Cleave and Great Cleave

[Seikojin]

These two feats do not work per the PnP mechanics in the slightest. Understandably as well; code and performance would be terrible if the game had to remember your killing blow and attampt a free attack on an adjacent enemy.

But that leaves us with aoe melee attacks that slow down your attack chain and interrupt your dps.

What ideas would spice up cleave and great cleave to make them more attractive?

Why not make them activated abilities like power attack.
When cleave is on, perhaps it can make all your glancing blows full on blows (with offhand and doublestrike procs).

When Great Cleave is on, you can have increased offhand and doublestrike boosts as well as hate generation.

Or keep them use abilities and increase their range?

Or have them queue into your attack chain so there is no interruption?

[notforyou]

/signed

i alrdy find them fairly useful but ur suggestions would make them that more relevant to more builds

[dkyle]

Why not make them activated abilities like power attack.
When cleave is on, perhaps it can make all your glancing blows full on blows (with offhand and doublestrike procs).

When Great Cleave is on, you can have increased offhand and doublestrike boosts as well as hate generation.

Too much.

Or keep them use abilities and increase their range?

Too little.

Or have them queue into your attack chain so there is no interruption?

Just right.

[Seikojin]

Too much.



Too little.



Just right.

I too would love them tucked into the attack chain. The problem with that is it would be a big nightmare to impliment and put in. It would be sweet if somehow it has a numerical overlay to help players take advantage of the end of their attack chain. So you could in essense end your attack chain, cleave, great cleave, and go right back into attacking with a new chain, with no drop in damage output.

[Templarion]

How about turning Cleave to a barbarian whirlwind?!

Not very useful against one mob because your toon would be moving while attacking but whirlwinding in the middle of group of mobs... that's a different story.

[Seikojin]

I actually wish whirlwind would work just like d2's. I was sad that I spent feats to get to it only to find out it was not cool. LOL

[unfiguroutable]

These two feats do not work per the PnP mechanics in the slightest. Understandably as well; code and performance would be terrible if the game had to remember your killing blow and attampt a free attack on an adjacent enemy.

bucket O'snails anybody?

[somenewnoob]

I like great cleave, but a slight speed up would be pretty sweet. I still use it when I get heavy traffic around me....and it's just cool too see a few enemies go down at once with a big old sword swing!

[Angelus_dead]

These two feats do not work per the PnP mechanics in the slightest. Understandably as well; code and performance would be terrible if the game had to remember your killing blow and attampt a free attack on an adjacent enemy.

There would be absolutely no measurable hardware/software performance penalty to treating Cleave / Great Cleave like the D&D 3.5 versions do.

The reason not to use the D&D 3.5 Cleave definition is because it'd be stupidly useless. +1 attack each time you kill a monster? That's meaningless. Changing them to an AOE melee effect is a good thing.

The key change needed for DDO's Cleave is that effects which increase your attack rate should apply during the Cleave: GTWF, GTHF, Imp Shield Bash, and Doublestrike. In addition any percentage boosts to attack speed should be treated as additional doublestrike and offhand proc.

[AcesWylde]

I tried whirlwind on my tempest, but the delay was just too great, and I only attacked with my main weapon, too much loss of dps. My new horc staff wielder uses cleave/great cleave to great effect, with only a slight pause in my attack change (now if I could only get pugs to fight in the doorways, lol).

I honestly don't think cleave/great cleave are broken enough to warrant developer attention with all the other more seriously broken **** in the game. ;>

[Warinx]

The reason not to use the D&D 3.5 Cleave definition is because it'd be stupidly useless. +1 attack each time you kill a monster? That's meaningless. Changing them to an AOE melee effect is a good thing.

Why is it meaningless? Wow has the same thing ;P

[Warinx]

Make it work like a boost, increasing glancingblow damage by a certain % (maybe 40%?) for 10 seconds with a long cooldown. Effectivly giving 2WFers glancing blow and improving 2HFers glancing blow.

[Letrii]

What about it triggering an attack when a mob dies, regardless of who killed it?

[sephiroth1084]

Why is it meaningless? Wow has the same thing ;P

Because a feat that gives a character +1 attack per monster dying, when we get around 100 attacks a minute, and many monsters are already requiring 5+ attacks to fell as the game progresses just doesn't seem worth a slot.

[Seikojin]

There would be absolutely no measurable hardware/software performance penalty to treating Cleave / Great Cleave like the D&D 3.5 versions do.

The reason not to use the D&D 3.5 Cleave definition is because it'd be stupidly useless. +1 attack each time you kill a monster? That's meaningless. Changing them to an AOE melee effect is a good thing.

The key change needed for DDO's Cleave is that effects which increase your attack rate should apply during the Cleave: GTWF, GTHF, Imp Shield Bash, and Doublestrike. In addition any percentage boosts to attack speed should be treated as additional doublestrike and offhand proc.

I beg to differ on the perf side. The clients are fine, but the amount of data to track kills by the player for Great Cleave to proc would be tremendous strain on the bandwidth of the game.

On the dev side of adding cleave and great cleave to the attack chain; if they made it a turn on thing like power attack, it could alter the attack chain to include aoe swings (like the last two attacks in the animation look when twf).

[sephiroth1084]

I beg to differ on the perf side. The clients are fine, but the amount of data to track kills by the player for Great Cleave to proc would be tremendous strain on the bandwidth of the game.

How would that be any different from the game tracking kills by a player for the kill count?

[Seikojin]

How would that be any different from the game tracking kills by a player for the kill count?

It would have to make the killing blow check, then select a target within range and make a strike attempt against it. Which requires an animation and physics cals off of it. Then that strike would also have to have rule modifiers for offhand and doublestrike procs, and any other effects that can come off a strike. If that enemy dies, it has to do it again. There was a limit to the number of additional swings and bonuses the feats provided iirc, so it would have to track that as well.

It would be a lot less straing and development to make them a toggle on effect that adds keyframes to an animation string.