U9 Zombie/Monk interesting builds

[HellHunterBR]

I'm planning to TR my dark monk and reading U9 release note i got some ideas...
Came up with builds with Monk 13 (NinjaSpy)/ Wizzard (Palemaster) 7
But before, some background about U9 relevant changes to my builds:

Bluff
The bluff skill is now faster to activate, and grants a short duration reduction in threat generation. Repeated bluffs now increment the DC by 1 instead of 4.
The sneak attack vulnerability applied by a successful bluff attempt is no longer removed on damage, and now renders the target vulnerable to sneak attacks for 4 seconds.

Karmic Strike's finisher no longer leaves a monk helpless. The effect has been changed to, "Fire-Dark-Fire Finisher - You have learned to strike at the moment your opponent is the most vulnerable - the same moment your opponent strikes you. This attack is guaranteed to produce critical threat if it hits, but costs 20 hit points to perform."

Shuriken Expertise
Prereqs: Requires one of: Dexterity 13, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken, or Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
Benefit: You are skilled with the use of the shuriken, and have a chance to throw an additional shuriken per throw. The percent chance to throw an additional shuriken is equal to your Dexterity.
Special: Automatically granted to Drow characters at level one. Monks may select this feat at levels 1, 2, or 6 as a selected martial arts class feat.

Shroud of the Zombie
Prerequisites: Wizard Level 6, Wizard Pale Master I
Benefit: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many traits of a zombie. While in this form, you hunger for brains, and gain +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -4 Charisma, and Damage Reduction 5/Slashing. Your unarmed damage is increased by two die steps, but you attack 20% slower than normal. You have +100% critical hit resistance, are healed by negative energy, and are unaffected by positive energy or repair effects, but take double damage from light effects. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purposes of most effects. This ability costs 25 spell points to activate.

I followed two distinct lines: Tank DPS build and non-Tank DPS build

Common builds PROS:
- High survivability (DR from form+instance, immunities from monk+form, 23 spell resistance, etc...)
- Nice secondary features like Abundant step and monk speed
- Self buff and heal
- Access to wands, scrolls and support spells like Dimensional Door
- Can solo most of non-epic content and leveling fast

Common build CONS:
- One very weak spot: Light damage
- Hard to heal by others
- Item dependence to effective casting

Tank build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Undead Warrior
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(13 Monk \ 7 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 227
Spell Points: 468 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    27
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    16
Wisdom               12                    16
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     7
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         2                     7
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  1                     3
Hide                  2                     7
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  4                    10
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     3
Search                1                     3
Spot                  1                     3
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting I
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I

Undead Warrior highlights:
STR: base 27 + 2 zombie + 3 fire instance + 7 item (event gloves) + 2 ship buff +2 potion +2 rage spell = 45
STR: with low HP = 45 + 8 = 53
Stunning blow DC = 10 base + 17 str +10 handwrap = 37 (+4 to DC when low HP = 41)
Wind instance + haste overcomes the -20% attack speed from zombie
Wind instance grants +1 strike chance (Can do a 3xToD if u are lucky )
Unarmed step dice = 4 from lvl 13 monk + 2 from zombie + 1 from past life = 2d12 (1 dice higher from a non-past-life monk lvl 20)
Can sustain boss agroo with high base damage + Orcish Brute Fighting + ToD + damage spells (Firewall + Death aura)
Hard to hit: 50% miss from displacement + 25% incorporeal from Shadow Fade
Fair AC = ~50 with good items
High HP in tank mode = +3 CONS from earth instance + 2 zombie +2 rage. Earth instance can rise unarmed dice to 2d14 (unconfirmed if stacks with zombie)

Undead Warrior strategy:
When tanking use earth instance to get some DR, higher unarmed dice and HP boost
When you are not the main tank use wind instance to get more attack speed and +1 strike chance
When killing trash mobs or low KI use fire instance to get +damage, +ki and + DC on stunning
Keep using fire+ToD+fire->Karmic Strike->iron fist+iron fist+iron- fist->The Trembling Earth
Alternate a dark+dark+dark->finisher to rise negative energy damage
While leveling use maximize and SP boost items, firewalls, etc
After reach level 20 consider to trade Maximize Spell and/or Mental Toughness feats for Toughness (need some testing)

non-Tank build

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Undead Spy 
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(13 Monk \ 7 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 197
Spell Points: 393 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 19
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             11                    13
Dexterity            18                    27
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         13                    16
Wisdom               16                    21
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    12
Bluff                -1                     3
Concentration         1                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  3                     5
Hide                  4                    16
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  0                     5
Listen                3                     9
Move Silently         4                    10
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                1                     3
Search                1                     3
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  0                     1
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Shuriken Expertise


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Master of the Sea
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I

Undead Spy highlights:
DEX: base 27 + 3 wind instance + 7 item (spectral gloves) + 2 ship buff +2 potion = 41
High AC = with protection, dodge and insight AC items you can get 65+ AC
Solid stunning fist DC = 38 = 10 base +6 monk +10 handwrap +12 wis mod (21 base +3 instance +6 item +2 ship +2 pot)
Damage boost with sneak attack
Attack bonus boost when flanking
Wind instance + haste overcomes the -20% attack speed from zombie
Wind instance grants +1 strike chance (Can do a 3xToD if u are lucky ) and attack speed with shurikens
Unarmed step dice = 4 from lvl 13 monk + 2 from zombie + 1 from past life = 2d12 (1 dice higher from a non-past-life monk lvl 20)
Hard to hit:High AC + 50% miss from displacement + 25% incorporeal from Shadow Fade
Water instance -2 STR is suppressed by +2 STR from zombie
Wind instance -2 CON is suppressed by +2 CON from zombie

Undead Spy strategy:
On normal form use Wind instance + Ten Thousand Stars to throw lots of shurikens per second and +1 strike chance with unarmed
On Zombie form user water instance to stun then wind instance to hit
Keep using fire+ToD+fire->Karmic Strike->dark+dark+dark->finisher
While leveling use maximize and SP boost items, firewalls, etc
After reach level 20 consider to trade Maximize Spell feat for Combat Expertise or Precision (need to test precision+karmic strike)


Optimal relevant items:
Handwrap: +10 stunning with a burst or +8 seeker | StoneDust | metaline handwrap (hope some day i will find one)
Ring 1 (undead warrior): Oremi's Ring [Wis +6, Exc Con +1]+ Holy Burst
Ring 1 (undead spy): Nyoko's Band [Wis +6, Exc Dex +1]+ Holy Burst
Ring 2: Sanura's Band [Int +6, Exceptional Int +1 ] + Unholy Burst
Neck (undead warrior): Oremi's Necklace [Con +6, +1 KI on hit, set bonus: +1d6 fire]
Neck (undead spy): Nyoko's Necklace [Con +6, Invisibility (CL:15, 3/3), set bonus: +5 sneak attack -20 theat +2 to-hit]
Belt: Eerie Belt [Superior Efficacy VIII (CL;1, 2/2), Archmagi, set bonus: receive +200% damage from negative energy]
Green Steel Shuriken: Positive+Positive+Positive (Can handle undead + 1/day rise dead + decent damage burst)

[HellHunterBR]

reserved for updates

[doubledge]

needs more cowbell

[sigtrent]

Zombie is terrible for fighting. Really, teh 20% slower... feels more like 50%. Its Sllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwww!!!! Not good for fighting at all. Its real use is as a weak undead form for low level pale masters to use aura with. That and its funny looking.

for a monk its bad times.

Vampire on the other hand at least has a little going for it. I can see that as a decent undead form for unarmed pale masters. Not super a amazing, but it does add a little something to the build archetype.

[HellHunterBR]

Zombie is terrible for fighting. Really, teh 20% slower... feels more like 50%. Its Sllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwww!!!! Not good for fighting at all. Its real use is as a weak undead form for low level pale masters to use aura with. That and its funny looking.

for a monk its bad times.

Vampire on the other hand at least has a little going for it. I can see that as a decent undead form for unarmed pale masters. Not super a amazing, but it does add a little something to the build archetype.

Monk Zombie have the same fist dice of a pure lvl20 monk.
Haste gives 15% enhancement bonus to attack speed and Greater Wind instance gives 12,5% attack speed and +7% double strike chance.

Haste+Wind (27,5 speed boost) overcomes -20% zombie speed and gives you more double strike

[krisz93]

Monk level 13 doesn't give you much, you should swap that for a fighter or rogue level for haste boost and better SA.

Wind stance is nice if you are finesse, but otherwise it is inferior to fire especially now that you can cast haste whenever you want.

[HellHunterBR]

Monk level 13 doesn't give you much, you should swap that for a fighter or rogue level for haste boost and better SA.

Wind stance is nice if you are finesse, but otherwise it is inferior to fire especially now that you can cast haste whenever you want.

Monk 13 gives Diamond Soul;
I really like Diamond Soul but i can live without...
i will consider trade one level in tank build for fighter (give me more feats and haste boost) and one level in spy build for rogue (nice to have some open lock, bluff and more sneaks)

Wind instance is used to overcome zombie -20% penalty plus +7.5% double strike chance. The spy build is a finesse build and the tank build can use wind to get speed, doublestrike without cost (-2 cons instantace canceled by +2 con zombie form). Fire instance has it uses but with oremi`s neck, ki will not be a problem!

tanks for the tips

[efreet5]

First, the zombie penalty to speed is a HUGE penalty. You CAN'T keep aggro with a -20% attack speed penalty unless you ask the others to swing masterwork weapons, even then a FB will probably take aggro.

Secondly, haste and air stance do NOT completely stack. There is a small part that does (~7.5%), but that only brings you back to attacking at normal speed while everyone else is hasted. I don't even know how these penalties/bonuses apply either. If the penalty applies and then it uses the 22.5% bonus on the base after the penalty then you still wouldn't be attacking at full speed. Otherwise, if the bonuses applied to the base before the penalty then you'd attack slightly faster than base attack speed. Everyone else will be attacking 15% above normal attack speed.

Example 1: 1-20%=.8*1.225= .98 which is < 1 or normal attack speed

Example 2: 1*1.225=1.225-.2 (20%)=1.025 or 102.5% attack speed, so slightly faster

Third, a tank that is difficult to heal isn't a good tank. I'd choose just about anything over this current build to tank something, because I'd be able to heal them in some way. Harm is a terrible healing spell because it has short range and you must be directly facing your target or it doesn't work. Heal amp is very powerful and this build can't use it. AC can work, but this build can't get very high ac. DPS is good, but this build will attack too slow. As others have said, you may want to try going 12 wiz/8 monk for the vampire form, because the zombie form just isn't going to work well at all. Either way, this build is not going to be a very good build for tanking much of anything. The concept is there, but this isn't going to perform as well as you think it will.

[krisz93]

Wind Stance speed bonus doesn't stack with Haste.
Undead traits make you immune to enchantment spells, no need for Spell Res.


This is what you want for tanking
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308813

[Alektronic]

I cannot think of any reason a PM needs SR. Wait.... unless you plan on not wearing the shroud. Otherwise, undeads are immune to most (if not all) spell requiring an SR check.

EDIT: What she said^^.

[Bogenbroom]

Re: Vampire... unless I missed something, Vampire form is *not* an upgrade from existing state. It is more of a cushion to the blow that moving Lich form to tier III creates.

Fortunately for me, my PM Wonk is capped already, or I would be very aggravated at losing Lich.

Personally, I would have thought they'd have moved Wraith to Tier I instead, but that is why I don't gamble.

[HellHunterBR]

First, the zombie penalty to speed is a HUGE penalty. You CAN'T keep aggro with a -20% attack speed penalty unless you ask the others to swing masterwork weapons, even then a FB will probably take aggro.

Secondly, haste and air stance do NOT completely stack. There is a small part that does (~7.5%), but that only brings you back to attacking at normal speed while everyone else is hasted. I don't even know how these penalties/bonuses apply either. If the penalty applies and then it uses the 22.5% bonus on the base after the penalty then you still wouldn't be attacking at full speed. Otherwise, if the bonuses applied to the base before the penalty then you'd attack slightly faster than base attack speed. Everyone else will be attacking 15% above normal attack speed.

Example 1: 1-20%=.8*1.225= .98 which is < 1 or normal attack speed

Example 2: 1*1.225=1.225-.2 (20%)=1.025 or 102.5% attack speed, so slightly faster

Third, a tank that is difficult to heal isn't a good tank. I'd choose just about anything over this current build to tank something, because I'd be able to heal them in some way. Harm is a terrible healing spell because it has short range and you must be directly facing your target or it doesn't work. Heal amp is very powerful and this build can't use it. AC can work, but this build can't get very high ac. DPS is good, but this build will attack too slow. As others have said, you may want to try going 12 wiz/8 monk for the vampire form, because the zombie form just isn't going to work well at all. Either way, this build is not going to be a very good build for tanking much of anything. The concept is there, but this isn't going to perform as well as you think it will.

you are right... even with orchid brute fight i cant sustain agroo from a barbarian/fighter with haste and there is no point untranform for tanking... My zombie tank is busted!
Vampire form is not good for tanking builds...

Still, Undead Spy continue valid for non-tank purposes

[Failedlegend]

Couple questions...and comments

1. Why does your NON-Tank build have low Str?

2. Haste Surpasses Air Stance and they don't stack so your better off going Earth for the Higher Constitution, DR & The Boost to Criticals + Jidz = Higher Die Step (Swap to Fire if your ki is getting low)

3. I'd Recommend Monk12/Wizard7 than taking either Rogue 1 or Fighter 1...SR is nice but on a Palemaster its pretty much pointless...Rogue will open up UMD for you which if high enough you can be rocking some nice harm scrolls (As well as all those other fun Toys)...also your going to love the haste boost (AFAIK that stacks with the haste "spell") and Open lock is always nice if you can fit it in. Unless you REALLY need the extra feat in which case take Fighter

4. What made you go with that particular level order? (Just curious)

5. Why Half-Orc?

Half-Orc = +2 Str, -4 int (Thats gotta hurt), -2 Cha, Very dangerous to use enhancements..their THF prowess will never apply to a SS or HW wielding Monk

Human = +/- 0 Extra Feat/Skill Point and their awesome slew of enhancements (minus healing amp of course)

Dwarf = +2 Con, - 2 Cha

Half-Elf = +/- 0 Rogue or Cleric Dilly (Mayvbe Pally but requires Cha 13) a few nice enhancements pulled from Human.

Drow = +2Int/Cha/Dex the Int/Dex are a big boon and the Cha is icing, than you have bonuses with Short Swords and Shrunken expertise for free (mostly pointless but hey its a positive) the -2 Con hurts a bit but far less than the -4 Int from H-Orcs...I could definitely recommend this race if the stats fit (which may be hard on a drow)...and I loathe Drow

Elf = Same as drow but 32(34)pt enabled minus the SS bonuses

Personally I'd go Human or H-Elf.

6. Whats your Spell Selection?

[krisz93]

I see the idea is catching on, allow me to jack this topic to draw some attemption to my build, I believe I was the quickest. Currently leveling on Thelanis.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309362