or not? Otherwise its better then no debuff at all, but not reliable. If I need serious reliable debuffing I the would prefer Crushing despair...

Infant

The will save penalty applies regardless of saving, but if you reapply hypno after the 6 seconds before the debuff timer runs out the debuff timer will not start over. The debuff timer needs to run out before it is reapplied.

[Infant]

The will save penalty applies regardless of saving, but if you reapply hypno after the 6 seconds before the debuff timer runs out the debuff timer will not start over. The debuff timer needs to run out before it is reapplied.

Thanks for precise information. Found out by testing? If, so, kudos.

At least a free AoE debuff for ench. AM

Infant

[Aashrym]

Thanks for precise information. Found out by testing? If, so, kudos.

At least a free AoE debuff for ench. AM

Infant

Definitely by testing.