Stunning Blow now useless?

[Astraghal]

So is ~6 seconds of 50% more damage worth a feat (or two if you took Quickraw to get the most out of it)?

I'm not on Lammania so if anyone has tested it, what are your thoughts?

[Aeolwind]

I haven't ran the tests, but apparently they now interrupt your attack chain, that may kill it.

But, if that is the case, you could technically 'twitch' using cleave/gcleave/trip/stun & have an added attack in there between the 1,2. With 4, it should be enough to reset the cycle constantly. Dunno what this would mean to DPS though.

[sirdanile]

It flows into your attack chain at the same speed of your normal attacks... and it's totally not worthless.

[crazydamage]

Astraghal. Stunning blow has never been purely about dmg.
Stunning blow has always been about utility.

Recognizing that the Cooldown of SB on barb/fighter is 15 seconds, you are obviously not spamming it to stun everything in sight like a monk does (or did pre u9).
Stunning blow was there so when your caster failed to hold 1 monster in a mob, or one broke free, you were there to stun it to save him the SP of having to dance it.

Of course, exceptionally geared parties where EVERYONE was packing stunning blow / stunning fist could run without any casters at all but that was the exception.

Having said that, I think U9 will be all about Necromancy.

Why bother with savant SLAs or dps when all you have to do is wail 10 guys at once.

For that reason, I think you could safely drop BOTH stunning blow and quickdraw and TR into a necro specced Palemaster.

On the other hand, there is an argument to be made (potentially) for using Lit2 until mobs are under 1000 hp and then swapping to vorpals (i.e. needing quickdraw).
If you do the math 50% mob hp and +50% damage is roughly the same as 300% dmg with 100% mob hp.
Therefore, stunning blow will have the same value relative to its value in u9 (although possibly less depending on the fort saves of monsters and how easy it is to land a stunning blow).

[Shade]

If you do the math 50% mob hp and +50% damage is roughly the same as 300% dmg with 100% mob hp.
.

People good at math would recognize those figures are false.

At least for barbs or anyone two handed.

Old: rolls of 2-20: +200% main dmg only + auto burst, but nothing else is boosted.

New: rolls of 2-14 (epic sos) +50% all damage, glancing blows, bursts, procs, frenzy, you name it. Rolls of 15-20: MASSIVE DAMAGE OMFG YOUR DEAD.

Stunning blow is as good, if not better then in u8.

[Memnir]

It's not a waste at all.
I'll still use it as much as I ever did. Is it a change, yeah. Is it a bad change? No.

Like a lot of things in this update - it'll take some adjustment to get used to everything. But, Stunning Blow has not lost any of it's utility or usefulness in my opinion.

[Cetus]

Stunning blow now is arguably better than it was before, because not only do you still have equal reason to continue stunning regular targets, you now achieve maximum efficiency if you happen to stun a held mob as well- so now your autocritting for 50% more damage.

Obviously, the new mechanic brings forth higher crit profile weapons (more 50% amped crits) and destroys the heavy pick (for tactiticians) which barely ever crits at all.

[crazydamage]

Stunning blow now is arguably better than it was before, because not only do you still have equal reason to continue stunning regular targets, you now achieve maximum efficiency if you happen to stun a held mob as well- so now your autocritting for 50% more damage.

Obviously, the new mechanic brings forth higher crit profile weapons (more 50% amped crits) and destroys the heavy pick (for tactiticians) which barely ever crits at all.

My understanding is that Mass hold in U9 already confers "Helpless state" (+50% dmg) and therefore stunning fulfills the same mop up roll that it did Pre U9

[crazydamage]

People good at math would recognize those figures are false.

At least for barbs or anyone two handed.

Old: rolls of 2-20: +200% main dmg only + auto burst, but nothing else is boosted.

New: rolls of 2-14 (epic sos) +50% all damage, glancing blows, bursts, procs, frenzy, you name it. Rolls of 15-20: MASSIVE DAMAGE OMFG YOUR DEAD.

Stunning blow is as good, if not better then in u8.

The fact is HP/3*DMG = 0.5HP / 1.5 DMG

Of course, I should have mentioned that this doesnt take into account the values of dmg sources relative to the total HP of the monster, or things that were not multiplied by auto crit.

Well actually it applies to all classes.

Rogues sneak attack was not multiplied by autocrit.
Now it is supposed to get boosted +50% (even if not currently working on lammania) , and even if not, the amount of sneak attack dmg relative to the total HP of the monster is higher, so rogues get a boost.

Now that there is no autocrit, kensais will make use of increased threat range.

Barbarians get a boost because the frenzy/deathfrenzy dmg relative to the total HP of the monster is higher, and also a boost IF the frenzy gets +50%.

[Cetus]

My understanding is that Mass hold in U9 already confers "Helpless state" (+50% dmg) and therefore stunning fulfills the same mop up roll that it did Pre U9

ah really?

well thats interesting in of itself....

[Astraghal]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Hopefully we will get some feedback soon, so I can decide whether to keep Stunning Blow when I TR from a Dwarf into a Human or Half-Orc.

[crazydamage]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Hopefully we will get some feedback soon, so I can decide whether to keep Stunning Blow when I TR from a Dwarf into a Human or Half-Orc.

Obviously you go TWF Horc fighter or THF Horc barbarian

[Shade]

Barbarians get a boost because the frenzy/deathfrenzy dmg relative to the total HP of the monster is higher, and also a boost IF the frenzy gets +50%.

It does, as i've already shown in a screenshot where I do over 1000 damage. (2 frenzy dmgs show, both are over 12, thus above the 2d6 limit of regular frenzy)

Youd think with a name like that, youd want to be able to do that kind of damage on your barb too. heh.

[Cetus]

whats also interesting is with this helpless change, spells like greater shout and symbol of stunning would yield the same effect, no?

Also, with horoth pounding on you during a stun- main tanks are also going to take a little bit of extra damage as well- elite might be fun since it scales with difficulty too.

Just a thought.

[Auran82]

My monk will still be a fisting and blowing machine.

[Shade]

whats also interesting is with this helpless change, spells like greater shout and symbol of stunning would yield the same effect, no?

Also, with horoth pounding on you during a stun- main tanks are also going to take a little bit of extra damage as well- elite might be fun since it scales with difficulty too.

Just a thought.

Nope.. Not sure you understand the change.

U8 = Helpless = Monsters are auto crit, and cannot cast spells. Ones with 100% fort are at least still auto burst.

U9 = Helpless = Monsters are not auto crit, not even auto hit. They suffer a major penalty to armor class tho (-4 and no dex bonus to ac).
They take +50% dmg from ALL SOURCES (except possibly rogue sneak attack)
They cannot cast spells.
They can still perform other attacks at full force. (Tho that works differnet for players - players cannot do much of anything except run away when helpless)

Effects which didn't make monsters helpless in the past are not being boosted.

Shout, Greater Shout, Symbol of Stunning, Soundburst and I believe even Blasphemy never rendered a monster nor player helpless. There's no plans to change that far as I know.

They imposed a different status effect.. Called "dazed"

Which simply prevents you or monsters from taking any actions like melee or spells, but does not set them helpless.

[Cetus]

Nope.. Not sure you understand the change. On a temporary hiatus right now, so just kinda updating myself on the fly

U8 = Helpless = Monsters are auto crit, and cannot cast spells. Ones with 100% fort are at least still auto burst.

U9 = Helpless = Monsters are not auto crit, not even auto hit. They suffer a major penalty to armor class tho (-4 and no dex bonus to ac). Hmm..I feel that far too many builds that melee'd (bards perhaps) relied on held and stunned targets too much that they might become adversely affected here in some scenarios now
They take +50% dmg from ALL SOURCES (except possibly rogue sneak attack)
They cannot cast spells.

Effects which didn't make monsters helpless in the past are not being boosted.

Shout, Greater Shout, Symbol of Stunning, Soundburst and I believe even Blasphemy never rendered a monster nor player helpless. There's no plans to change that far as I know.

They imposed a different status effect.. Called "dazed" Oh I get ya, theres a distinction clearly made between daze and helpless then?

Which simply prevents you or monsters from taking any actions like melee or spells, but does not set them helpless.

Comments in red.

[NaturalHazard]

Nope.. Not sure you understand the change.

They take +50% dmg from ALL SOURCES (except possibly rogue sneak attack)
.

do they take 50% more damage from the vorpal strikes? it says over 1000 hp they take 100 bane damage from a vorpal hit, confirmed roll, so if they are helpless does that get multiplied 2?

[Shade]

do they take 50% more damage from the vorpal strikes? it says over 1000 hp they take 100 bane damage from a vorpal hit, confirmed roll, so if they are helpless does that get multiplied 2?

Yea it should work just fine.

So 150 damage.

[NaturalHazard]

Yea it should work just fine.

So 150 damage.

hmmm the chao's blade and brigands cutless is looking better and better.