Haste, Rage, Displacement, etc. should all be doubled duration

[Nick_RC]

Do you keep everyone perma-Displaced? I don't play a bard, but I refuse to do this on my wizards. I give everyone Blur and, if a situation really calls for it I'll hand out Displacement. I often do just before shrining, and losing Extend would eliminate that option.

Extend becomes less common-->Displacement becomes less common-->blindness effects become more important again.

Perma displace looks expensive.... but in reality is worth so much more than the sp used. I keep my lead tank displaced at all times on my bard. Most of the time i keep teh other melees displaced too but keeping it on ur lead tank is crucial. The big zerging barb thats gonna get initial sight agro is the prime target. Alwways always always in 6 man epics it really makes everything so much smoother.

N

[Orratti]

No. Better to double the duration on the pots only.

[Irinis]

I find this incredibly trollish or you are one of those bards who never buffs. Those bards are just lousy. The logistical nightmares of throwing 2 min haste, 2 min displacements, 3 min rage, etc. I agree with Shade about the fact that there are so many incompetent buffers out there and now the devs just removed extend basically from many of the arcanes and divines feat list by these changes. No way will those sorc/wiz keep buffing every two minutes haha who the heck are you kidding. Bards will be casting these buffs because they will have extend that is what is going to happen. If they added mass displacement to the game so I just had 3 buffs to cast that might make up for it either that or double the duration and remove extend so I am not the only one who will be casting these buffs on raids etc.

If extend wasn't needed for rage, haste, displace, focusing chant I'd swap out for better healing or better DCs or better DPS in a heartbeat. We all know how feat-starved Bards are, lol. I could drastically improve my build with just 3 more feats but simply don't have the slots for even one more. Considering dropping extend so I can still heal in epics even with the increased spell damage.

The real problem here is the time it'll take to recast buffs in the middle of battle. That's going to reduce melee dps from the Bard and make the game much more boring.

Maybe once nobody keeps extend anymore they'll notice that buffs need buffing, or maybe they find rage and haste are too much fun and want the game to be more boring. Haste is already slower than it used to be.

All I know is I already run out of level 3 components more often than anything else.

[Ashbinder]

At least they changed the stacking order of your buffs so now you can see when your 2 minutes is up and scream "Hjaste Plz!"

[wax_on_wax_off]

Rubbish if a arcane is in a raid with us and there is no bard available (common) and he doesnt have extend we will get another arcane who does.

They will soon learn.

Maybe you need a haste specced arcane? Personally, I won't take extend on any of my divines or arcanes in all likely hood and chances are no one else will either, who does that leave you with?

[Beethoven]

You want more displacements and hastes?

make more shroud clickies, you whiny *****.

+1. Thanks Junts.

Teamplayer is not as much defined by /only/ what spells and feats a caster carries, it's a mentality. Casters with a strong sense of team-play are likely to keep in mind to recast buffs even if they have a shorter duration. They forget, so what? Can't be bothered about a quick reminder - that really too much to ask? Casters that have no sense of teamplay (and thus refuse to buff less even refresh any buffs) still won't even if they have Extend.

It works both ways though and here is where I agree with Junts; I generally find that those people with a genuine sense (and interest) in team oriented play will also put in the extra effort to have most (if not all) they need as clickies even on their melees, and if only so they can help out by buffing themselves if/when/as necessary.

Also, since we are talking pugs we should keep in mind that not everything is always fun for the caster such as the noise of people insisting they need /every/ buff and /every/ resist in the book even if there is absolutely no function the buff/resist actually fulfills in a specific quest. To name one extreme example: the <unnamed> pugger who was apparently very concerned about getting afraid and thus insisted he needs Remove Fear on top of Greater Heroism.

Most likely Extended buffs will become something that is nice if the caster has it, but generally neither required or expected by the vast majority of people. As for myself, I'll go with tough choice. There are still a couple of spells where I find Extend convenient - buffs mostly, Displacement, Haste and the occasional Fire Shield on my wizard. Divine Power, Prayer and the like on my favored soul.

[Rodasch]

The new BYOH = bring your own hastes?

[sephiroth1084]

Perma displace looks expensive.... but in reality is worth so much more than the sp used. I keep my lead tank displaced at all times on my bard. Most of the time i keep teh other melees displaced too but keeping it on ur lead tank is crucial. The big zerging barb thats gonna get initial sight agro is the prime target. Alwways always always in 6 man epics it really makes everything so much smoother.

N

That is true, but I find it is rarely necessary. In the really tough quests it can be, and in those cases I'll toss out Displacement more freely. I'm certainly not going to carry a feat just for those situations, though.

Wish we'd get a Mass Displacement spell. Or Displacement pots.

[Thuriaz]

I know it's a little late at night, but pardon me, I hear that above level 17 (18?) plat becomes worthless anyway, you should be able to AFFORD your own extend. As for wizards and such, I think I'm going to respec my wizard to Archmage Necro/Enchant and swap out extend for something I might use more efficiently such as empower, or swap out extend and the augmented summon (I know it was a bad feat choice but honestly empower is very blah IMHO and isn't worth the SP for efficiency... and my feats got screwed up out of order) so I can take up a third SF and GSF as an archmage for even more nearly free spells (less sp? heck with all the free spells I won't need that much SP) in any instance extend looks like it's now just not worth taking. It does nothing for me, honestly since most fights do/should last no more than 20 seconds it does nothing for the melee either. I have many a melee and I've never expected haste, even if the build was in dire need of it (read Stalwart Defender) I learned to carry pots.

You telling me your running shroud twice a week, EDQ, etc etc, and you can't afford haste potions... what are you spending the plat on? You should be perma-haste-rage-heroed and with a +3 shield of faith, and a few other potion buffs I probably forgot to list.

Be self sufficient, it makes you MORE valuable to the team, casters can already nearly solo 90% of the content, now they are gonna be able to handle that last 10% so much easier, maybe more melee will be self sufficient.

On the counter to this I believe they SHOULD have a vendor who sells level 20 spell potions at around 100 - 200plat per pot, that'd be a nice plat sink.

::EDITED FOR TYPO::

[grgurius]

Um, did i miss anything? I get it why arcanes are droping extend (well sorcs at least), but why are bards droping it.

Anyway, will have to see if i'm keeping extend on my sorc once i have some time to play on lama, but leaning heavily towards no.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I have extend on my dragonmarked elf kensai/ninja with wizzy splash.. it lets me get 2mins on a Shield spell to avoid those icky MM/FMs & double-duration displacement, so I'll be keeping it at least!

[seobanio]

This thread is hilarious.

You want more displacements and hastes?

make more shroud clickies, you whiny *****.

This.

Dropping extend on all toons that currently have it. Its one of those feats I almost didn't take already, so no big loss really.

[TDarkchylde]

I realize that Extend might be less worth taking to most of you divines and arcanes due to the removal of it as a valid meta for damage spells. (I'm keeping it on mine because it saves SP for my short buffs in the long run).

Still, if I'm leading a raid, no Extended Haste/Displacement/Prayer/Recitation/etc. = reform, find a caster/healer who carries it. Sorry. I'm not going to hear one complain that they have no SP left to keep Cloudkill on a tank, nuke epic Lailat when she goes war, or keep the DPS alive during bats because they burned their bluebar prematurely by trying to maintain unextended short buffs.

It's like a Sorc expecting to keep the Warforged tank up by themselves in Hard/Elite VoD with Reconstruct only available to them as a scroll. If you can't do the job, say so, because finding someone to help take the load off you wastes my time less than a wipe and reform.

[Rodasch]

I realize that Extend might be less worth taking to most of you divines and arcanes due to the removal of it as a valid meta for damage spells. (I'm keeping it on mine because it saves SP for my short buffs in the long run).

Still, if I'm leading a raid, no Extended Haste/Displacement/Prayer/Recitation/etc. = reform, find a caster/healer who carries it. Sorry. I'm not going to hear one complain that they have no SP left to keep Cloudkill on a tank, nuke epic Lailat when she goes war, or keep the DPS alive during bats because they burned their bluebar prematurely by trying to maintain unextended short buffs.

It's like a Sorc expecting to keep the Warforged tank up by themselves in Hard/Elite VoD with Reconstruct only available to them as a scroll. If you can't do the job, say so, because finding someone to help take the load off you wastes my time less than a wipe and reform.

If casting twice as many of those buffs is going to drain them dry of all their spell point resources, the issue isn't extend in the first place. There are very few encounters or raids I can think of that require THAT much time wherein haste, displacement, prayer, recitation, etc need to be maintained in the first place. You don't need them when you're not fighting, and if you're fighting for THAT long, maybe you should have brought those casters you ostracized and let them kill stuff faster for you.

By all means, be close-minded...I'm pretty sure you'll have a harder time finding a caster who fits YOUR mold than the casters will have finding raids/groups that won't treat them like all they have to offer is buffs for you. Or maybe you missed the fact that in U9 arcanes are actually able to put out some serious burst dps, and can insta-kill a lot of stuff you probably used to use a slavering pack of vorpal-wielding melee to kill.

[ElfedLied4]

I'm also planning on dropping extend on my wizard.

One thing that could make it a tough choice again would be if extend didn't add to the casting cost at all.

[TDarkchylde]

If casting twice as many of those buffs is going to drain them dry of all their spell point resources, the issue isn't extend in the first place. There are very few encounters or raids I can think of that require THAT much time wherein haste, displacement, prayer, recitation, etc need to be maintained in the first place. You don't need them when you're not fighting, and if you're fighting for THAT long, maybe you should have brought those casters you ostracized and let them kill stuff faster for you.

By all means, be close-minded...I'm pretty sure you'll have a harder time finding a caster who fits YOUR mold than the casters will have finding raids/groups that won't treat them like all they have to offer is buffs for you. Or maybe you missed the fact that in U9 arcanes are actually able to put out some serious burst dps, and can insta-kill a lot of stuff you probably used to use a slavering pack of vorpal-wielding melee to kill.

This isn't being closed-minded. This is trying to run something and being able to count on the people you're picking to perform a role that you cannot. I'm sure there are some exceptional casters and healers that don't carry Extend. More power to you if you can pull it off. In my experience, however, there are a lot of casters raiding who can barely manage their SP when they have it, and everyone and their brother deciding they might drop it is creating a bad example for those who aren't ready to run without it.

To shorten it, if I'm on a DPS toon and I take casters or healers for a raid, I expect them to do what I would do, as the leader. While keeping a 12-man group perma-Displaced in Vision is a tall order and not something I'd expect, I will at least keep them perma-Hasted and Raged on a caster or bard, or keep Prayer and Recitation up on my divines and I'll expect people I bring along to do the same as the leader.

[Cyr]

This isn't being closed-minded. This is trying to run something and being able to count on the people you're picking to perform a role that you cannot. I'm sure there are some exceptional casters and healers that don't carry Extend. More power to you if you can pull it off. In my experience, however, there are a lot of casters raiding who can barely manage their SP when they have it, and everyone and their brother deciding they might drop it is creating a bad example for those who aren't ready to run without it.

To shorten it, if I'm on a DPS toon and I take casters or healers for a raid, I expect them to do what I would do, as the leader. While keeping a 12-man group perma-Displaced in Vision is a tall order and not something I'd expect, I will at least keep them perma-Hasted and Raged on a caster or bard, or keep Prayer and Recitation up on my divines and I'll expect people I bring along to do the same as the leader.

You are really going to narrow down your potential party members with a stance that excludes those who find better uses for their feat slot then extend. By looking for the maxed out stat in one thing here you are probably going to miss out on a large number of maxed out overall builds and players.

[Alcamez]

Most people who pug ou there casters who might have to use consumables to assist the party to accomplish the mission will likely keep extend.

Most people who will drop extend will be in guilds or tight knit friends who are use to unorthadox playing styles

[fuzzy1guy]

For all those players who have graciously handed over sp pots to my casters in the past... I will now be keeping extend..

"Wait... what? Zero sp pots? you're sure? Well check again... zero huh.. well damm."


Yes i will now be dropping extend... I can keep me hasted. You go get a clicky or something. It's not my problem now.

[chester99]

the more I read this thread, the more I come to realize that this is the best feature of update 9: how much anger and argument it will generate in parties. "you don't have extend?!? GTFO!" followed by heated debate on the merits of the feat, merits of the spells, merits of the spells being cast by casters at all. It will make ddo an even angrier place to play.

...And that's something I really enjoy. So Kudos to whoever came up with this, and let the angry shouting, squelching, black listing and general player hate begin!