Is metamagic really not changing?

[lppmor]

I'm trying a Sorcerer from the start and the new costs for the ray spells are really great. Casters can finally play as casters from the start, instead of having to trust Master's Touch and a good axe.

However, from the point you get Maximize or Empower things start to get bad again. I mean, paying 6 for Scorching Ray really allows you to play as a true caster, but paying 6+25 for a double damage Scorching Ray just spoils the whole spell cost changes. Of course I can play without metamagic, but this is just not right. Double damage should translate into double cost, or something like that..

Releasing Update 9 with all those nice spell changes but keeping matamagic applied as an added cost instead of percent is a bad move (IMO of course).

[Infant]

I'm trying a Sorcerer from the start and the new costs for the ray spells are really great. Casters can finally play as casters from the start, instead of having to trust Master's Touch and a good axe.

However, from the point you get Maximize or Empower things start to get bad again. I mean, paying 6 for Scorching Ray really allows you to play as a true caster, but paying 6+25 for a double damage Scorching Ray just spoils the whole spell cost changes. Of course I can play without metamagic, but this is just not right. Double damage should translate into double cost, or something like that..

Releasing Update 9 with all those nice spell changes but keeping matamagic applied as an added cost instead of percent is a bad move (IMO of course).

I think it is intended to stay so. But of course only the devs know. You can use non-maximized Scorching Ray, Fireball, etc. for trash and switch maximize on before shrines and for bosses.

Infant

[richieelias27]

I'm trying a Sorcerer from the start and the new costs for the ray spells are really great. Casters can finally play as casters from the start, instead of having to trust Master's Touch and a good axe.

However, from the point you get Maximize or Empower things start to get bad again. I mean, paying 6 for Scorching Ray really allows you to play as a true caster, but paying 6+25 for a double damage Scorching Ray just spoils the whole spell cost changes. Of course I can play without metamagic, but this is just not right. Double damage should translate into double cost, or something like that..

Releasing Update 9 with all those nice spell changes but keeping matamagic applied as an added cost instead of percent is a bad move (IMO of course).

Metamagics in D&D are intended to be a flat increase in the cost of a spell by increasing it by 2 levels for empower, 3 levels for Maximize, 1 level for extend, etc. With the translation of memorized spells to spell points for DDO they chose to still keep metamagics as a fixed increase in cost rather than a percentage to allow for increased efficiency for higher level spells with metamagic (for instance, previously an extended level 1 spell was exactly double cost for double duration. As the spell level increases it becomes more efficient to extend than it is to cast the spell twice).

With the way they've muddled the costs of all the spells though I'm not sure what they have planned, if anything, for metamagics.

[lppmor]

With the translation of memorized spells to spell points for DDO they chose to still keep metamagics as a fixed increase in cost rather than a percentage to allow for increased efficiency for higher level spells with metamagic (for instance, previously an extended level 1 spell was exactly double cost for double duration. As the spell level increases it becomes more efficient to extend than it is to cast the spell twice).

I agree. And it was working fine so far. But now with so many changes they will have to change metamagic too to work on the new system.

As I said before, my suggestion is making metamagic adding a percent value to the cost instead of fixed value. But if the devs come with a better idea.. hey, even better

[Morosy]

However you look at it, new update means a lot of spells cost less. So we should complain about that? Oh, you mean

you want them to cost even less now...

[Asketes]

i think their intention is for us to not use them


6+25 = 5 uses of un-maximized scorching ray.

they must think we'll unmaximize/empower everything so our *spell points last longer*


kind of like if we walk slower we can walk for longer periods of time.

the logic is weak, but then again.... *caugh*

[Asketes]

However you look at it, new update means a lot of spells cost less. So we should complain about that? Oh, you mean

you want them to cost even less now...

no it's the fact that it seems half-fast. there isn't a noticeable difference between a spell that costs 48 and 54 to use but now lasts for less time. (pulled numbers out of my head)

[Bogenbroom]

There always was a line where max and/or empower was SP-efficient, now that line is moving, and isn't strictly based on level of spell.

In early game it will make a huge difference, but in end-game no difference at all, because casting speed is as important as damage.

That doesn't, however, take into account spell changes... just SP costs.

[Paleus]

I think what is going on here is that you are trying to play your caster as though there were no change in the spell system. There has been, and its geared towards sustainable low-damage with short-term high burst damage, and also other changes like less of an emphasis on the mass-hold cc style.

With the new update, its efficient to cycle through spells without metamagics on as a way to extend your staying power and sustainable damage over time (not the same as DOT spells). However, if you hit an "oh ****" moment, turn on your metamagics to save yourself quickly by high damage nuking at the expense of spell points.

It's a new way of approaching spells, combined with decreased emphasis on long term DOT + kiting methods of spells, changes to CC, debuffing, and death spells. Naturally, you are going to have to change your approaches to how you use spells. And one of those changes is recognizing that you are not always best served by keeping your metamagics on at all times, but rather picking and choosing when it is in your advantage to turn them on and off. I think this is part of the changes is a good change as it moves people towards actively thinking about how to use their spells rather than the old system of : Start quest, turn on extend+maximize+empower, drop firewall, run around in circles = win.

Though I am concerned about a potential emphasis on treating spell casters like ranged dps in spell form. I have to recognize that this change means my approach to spells may have to change. I personally prefer playing casters as single high-threat target elimination and large group CC, I think this approach is still viable, but its somewhat different from before and there is more flexibility given to the spell dps option.

[Zachski]

You now have to choose between Damage Per Spellpoint and Damage Per Second. Which is pretty much as it should be, IMO.

You can't have both. That's like having your cake and eating it, too.

And before you go "But the melees don't have to choose that..." well, you're not a melee, you're a spellslinging sorcerer who can do things the melees can't.

[lppmor]

i think their intention is for us to not use them

6+25 = 5 uses of un-maximized scorching ray.

they must think we'll unmaximize/empower everything so our *spell points last longer*

Yes, that's my point.

Please notice that I'm not complaining about this. I can easily play without Maximize/Empower and only turn them on in a few occasions when really worth paying 5 times the normal cost to deal double damage.

However, I still believe this is wrong and spoils the whole spell changes.

[Asketes]

yes, That's My Point.

Please Notice That I'm Not Complaining About This. I Can Easily Play Without Maximize/empower And Only Turn Them On In A Few Occasions When Really Worth Paying 5 Times The Normal Cost To Deal Double Damage.

However, I Still Believe This Is Wrong And Spoils The Whole Spell Changes.

Yep

[Farayon]

The truly annoying thing about this is: I want to have all my metamagics on for my SLA's. I don't want my metamagics on at all times for my regular nukes.

It would be so awesome with cherries on top to have a per spell toggle for metas rather than the global toggle only.

[Edyit76]

The truly annoying thing about this is: I want to have all my metamagics on for my SLA's. I don't want my metamagics on at all times for my regular nukes.

It would be so awesome with cherries on top to have a per spell toggle for metas rather than the global toggle only.

this if it was toggle per spell it would be awesome. also before the change the only reason to use the metas was for efficiency, it was cheaper in SP to cast certain spells max and empowered than it was to cast them normaly 2x.

[MrkGrismer]

To be fair, the cost of a meta-magicked spell post update 9 will still be less then the cost of the same metamagic spell pre update 9; with the exception of spells that are having their sp prices increased (those will cost more to be metamagicked because the base costs more).

I do agree that the metas should be multipliers instead of adds, but I think we are overstating this if we call it nerfing metamagics.

[locus]

The truly annoying thing about this is: I want to have all my metamagics on for my SLA's. I don't want my metamagics on at all times for my regular nukes.

It would be so awesome with cherries on top to have a per spell toggle for metas rather than the global toggle only.

Yes, this exactly. Have a setting per spell, even if it's only for slotted spells and reset if you unslot/remove from toolbars. The lag when turning on/off metas is usually not worth it for me to bother micromanaging metas (on top of weapon sets, on top of elemental/max clickies etc).