Tweaks to Pale Master

[Noelemahc]

I think there should be some possible tweaks to Pale Master when looking at what is available to arcanes already in general.

Pale master prestige increases damage for negative energy spells, and crit chance for negative energy spells per tier, up to 9%, but does not increase crit multiplier of those spells. Being that there isn't a negative energy enhancement line like there are elemental enhancement lines, the crit and damage to negative energy spells had to be added to the prestige. The values should be adjusted accordingly with the elemental enhancement lines since the focus on negative energy is the main point of the prestige. Currently right now:

1. Elemental damage enhancement lines go up to 40% damage (pre giving 45%)
2. Elemental crit change enhancement lines go up to 9% (pre giving 9% so on target there)
3. Elemental crit damage enhancement lines go up to 2.25 multiplier (pre only giving 1.5)

After Update 9:

1. Elemental damage enhancement lines go up to 50% damage (pre giving 45% and should be adjusted accordingly since negative is your main focus)
2. Elemental crit change enhancement lines go up to 9% (pre giving 9% so that's ok there)
3. Elemental crit damage enhancement lines go up to 2.25 multiplier (pre only giving 1.5, no change in update but should still be brought in line to 2.25 multiplier)

Also with update Savants are getting spell like abilities for their prestiges just like Pale Master and Archmage have with theirs. However, a concern I have is that Eladrin stated that metamagics will be applying to the Savant spell like abilities (and they do, I've tested them), but:

1. Metamagics do not apply to Pale Master spell like abilities. I'm not sure if it's just Maximize and Empower that don't apply, or all of them do not apply. Since it lists no save on the abilities, but mobs seem to save an awful lot on them, I would assume Heighten doesn't apply either (they save near constantly in amrath or content of similar level against the SLAs but do not on my Wail with a 43 Necro DC).
2. Metamagics do not apply to Archmage arcane bolt (different prestige, but still same issue). I know for sure that Heighten, Empower, and Maximize do not apply, and would also assume Quicken doesn't as well (obviously can't be interrupted, but still casting speed makes a difference).

Another tweak I think could be made is to the Pale Master ToD set. Let's face it, it's kinda sucks. The set grants a +30% damage bonus to all level 9 and under negative energy spells, and +60% bonus for tier 3. Being that the highest level negative energy damage spell is level 6, any superior potency 6 item will work on any and all of them (if a sorc chooses to get necrotic ray or negative energy burst for some reason, he gets same bonus). So really you're only getting +10% damage for a two piece set for having the prestige.

I think the set bonus should be tweaked to be of more use to Pale Masters (currently use Rahkir's since it's more useful with only the first bonus than my actual prestige set bonus is, and there is a problem with that). It should at least get Major or Superior lore for negative energy spells in addition to the potency on it imo to make me want to use it over another prestige set.

Basically just looking to:

1. Have the crit chance/damage be on par with the elemental lines since it is part of the prestige.
2. Have the SLAs of Pale Master and Archmage allow use of the metas like the Savant prestige SLAs do
3. Tweak the ToD set so it's actually worthwhile to a Pale Master. After all we should be using our own set, not another prestige set because their's is better at tier 1 than even our own at tier 2.

Anyway, just random thoughts on a prestige I think needs to be tweaked a bit to give it the same bonuses and benefits other prestiges are currently getting. Honestly don't think it's asking for too much either. A ton of /notsigned to be followed I'm sure.

[aerendhil]

"save or die" effect now do negative damages on save, so, PrE set has more effect now, i suppose.

[donfilibuster]

As it is now, try get a mabar robe/docent next time we see the pumpkin.
Superior void lore is a must-have for PM.

[Noelemahc]

Yeah. After testing out savants and the new spell updates on Lamannia, I think that Pale Masters and Archmages should definitely allow use of meta magics on their spell-like abilities.

[varusso]

There are no increased damage/crit lines for neg energy because PM gets them as part of their PRE. Also, the SLAs for other classes cost SP to use, whereas the PM's cost HP--which is then immediately replenished by your aura, which you pretty much always have up anyway, so the necrotic touch/bolt/blast are essentially free attacks that crit ALOT already (assuming of course you have a crit item like the ornamental dagger etc). They also get amped by potency, etc. I find that I do large amounts of sustainable damage to most mobs (undead obviously excluded) just with my blast/bolt, saving my SP for when I need large amounts of burst or AEO damage (or CCs or whatever).

Add in ConcOp and the torc (which I dont even HAVE yet on this toon), and you get plenty of SP to keep even THAT up. Add in the Mabar cloak on top of THAT?

Not sure PM really needs any adjusting, other than a form at lvl 6 which would actually make lesser death aura worth having -- and we get zombie in u9. Granted, its a more melee-oriented form, but it gives you the self-healing option right away, and gives you more choices later as well (though I dont see choosing it over vamp or lich once they are available).

granted, i have not been able to test the sorc lines myself -- but sorcs are SUPPOSED to be the nukers, and mages are supposed to be the CCs etc, with each being able to branch into the others' niche to a lesser degree in a pinch.

[Jaid314]

just for the record, pale master does include a buff to crit multiplier (or at least says it does). the wiki is wrong about that.

so, to your points:

negative energy base damage bonus: agreed, PrE should probably give either 50% or 55%
negative energy crit chance: yup, same as before.
negative energy crit multiplier: already exists.

negative energy SLAs: no way should they get metamagics, with the possible exception of heighten. they're very strong now, for the cost, and it's unreasonable to ask that we get to match the performance of something like elemental savant (or even evoker archmage) when we don't pay remotely near the same cost. and they already cast very quickly
metamagics (possible exception of heighten) should also not apply to arcane bolt or blast. if you want heavy force damage, go evoker and take the spell-likes.

the ToD set is indeed a pathetic excuse for a set, and could use boosting. i vote for +2 CL on necromancy spells (and spell-likes), personally, or possibly something to buff our defense.

[Noelemahc]

just for the record, pale master does include a buff to crit multiplier (or at least says it does). the wiki is wrong about that.

so, to your points:

negative energy base damage bonus: agreed, PrE should probably give either 50% or 55%
negative energy crit chance: yup, same as before.
negative energy crit multiplier: already exists.

I'm aware it gives bonus to crit multiplier, but it's only 1.5. The prestige gives no further bonus to crit damage. Currently lines go up to 2.25. With the update crit chance lines actually go down to 8% and do not stay at 9%. I'm merely suggesting the prestige should grant the same bonuses as a fully maxed out elemental line (since negative energy is the focus of the prestige, and there are no actual enhancement lines to increase it).

negative energy SLAs: no way should they get metamagics, with the possible exception of heighten. they're very strong now, for the cost, and it's unreasonable to ask that we get to match the performance of something like elemental savant (or even evoker archmage) when we don't pay remotely near the same cost.

Why not? Pale Masters are supposed to be masters of negative energy very much the same way that Savants are the masters of their element. Negative energy is our element. Nobody should be better at casting negative energy the same as nobody should be better at a Savant's chosen element. When Pale Master SLAs are hitting for a consistent 70ish damage and Savants are hitting theirs for 300s without elemental curses, there's a huge discrepancy. Considering we don't get curses to further increase the damage of our spells 75% more (which makes the Savant SLAs outclass Pale Master by an even wider margin), asking for metas isn't that much to ask for.

Granted, when mobs don't save you hit for about 130-150ish maybe, but mobs save pretty often (since heighten does not apply and it is a fort save), and I have a 43 dc necro (on level 9 or heightened spells). Touch dc is still 35 (level 1 spell), bolt dc is 37 (level 3 spell) and blast dc is 39 (level 5 spell). Considering they are fort DCs and the damage done, I'd hardly call that "very strong". If I'm seriously nuking something I'm still using Polar Ray and some times Necrotic Ray. The SLAs just don't do enough legit damage unless you don't mind killing stuff really slowly.

We still pay the cost with hp, which is then paid for by sp to keep the Death Aura up. Savants are casting their SLAs for 1, 3, 6 sp with full meta magics, and we're paying 2, 5, 10 hp for ours with no meta magics. The cost difference between Death Aura to keep up our hp to pay for the spells, and Savant sp cost for the SLAs are really not that far off imo.

the ToD set is indeed a pathetic excuse for a set, and could use boosting. i vote for +2 CL on necromancy spells (and spell-likes), personally, or possibly something to buff our defense.

A +2 caster level wouldn't be that bad either. Would affect spell pen as well so would be a good thing. Either way the ToD set needs to be reworked.

[Requiro]

You forget about PM summons

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309719

After U9 cost in AP to get them will rise.

[Noelemahc]

I didn't even bother with those because I think they are a joke to begin with. Other than the summon that is granted for free by the prestige, I have no others because they just aren't worth the aps. I don't even use Summon Monster spells unless I'm doing it just for giggles. They are way too weak to justify using in my opinion. Basically negative energy is the bread and butter of the prestige, summons could not exist and nobody would notice.

[leadhead]

I didn't even bother with those because I think they are a joke to begin with. Other than the summon that is granted for free by the prestige, I have no others because they just aren't worth the aps. I don't even use Summon Monster spells unless I'm doing it just for giggles. They are way too weak to justify using in my opinion. Basically negative energy is the bread and butter of the prestige, summons could not exist and nobody would notice.

Yeah that is true...maybe that is what needs to be worked on. It would make the class even more unique!


Then again, to really make that work, ddo needs to overhaul npc pathing and controlling altogether.