Give the guilds balance sheets and ways to collect

[Daggerrr]

/not signed. ever.

This would simply lead to more guild drama and more people whining about guilds than ever before.

"Come join our guild, we only charge 1000pp a month not like those other guys!"

Pure garbage for two reasons.

1) Money is easy to make in DDO
2) Guilds are not "all that" in DDO

If you want to donate to your guild then walk up to your guild leader and open a trade window. It really is that simple.


Maybe, if it could be HIGHLY limited like once per week at most. But a Guild announcement would be nice. The same thing as server announcements which is just some text in the top middle of the screen. Only usable by the guild leader of course to prevent abuse/spam. And yes it would only make the announcement to people online.

My proposal is to change the general dynamics of the guilds in DDO. I want to make them "all that".

If you disagree with that on a fundamental level, then yes, you'd have definitely a different idea and I respect that.

[Elyanna]

... now if you and I were officers of the same guild we can certainly discuss what is the best way to organize and I think your point has validity, but we are not discussing how to run a specific guild, we are talking about what capabilities a guild should have.

Based on your logic, since the majority of screening process should be done during recruiting, there should be little to no mechanism for accounting stuff once the members are recruited. I respectfully disagree. For example, it's very rare to have a guild that enforces their application rules very strictly (like you can only bring in someone you know in real life, or you can only have 1 alt and no other), so the majority of the guilds carry a pretty large roster of inactive people (one officer's 5 alts, somebody who one member ran with in a dungeon and seemed nice, but do you REALLY know him/her?).

It's easy to boot players who are totally inactive (not on-line for 2 weeks with no notice, okay, let's boot him/her), but it's hard to boot playrs who are only "tokenly active" and do not contribute much (someone who have 5 mules in the guild and log on each one of them just to shift inventory a bit). So in that instance, you can justify the booting by showing everyone the spreadsheet where this person is not making the required contribution.

Now you say "why do you want to require those people make such contributions, everyone wants to relax and play and just leave each other alone". I agree many people are like that, but there are people who are NOT like that as well. For example, a guild that wants to run a guild wide reward system can do it this way: We pool 6 million plats from all members, then based on the PROPORTION of contributions we give out raffle tickets to members, with possible rewards such as large devil scales or bloodstone. And for those larger guild with more resources, the reward can maybe go as high as flawless red scales or marilith scrolls.

That kind of system will GREATLY encourage activity in the guild. Right now there are similar lotteries and rewards systems in different sizes of guilds, but it's a pain to run those things, but with in game features such organizations can be done much more easily.

A guild without proper organizations can only go so far, with better tools the potential is far, far, far more than what we have so far.

Again the main point is... why not? I've already explained to you with no automatical booting there should be no more abusive behaviors than what we have now, so why not get more capabilities and see what people can come up through their creativity?

Here's the thing...

You mention the inactive alts... THEY DON'T MATTER... It's account based not character based.

This is where there is a huge whole in your proposal. You base it on characters whereas the real basis should be accounts.

And I'm sorry but any good end game guild (aka any guild trying to get to max level) is going to be more organized than using the in game tools and they will have a strict recruiting policy that is followed by the officers.

[ClashM]

I only suggested those things because they could be used for the purposes of the OP for whatever godawful reason you'd want to collect taxes. However, they have more usefulness than forcing the guild to pay taxes so it's sort of a compromise and it adds new useful features for guilds to use. I think the sheet to track contributions would be useful for bookkeeping, because if your TP suddenly explodes by 5k overnight you'd probably want to know why and who to thank right? =)

[Daggerrr]

Here's the thing...

You mention the inactive alts... THEY DON'T MATTER... It's account based not character based.

This is where there is a huge whole in your proposal. You base it on characters whereas the real basis should be accounts.

And I'm sorry but any good end game guild (aka any guild trying to get to max level) is going to be more organized than using the in game tools and they will have a strict recruiting policy that is followed by the officers.

I agree you should have a good recruiting policy and some out of the game tools, but that does not run contrary to my proposal...

You can have both. You can have a good recruiting standard, a massive effort in a website, but you can at the same time have more ingame support. I modified the original post and clarified my proposal. Please take a look and I'm sure you can see it's not as radical as you think.

[Daggerrr]

I only suggested those things because they could be used for the purposes of the OP for whatever godawful reason you'd want to collect taxes. However, they have more usefulness than forcing the guild to pay taxes so it's sort of a compromise and it adds new useful features for guilds to use. I think the sheet to track contributions would be useful for bookkeeping, because if your TP suddenly explodes by 5k overnight you'd probably want to know why and who to thank right? =)

I don't know where you get the tax idea from, I've repeated made clear it's not a tax. I modified my post to clarify on this, take a look again.

[ClashM]

I don't know where you get the tax idea from, I've repeated made clear it's not a tax. I modified my post to clarify on this, take a look again.

I noticed but the main post still kind of suggests taxes. Might be poorly worded? As I understand it you want a system to "encourage" members to pay into a guild bank that sends mail to remind them to do so and basically if they don't the guild leader can take whatever action they deem necessary. I understand that as "not taxes" *Wink wink, nudge nudge.*

But regardless I offered said compromise which seems to add enough useful features to be satisfying while still offering you the tools you're requesting? I missed out on like an hour of this conversation so I may be behind. D=

[Daggerrr]

I noticed but the main post still kind of suggests taxes. Might be poorly worded? As I understand it you want a system to "encourage" members to pay into a guild bank that sends mail to remind them to do so and basically if they don't the guild leader can take whatever action they deem necessary. I understand that as "not taxes" *Wink wink, nudge nudge.*

But regardless I offered said compromise which seems to add enough useful features to be satisfying while still offering you the tools you're requesting? I missed out on like an hour of this conversation so I may be behind. D=

I don't even see where we disagree... lol, like I said in my main post, you offered some good ideas.

[Elyanna]

Only thing wrong is astrals are donated at the guild airship vendor and are only able to be turned in as a minimum of five which with the current drop rate in quests makes them a flipping joke to get other than from the store. Oh which you can't buy less than 5 from the store also so any gotten from questing are still near useless.

Ok so you want to make guilds more useful in game. There's a ton of stuff better to ask for (most of these have been asked for before).

How about a real guild bank for items and plat and such?
How about a guild calendar with ability to schedule guild raids and events including reserving spots?
How about a guild Roster that shows which alts belong to which account but doesn't give details such as login id away?
How about a guild awards for length of membership and other various other notable accomplishments?
How about guild armor/shield or robe design?
How about more guild ranks than we have? I bet some guilds would like to be able to put new members in a probationary rank before making them a full member.

These options, which are off the top of my head, would help the game better than the ability to account for which character/account gave x renown which is truly based on luck of a roll on a random generator.

[ClashM]

I don't even see where we disagree... lol, like I said in my main post, you offered some good ideas.

Oh I see, you changed it again since I last saw it.
Still the original posting might be poorly worded. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying for. Glad you liked my suggestions. =D

[rdasca]

LOL, no, they want you to spend effort to grow guilds, because they don't want everyone to have the same size of guild. They want more capable players who can organize better to have larger guilds, that's why they have a Decay system. My proposal will make guilds who are more capable and organize better stand out more, so the purpose is the same.

/not signed on you OP, for most of the same reasons others have already posted.

As for the above quote, you are wrong on so many levels it is not even funny.

The devs for DDO do not really care about your guild size or about how hard you work on it; otherwise, they would have done two things; first the renown earned would not be totally random and second they would have put in ways to stop easy abuse, such as certain un-named guilds recruiting every new player on Korthos or those who have bought every antique bronze token off the AH and jumped their guild 20 levels in one day. (Both of the before mentioned examples can be found in these very forums)

The decay system is in place to give the appearance of growth, and give a guild something to work towards (if a guild cares to do so) without letting everyone get to level 100 in a week’s time.

Guild rewards are a semi-nice addition to DDO and they have many plusses; however, the amount of grief already introduced into the system is more than enough to deal with, without adding a whole new layer to it.

[Spoonman457]

Do you really play ddo, or do you have more fun with ACCPACK? (accounting software) This idea only appeals to griefers, you have stated that you do not want this to be a pay your dues or be kicked type thing, but how would you stop it from being just that?

How would guild leaders enforce the payment of dues, without the option of kicking the player?

Tp = to real money, a guild could recruit people, require a due of 100tp and after being paid kick the people giving the guild extra tp for no work, would Turbine refund the tp? or remove it from the guild/guildleaders account?

Big guilds do not need, and rarely have dues, and rarely have problems, it seems like this is an idea to make a lazy guild leaders job easier.

Turbine wants it to be hard to get a guild to lvl 100, the harder it is the more people want to get their guild to that lvl, as they see it as a challenge, and there for they buy more renown buff elixirs, which makes Turbine more money.

The idea that another player could force me to pay more money than I already do to play ddo is absurd, a player honors the guild leader by choosing that persons guild to lend their rep to, and to a much lesser degree a player gains some respect for being part of a respected guild, but these gains are not equal, ship buffs are there to make up the difference.

I am a part of a large guild its lvl 52 currently and is increasing by 1 or 2 lvls a week, the guild leader generally buys all the amenities, and airships without asking for donations (we do donate, but that's because we like him) he also gives out loot buffs and renown buffs for free.

Also note that high lvl guilds do not need a lot of members, there are several small guilds (less than 30 members) at lvl 65+ (fewer members = less renown decay + small guild bonus = win ).

/ Not signed

[Saaluta]

/not signed

Everyone in my guild and most people on the Khyber server know that if I can help them out I will. I have given away plat and items when asked and even when not asked usually without a thought of recompense. If we are running an elite TOD and I am running on my ranger, I will help spring for heal scrolls, mana pots, etc to make the run go more smoothly. If someone is looking for that last boot ingredient, I have been known to give it to them knowing that sometime in the future, they will do the same for me. This is what a guild/virtual friendship is all about, not dues or taxes...

So if your guild is asking for dues or taxes of some sort, it may be time to find a new guild

Saal

[DaSawks]

Dear OP. Don't get me wrong. I am just a single guild leader. I may be in the minority. I do love some of your ideas though.

why can't we transfer money between toons more easily... how hard is it to make the shared bank hold money?

Guild master ability to send mass mails

Shared guild bank with contribution tracking system

Guild Mass Mail: Gives the leader or whoever has the power to send out mass emails to all members

I love each of these suggestions.

maybe those are not very good friends, are they?

Every person in our guild are friends first.

[herzkos]

guild dues? really?
oh joy, you're so uber i have to pay to be in your guild with you?
guess i'll stick to pugging and no airship amenities. it's not like quests
are hard to begin with.
nope, no thanks.

[porq]

No.

Too much possibility for abuse.

I object to seeing other player renown / donation contributions. I've seen guilds ran around this concept before, back when I played Guild Wars. If you were a regular contributor to the cause, even if you didn't reach the point it felt like a second job you often would be booted in many guilds if real life interfered with your gaming obligations(obligations, what a dirty word for a video game)
Seeing renown contributions would feel like a step away from the basic community focus of DDO guilds.


Involving real money via astral diamonds / TP infinitely complicates matters. No longer are we dealing with pixel money you can make by the truckloads, trivializing any need for airship amenity upkeep(officers I know pay for this with the plat they find in between the couch cushions), but with real money and real world headaches that ultimately Turbine would have to deal with. Your system isn't intended to be used to grief or take advantage of players, but it will be. Gold dubloons arguably weren't intended to break the ddo bank by overflowing everyone's bags with plat, but it did.

Ultimately, if you want to run a guild dues system that's your prerogative, but don't be surprised when the majority of us don't want developer time wasted on a questionable feature a tiny fraction of the DDO community might want.

[megathon]

I wouldn't be so upset for plat but TP points is where I draw the line. Most TP i get I pay for with real money. I'm not going to pay real money to be in a guild.

[Ungood]

/not signed. ever.

This would simply lead to more guild drama and more people whining about guilds than ever before.

"Come join our guild, we only charge 1000pp a month not like those other guys!"

Pure garbage for two reasons.

1) Money is easy to make in DDO
2) Guilds are not "all that" in DDO

If you want to donate to your guild then walk up to your guild leader and open a trade window. It really is that simple.

Only thing wrong is astrals are donated at the guild airship vendor and are only able to be turned in as a minimum of five which with the current drop rate in quests makes them a flipping joke to get other than from the store. Oh which you can't buy less than 5 from the store also so any gotten from questing are still near useless.

Ok so you want to make guilds more useful in game. There's a ton of stuff better to ask for (most of these have been asked for before).

How about a real guild bank for items and plat and such?
How about a guild calendar with ability to schedule guild raids and events including reserving spots?
How about a guild Roster that shows which alts belong to which account but doesn't give details such as login id away?
How about a guild awards for length of membership and other various other notable accomplishments?
How about guild armor/shield or robe design?
How about more guild ranks than we have? I bet some guilds would like to be able to put new members in a probationary rank before making them a full member.

These options, which are off the top of my head, would help the game better than the ability to account for which character/account gave x renown which is truly based on luck of a roll on a random generator.

/not signed on you OP, for most of the same reasons others have already posted.

As for the above quote, you are wrong on so many levels it is not even funny.

The devs for DDO do not really care about your guild size or about how hard you work on it; otherwise, they would have done two things; first the renown earned would not be totally random and second they would have put in ways to stop easy abuse, such as certain un-named guilds recruiting every new player on Korthos or those who have bought every antique bronze token off the AH and jumped their guild 20 levels in one day. (Both of the before mentioned examples can be found in these very forums)

The decay system is in place to give the appearance of growth, and give a guild something to work towards (if a guild cares to do so) without letting everyone get to level 100 in a week’s time.

Guild rewards are a semi-nice addition to DDO and they have many plusses; however, the amount of grief already introduced into the system is more than enough to deal with, without adding a whole new layer to it.

Do you really play ddo, or do you have more fun with ACCPACK? (accounting software) This idea only appeals to griefers, you have stated that you do not want this to be a pay your dues or be kicked type thing, but how would you stop it from being just that?

How would guild leaders enforce the payment of dues, without the option of kicking the player?

Tp = to real money, a guild could recruit people, require a due of 100tp and after being paid kick the people giving the guild extra tp for no work, would Turbine refund the tp? or remove it from the guild/guildleaders account?

Big guilds do not need, and rarely have dues, and rarely have problems, it seems like this is an idea to make a lazy guild leaders job easier.

Turbine wants it to be hard to get a guild to lvl 100, the harder it is the more people want to get their guild to that lvl, as they see it as a challenge, and there for they buy more renown buff elixirs, which makes Turbine more money.

The idea that another player could force me to pay more money than I already do to play ddo is absurd, a player honors the guild leader by choosing that persons guild to lend their rep to, and to a much lesser degree a player gains some respect for being part of a respected guild, but these gains are not equal, ship buffs are there to make up the difference.

I am a part of a large guild its lvl 52 currently and is increasing by 1 or 2 lvls a week, the guild leader generally buys all the amenities, and airships without asking for donations (we do donate, but that's because we like him) he also gives out loot buffs and renown buffs for free.

Also note that high lvl guilds do not need a lot of members, there are several small guilds (less than 30 members) at lvl 65+ (fewer members = less renown decay + small guild bonus = win ).

/ Not signed

All of the above reasons are why the OP's Idea fails, and fails hard.

Added: and Proq makes a solid point too.

[Falco_Easts]

LOL, no, they want you to spend effort to grow guilds, because they don't want everyone to have the same size of guild. They want more capable players who can organize better to have larger guilds, that's why they have a Decay system. My proposal will make guilds who are more capable and organize better stand out more, so the purpose is the same.

So by making things easier it would make the more organised stand out? I think not.

There are many features I would like added to the game for guilds.

• Mass guild mail.
• Mail/tell to guildy from guild list.
• Marking of characters from the same account somehow.
• Sort out the succesion system so some guilds can have leaders again.
• Donate button to DONATE (not tax/not dues but voluntarily donate) to a pool that will auto renew amenities.

etc...

Your idea does not make the list.

You are trying to ask Turbine to code an inhouse guild rule into the game code. The amount of guilds doing this is minimal I would think so I see no need for it in the game.

[Ungood]

There are many features I would like added to the game for guilds.

• Marking of characters from the same account somehow.
• Sort out the succesion system so some guilds can have leaders again.
• Donate button to DONATE (not tax/not dues but voluntarily donate) to a pool that will auto renew amenities.

These are pretty good ideas.

1) I have been talking with my fellow guild mates, and the idea of knowing who's who's alt has come up quite a bit. So a means to know if you are playing with the GL alt might be a good idea, that way you know if the player is on and active even if the toon that is wearing the crown is not.

2) There has been much talk of a succession system, usurp option, or something along those lines. It is in the works, and Turbine knows inactive guild leaders are a growing issue in the game currently and that "something" needs to be done about this.

3) The idea of something of a similar vein to current way everyone can contribute for an Airship, have another "vendor" in the show room that allows us to just drop money in to auto up-dates the amenities is an idea I support, only because I would use it just to save myself the time of doing each amenity manually. Maybe have a check box so I can set which ones I want to auto update and which ones I don't, just in case I want to let an amenity expire so I can change it without loosing any plat for it's usage.

I had at first thought it might be a good idea to track who donated what, so I could offer reward and praise to those that gave, but I see now I realize that a tracking system would only be used by people like OP to grief guild members. And the game is better off without such a system.

[mournbladereigns]

Right now I think maintaining a spreadsheet manually causes a lot of problems. First of all you have to REALLY TRUST that person. Not only do you have to trust his/her integrity, you also have to trust his/her ability. People make mistakes, you know...

And it's hard for everyone to access that information. I've noticed half of the players are too lazy to go even check the guild website and some of them are not very technology literate, so they find it hard to go on googledoc example. However with an ingame spreadsheet it cannot be manipulated, everyone can view it easily so the loopholes are closed.

As for how Turbine should take a stand on this, this is entirely up to them. That's why I didn't send in an application to join their team, I'm simply making a suggestion and I appreciate your points and inputs.

Why would i trust Turbine to keep track of this information better than a htird party? What if the server is down, what if Turbine messes up, then you have guild people hounding Turbine over stuff that adds nothing to other peoples play experience. If you think this is such a great idea, build a third party site with some nice back-end software to keep track of it, and trust the officers to update it.

I, and most other people, are really not interested in wasting cpu cycles, storage, or maintenance time on running your little guild dictatorship. Seriously.

/notsigned.

If it's important enough to you, you can create a guild website and obtain or write up some software to do this. Surely, a self-less guild member who wants better organization can do this easily using some framework. Letting the devs work on game content.