Implement Intuitive Attack. (For clerics and monks)

[AMDarkwolf]

Intuitive Attack [1] BAB +1 Use Wis modifier instead of Str modifier on attack with simple or natural weapons.

The feat exists out there(Actually found it when surfing around) and its basically the same as weapon finesse, except is wis only and only applies to 'simple' weapons(unarmed included)

Not sure if this is 'overpowered' but i highly doubt it, and would allow monks to get a decent to-hit without sacrificing wis(And therefore, all that monk goodness)

[Alexandryte]

As much as I am for more diversity in feats, I don't think this one would go over so well. Not so much on the player end but ore on the developer end.

Normally STR governs to-hit and damage....it provides no defensive benefits (other than high DC to prevent being tripped)
Dex governs AC, ranged tohit, reflexes and with Finesse, to-hit. It does not govern any DCs for tactical feats.
Wis governs AC for monks, DCs for monk abilities and divine spells, will saves and....

you know what....

screw it

+1

I'm tired of trying to play devils advocate for the day.

[AMDarkwolf]

As much as I am for more diversity in feats, I don't think this one would go over so well. Not so much on the player end but ore on the developer end.

Normally STR governs to-hit and damage....it provides no defensive benefits (other than high DC to prevent being tripped)
Dex governs AC, ranged tohit, reflexes and with Finesse, to-hit. It does not govern any DCs for tactical feats.
Wis governs AC for monks, DCs for monk abilities and divine spells, will saves and....

you know what....

screw it

+1

I'm tired of trying to play devils advocate for the day.

LOL u know what? +1 for having the logic to actually point out how this 'can' be unbalancing. I Do agree with you, but still feel the feat wouldn't be a bad choice. Maybe (For balancing reasons) require weapon finesse as a pre-req(or some useless feat) to cost 2 feat slots instead of one.

[voodoogroves]

Intuitive Attack [1] BAB +1 Use Wis modifier instead of Str modifier on attack with simple or natural weapons.

The feat exists out there(Actually found it when surfing around) and its basically the same as weapon finesse, except is wis only and only applies to 'simple' weapons(unarmed included)

Not sure if this is 'overpowered' but i highly doubt it, and would allow monks to get a decent to-hit without sacrificing wis(And therefore, all that monk goodness)

Heh. Book of Exalted Cheese!

It is pretty strong, from a book known to be wacky out of alignment with much of the rest of the content. The content in there is balanced by some pretty strong RP considerations which don't translate into DDO quite so easily. DDO is somewhat protected from attribute stacking due to the engine, but in PNP one of the more powerful things you can do is apply X stat to Y bonus and feats like this are the gateways towards single-stat builds, etc.

WIS to AC ... and attack ... and all ability DCs ... even just in DDO terms that sounds pretty strong and takes away much of the drawback to putting too much into WIS.

Essentially makes monks far less MAD.

[Angelus_dead]

Intuitive Attack is not an excessive benefit for Monks. They still need 13 str for Power Attack, and should have more for damage. And they need 17 dex for GTWF.

So giving them the option to use Wisdom attack rolls with handwraps and staves (but not kama, shortsword, or shuriken) wouldn't be all that great. Remember that save DCs on specials isn't as important as more Ki to activate specials (str) or higher regular attack rate (dex). Being in a Wisdom stance wouldn't really be a good idea even if it did drive your attack rolls.

And remember that peak Wisdom is less than peak Dexterity or Strength. There is no race with +wis, but some have +str, +dex, or -wis.

PS. Intuitive Attack was suggested for DDO back on the very first day Monks were previewed on the test server, back when using handwraps was a newb trap.

[Letrii]

How is this stronger than Weapon Finesse?

[Talias006]

How is this stronger than Weapon Finesse?

For starters, Dex is the attribute used to govern Weapon Finesse, so now you not only get your AC derived from it, but also your to-hit. As well as a few good skills and a lot of rogue-like skills. So Finesse would just free up your need to invest highly into Strength for your to-hit.

Wisdom, on the other hand, is a key ingredient in most abilities regarding the mind in a non-arcane manner. You have your offensive divine spell DC's, SP for divine based characters (other than Favored Souls), and Will saves. As well as more beneficial skills and some stealth/hidden detection skills. And to top it off, there's your Monk AC bonuses. If you added this it would lessen a Wisdom centric classes need to invest highly into Strength for the to-hit, if not for the damage. This can fall under the Cleric too, since they invest heavily in Wis for their SP's and save DC's. Granted, Clerics have access to Divine Power later on, so this is a moot point at later levels. But would be something to consider as it would be an always-on alternative.

It's an interesting enough ability, but would have to be balanced out with something negative to not make it overwhelming.

[QuantumFX]

It's an interesting enough ability, but would have to be balanced out with something negative to not make it overwhelming.

They weapon types it affects already balances it out. It only affects *simple* weapons.

For a monk that means Unarmed and Quarterstaff. (Shortsword and Longsword = Martial Weapons; Kamas = Exotic) As mentioned above, a Monk is pretty much required to have a 13 STR and a 17 DEX to qualify for Power Attack and Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

If you want to do damage/generate ki you want Sun or Wind stances. If you’re jumping into Sun Stance with this feat, chances are you don’t need it in the first place. And, if you’re jumping into Wind stance chances are that Weapon Finesse would be a better fit. The only monks this would appeal to would be super focused on DC’s. However, you then have ki generation issues to deal with.

Implementing this feat would actually lead in nicely to the Eladrin’s statement that they were thinking of making Ocean Stance the choice for Qstaff using monks. (Also, IIRC this feat requires a good alignment. For monks, a lawful good alignment can actually be a detriment due to the Litany of the Dead and not needing a good alignment to use pure good handwraps.)

For a Cleric/FvS that means every weapon except the ones granted by their choice of faith. (Even Longsword is a better weapon than most of the weapons on the simple weapon list.) If you’re a “Battle Cleric” you’ll be more interested in the Khopesh feat than this one.

[bryanmeerkat]

would lessen a Wisdom centric classes need to invest highly into Strength for the to-hit.

This would be bad why ? Why does the whole game for all melee have to depend solely on strength . In honesty even if this was implemented it would likely be ignored by the min max brigade anyway as building to strength would still be superior than wasting a feat .

[wax_on_wax_off]

This would be bad why ? Why does the whole game for all melee have to depend solely on strength . In honesty even if this was implemented it would likely be ignored by the min max brigade anyway as building to strength would still be superior than wasting a feat .

I could have fun with this one as a divine might using clonk, that's for sure! Though trying to fit the feat in on such feat starved builds would be the real tricky part ... Still, much fun to be had all around!

And before anyone says "oh, it just adds attack and no damage!" Think again, in a majority of content a casting/hybrid cleric doesn't have the raw AB to keep power attack on 24/7 (or even necessarily have it in the feat lineup) so this would add such an amount of AB that power attack could be left on all the time for lots of extra damage!

[sephiroth1084]

I'd like to see this.

[Alabore]

I like the idea of a staff-wielding monk or monk-splash.