Monk Stunning fist

[Creadance]

Would love to see Enhancements for Stunning Fist like fighters for trip and such.

[Tsuarok]

Yeah, they could go something like:

Improved Stunning Fist I
Your strikes against targets under the influence of Stunning Fist grant an additional +1 ki.

Improved Stunning Fist II
Your strikes against targets under the influence of Stunning Fist grant an additional +1 ki, for a total of +2.

Improved Stunning Fist III
Your strikes against targets under the influence of Stunning Fist grant an additional +1 ki, for a total of +3.

Improved Stunning Fist IV
Your strikes against targets under the influence of Stunning Fist grant an additional +1 ki, for a total of +4.

[waterboytkd]

actually, this is a great idea...it could shore up the lack of early enhancements for monks, too!

Improved Stunning Fist 1
Prereq: Monk1, 0 AP, Stunning Fist
Benefit: +1 DC to Stunning Fist. Would also apply to Kukan-Do.

Improved Stunning Fist 2-4
expand as expected
total +4 DC to Stunning Fist/Kukan-Do

Ruthless Monk 1
Prereq: Monk 1, 0 AP, Stunning Fist
Benefit: You get +1 ki per hit when hitting a stunned enemy.

Ruthless Monk 2-4
expand as expected
total +4 ki per hit when hitting stunned enemy

maybe something to boost your other monk abilities, too? seems like upping the DC on ToD would be loved.

maybe make the base ability to all your monk DCs? if so, remove stunning fist prereq (and change name)?

this should be moved to suggestions and ideas forum

[Hecore]

I'd like to see them tweaked this way --

Force of Will I
Ap: 2
Prereqs: Monk 1
Grants a +1 bonus to the DC of your Monk abilities, making it harder for enemies to resist your ki abilities such as Stunning Fist and Breath of the Fire Dragon.

Force of Will II
Ap: 4
Prereqs: Force of Will I, Monk 5
Grants an additional +1 bonus to the DC's of your Monk abilities, increasing the total to +2.

Force of Will III
Ap: 6
Prereqs: Force of Will II, Monk 9
Grants an additional +1 bonus to the DC's of your Monk abilities, increasing the total to +3.

*Special: Force of Will III qualifies for Shintao Monk II, as an alternative to Rise of the Phoenix and Monk Improved Recovery III.*

-----

Channeled Ki I
Ap: 1
Prereqs: Monk 1
Grants a +1 ki bonus when striking an enemy rendered helpless by Stunning Fist.

Channeled Ki II
Ap: 2
Prereqs: Channeled Ki I, Monk 3
Grants a +1 ki bonus when striking an enemy that has been rendered helpless. If rendered helpless by Stunning Fist, the total is +2.

Channeled Ki III
Ap: 3
Prereqs: Channeled Ki II, Monk 6
Grants an additional +8 ki bonus on vorpal strikes (Natural 20). This ability stacks with all previous Channeled Ki enhancements.

Channeled Ki IV
Ap: 4
Prereqs: Channeled Ki III, Monk 9
Grants an additional +1 Ki bonus when striking an enemy. This ability stacks with all previous Channeled Ki enhancements.

*Special: Channeled Ki IV qualifies for Touch of Death, as an alternative to Static Charge, Porous Soul, All-Consuming Flame, and Winter's Touch. Channeled Ki II qualifies for Monk Ninja Spy I as an alternative as well.*

[redspecter23]

These sort of enhancements are long overdue for monks. With the upcoming monk situation, I think it's time to add at least the +DC line to at least come close to the dc that a similar specced multiclass monk will be achieving soon.

[Brannigan]

These sort of enhancements are long overdue for monks. With the upcoming monk situation, I think it's time to add at least the +DC line to at least come close to the dc that a similar specced multiclass monk will be achieving soon.

Agreed especially as lammania currently reports that a 45 dc stun is hardly landing at all on epic now.

[ProdigalGuru]

Multiclass splits that obtain higher DCs already will get access to the early tiers of this as well...

Not sure how this closes the gap?

[Nyvn]

Multiclass splits that obtain higher DCs already will get access to the early tiers of this as well...

Not sure how this closes the gap?

They can't take the enhancement lines from both classes.

[ProdigalGuru]

They can't take the enhancement lines from both classes.

Doesn't say that anywhere in the proposed descriptions...

[wax_on_wax_off]

Doesn't say that anywhere in the proposed descriptions...

It's a good point and an enhancement line that should be exclusive with the fighter stunning blow enhancements.

I'd suggest to split the enhancements up a little bit though:
Up to tier 3 or 4 for:
1. stunning DC (affects stunning fist, kukan-doe and other abilities that stun such as stunning blow)
2. other monk abilities (ToD, ToDespair, finishing moves, shining star)
3. +Ki under some circumstances (whether vs mobs hit with stunning fist, helpless mobs or just on vorpal strikes)

Possibly?

Perhaps make the 50% bonus damage vs helpless give 50% bonus Ki rounded down so at least we'll get a little bit extra Ki on critical hits vs helpless mobs.

[-Zyxas-]

/Enjoy thread.

Hecore's versions seem like the best so far, since the pure +1 ki on helpless per tier from other people's ideas is way too overpowered. The SF enhances also look good.

Adding in this stuff would be a little AP tight for some people (although not so much if they count as prereqs). I still think lowering ki costs for basically everything, as proposed in another thread, would be a better fix than the ki line. The SF and/or monk DC lines are very much needed though.

[redspecter23]

Perhaps add an inherent +1 per tier to monk tactics to the water enhancements for monks, so for tier 4 water, you'd have +4 to stuns (in addition to the +2 you'd get for being in tier 4 water stance) +6 to stun dc in water stance sounds like it might put it into usable status for at least some builds that can get high enough to hit elsewhere.

[-Zyxas-]

Perhaps add an inherent +1 per tier to monk tactics to the water enhancements for monks, so for tier 4 water, you'd have +4 to stuns (in addition to the +2 you'd get for being in tier 4 water stance) +6 to stun dc in water stance sounds like it might put it into usable status for at least some builds that can get high enough to hit elsewhere.

Way too balanced... Me no likes. Would be a huge AP constraint, required on any stunner. Just a separate AP line.
EDIT: Was thinking now, it would be good to give something to water stance since it's basically unusable as the game is now. This seems reasonable, but I think the regular DC or Stun AP line would also be very good. Maybe have 3 tiers of the DC line, and either the first or last water stance (maybe more) wouldn't have a DC bonus.

[redspecter23]

I'm not so sure it's such a bad idea for monks that want to specialize in stunning to be focused on water stance. Fire already imposes a small penalty as it stands. The kind of balance between to hit, damage and ki generation from fire vs. saves, dc and possibly ac from water just feels more balanced than how it is now in my mind. +2 DC in water (+3 compared to fire) is nice, but it just isn't enough right now to sway people away from fire stance.

[Creadance]

I like the Idea of water stance adding to your DC for stunning blows as well as Quivering Palm and such But would like to see enhancements as well for tactics as well.
Considering that at 20th level monk and Shinto 3 and Monkey 4 I am already strapped for enhancement points to spend. I can think of 2 or 3 points I could change out but not many more.

[dpadan17]

i for one would love to see this. Why not have the split for these something like this?

monk tactics I - 3 monk lvls required- +1 to all monk tactics- 1 ap
monk tactics II - 6 monk lvls required- +2 to all monk tactics- 1 ap
monk tactics III- 9 monk lvls required- +3 to all monk tactics- 2 ap
monk tactics IV-12 monk lvls required- +4 to all monk tactics-2 ap

this would make it not too demanding for action points as well as focusing your tactics to make stunning fist/quivering palm, etc.... a little better.

this way you would have a choice in where you want to strengthen your monk....you can make it more tankable or even tactics...whichever you prefer.

i feel this is necessary due to the serious nerf placed upon monks.

[Dilgar]

While you're at it, please look into the DC of eagle claw/unbalancing strike/quivering palm. A dc of 30 at level 20 will pretty much only land if they roll a 1. That's with a 30 wisdom.