Suggestion: Convert metamagic costs to percentage values

[Monkey_Archer]

When i first heard about the reduction of sp costs for most damage dealing spells, i was pretty excited. Unfortunately after going over the actual sp costs, not much has actually changed i terms of nuking capability for endgame spell casters. The reason, obviously, is that metamagics make up the bulk of spell costs (especially for heightened spells), and these remain unchanged.
So i propose the following changes to metamagic costs:

Maximise:

• +100% spell costs instead of +25 spell points.
• Improved maximizing enhancements become -10% per tier instead of -3 sp.
• Efficient maximize items become -5% per tier instead of -2 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -10% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved maximize, an efficient maximize II item, and wizard master of magic would have +50% as opposed to +11 sp.

Empower:

• +75% spell costs instead of +15 spell points.
• Improved empowering enhancements become -10% per tier instead of -2 sp.
• Efficient empower items become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -5% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved empower, an efficient empower II item, and wizard master of magic would have +30% as opposed to +6 sp.

Empower healing:

• +50% spell costs instead of +10 spell points.
• Improved empower healing enhancements become -5% for tier 1&2 instead of -1 sp, and -10% for tier 3 instead of -2 sp.
• Efficient empower healing items become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved empower healing and an efficient empower healing II item would have +20% as opposed to +4 sp.

Heighten:

• +25% spell costs instead of +5 spell points per level of heightening.
• Improved heightening enhancements become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -5% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with both tiers of improved heightening and wizard master of magic would have +10% as opposed to +2 sp per level of heightening.

Quicken/Extend:
Unchanged from 10 sp cost.

And just for comparison here are a few example spells and how much they woul cost under the current live system, the spell pass changes, and this proposal

Example Spell		Current cost	Spell pass 	Proposed change
Burning hands		90		84		19
Scorching ray		55		46		18
Fire Ball		90		85		64
Lightning bolt		90		82		51
Wall of fire		65		75		96
Acid Rain		65		52		69
Ball Lightning		90		80		75
Chain lightning		90		80		88
DB Fireball		90		75		81
Polar ray		85		55		41
Meteor swarm		90		80		110

I suppose some spell base costs might require further altering....

[Shade]

Don't you remember this is how it used to work years ago? Or did you not play back then?

Devs don't really like moving backwards in design, so it's not gonna happen.

The primary reasoning was that higher level spells should not cost signficiantly more then lower level ones, as they're meant to be superior.

Only Issue with the new setup is how how heightened is handled now.

Since some level2/3 nuke heightend to level9, cost massively more then a level9 nuke with the new system, which I don't think is intended.

So I'd propose a change to heighten for nuke spells only.. Perhaps dropping it to +4SP per lvl, instead of 5, while other spells remain the same.

EG:
Now:
Fireball: 15 sp
DBF: 25 SP
Heightened DBF: 35SP
Heightened Fireball: 45SP .. Way too much.
4SP per lvl: 39SP - not bad
New DBF: 33SP

[Angelus_dead]

The primary reasoning was that higher level spells should not cost signficiantly more then lower level ones, as they're meant to be superior.

What makes you think that was the reason?

[Trillea]

Don't you remember this is how it used to work years ago? Or did you not play back then?

Devs don't really like moving backwards in design, so it's not gonna happen.

The primary reasoning was that higher level spells should not cost signficiantly more then lower level ones, as they're meant to be superior.

Only Issue with the new setup is how how heightened is handled now.

Since some level2/3 nuke heightend to level9, cost massively more then a level9 nuke with the new system, which I don't think is intended.

So I'd propose a change to heighten for nuke spells only.. Perhaps dropping it to +4SP per lvl, instead of 5, while other spells remain the same.

EG:
Now:
Fireball: 15 sp
DBF: 25 SP
Heightened DBF: 35SP
Heightened Fireball: 45SP .. Way too much.
4SP per lvl: 39SP - not bad
New DBF: 33SP

1 major problem with having heighten 4 sp per level:

Lvl 20 wiz with Heighten 2 enhancement and wiz capstone: only 1 SP extra per spell level.

If they remove the heighten 2 enhancement, I could agree with this possibly (basically giving all casters the enhancement for free)

[Junts]

Please do this.

At least a variation of this.

Please do this.

[Monkey_Archer]

The primary reasoning was that higher level spells should not cost signficiantly more then lower level ones, as they're meant to be superior.

Only Issue with the new setup is how how heightened is handled now.

Look at comparable heightened spells like say: fireball, ball lightning, DBF. The current live system has them all at the same sp cost, but the higher level spell is superior in damage. Under the new spell pass system, not only do the higher level spells do more damage, but they cost less too. I agree that higher level spells should be more powerful, and more efficient, but they shouldn't make the lower level versions completely obsolete. There is really no reason why any identical spells like fireball vs DBF should do less damage AND cost more, regardless of spell level.

So I'd propose a change to heighten for nuke spells only.. Perhaps dropping it to +4SP per lvl, instead of 5, while other spells remain the same.

Heighten really is the one metamagic that doesnt make any sense in the current implementation... Leaving max/emp as a static sp increase, and making heighten percentage based would accomplish the same goal.

[voodoogroves]

When i first heard about the reduction of sp costs for most damage dealing spells, i was pretty excited. Unfortunately after going over the actual sp costs, not much has actually changed i terms of nuking capability for endgame spell casters. The reason, obviously, is that metamagics make up the bulk of spell costs (especially for heightened spells), and these remain unchanged.
So i propose the following changes to metamagic costs:

Maximise:

• +100% spell costs instead of +25 spell points.
• Improved maximizing enhancements become -10% per tier instead of -3 sp.
• Efficient maximize items become -5% per tier instead of -2 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -10% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved maximize, an efficient maximize II item, and wizard master of magic would have +50% as opposed to +11 sp.

Empower:

• +75% spell costs instead of +15 spell points.
• Improved empowering enhancements become -10% per tier instead of -2 sp.
• Efficient empower items become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -5% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved empower, an efficient empower II item, and wizard master of magic would have +30% as opposed to +6 sp.

Empower healing:

• +50% spell costs instead of +10 spell points.
• Improved empower healing enhancements become -5% for tier 1&2 instead of -1 sp, and -10% for tier 3 instead of -2 sp.
• Efficient empower healing items become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with all 3 tiers of improved empower healing and an efficient empower healing II item would have +20% as opposed to +4 sp.

Heighten:

• +25% spell costs instead of +5 spell points per level of heightening.
• Improved heightening enhancements become -5% per tier instead of -1 sp.
• Wizard master of magic capstone becomes -5% instead of -1 sp.
• Spell casters with both tiers of improved heightening and wizard master of magic would have +10% as opposed to +2 sp per level of heightening.

Quicken/Extend:
Unchanged from 10 sp cost.

And just for comparison here are a few example spells and how much they woul cost under the current live system, the spell pass changes, and this proposal

Example Spell		Current cost	Spell pass 	Proposed change
Burning hands		90		84		19
Scorching ray		55		46		18
Fire Ball		90		85		64
Lightning bolt		90		82		51
Wall of fire		65		75		96
Acid Rain		65		52		69
Ball Lightning		90		80		75
Chain lightning		90		80		88
DB Fireball		90		75		81
Polar ray		85		55		41
Meteor swarm		90		80		110

I suppose some spell base costs might require further altering....

Details not as important as some sort of change similar to this. Please please do this.

/signed

[Myrdin]

I've been thinking along similar lines: percentages would make a lot of sense. Or at least reducing the SP cost of metamagic feats and leaving them as fixed SP numbers.

[AylinIsAwesome]

/signed

[Quarterling]

Two days later, my thunder has been stolen.