The "new" epic..

[Beethoven]

If you check the original post, I stated this was casting with a 42 enchantment dc.

My bad. Missed that. You'd think I learn my lesson about posting before I had coffee.

If a barbarian is killing an epic mob in 3 hits, there really isn't much need for cc. Sure, you can cast a hypno which breaks before its cool down timer refreshes, and you can throw all of the holds and dancing balls your heart desires.

That is assuming there was not some "look at me" involved in the post in question; either way he was talking about a stunned mob. My point being if it takes melees but a few swings to dispatch of a helpless mobs cooldown timers should be irrelevant.

Gathering a group of mobs, hitting them with /a/ CC spell and a 1 sp Hypno should be all it takes for melees to beat the lot of them into submission or a damage specced caster to explode them and in either case prevent any of them taking much damage. It's still going to be effective.

Toons that can achieve a DC high enough to pull it will be more limited though since it requires lot more grind getting gear, potential TRs and sacrifices in other areas. What I am saying is that those CC specced casters that do manage to achieve a working DC will still have their place in epics.

Where I do agree is that groups likely no longer will be reliant on them due to the combination of limited supply and being able to manage without them.

[Forzah]

What does the change mean for solo'ing in epics? Will it be easier now for melee to solo epics?

[Vallin]

Cleric in Wiz King Epic:

Things of note:

1. Mobs seem to have a faster movement speed. It was much more difficult to kite through BB and avoid damage.

2. Mobs are hitting harder. Had to self heal much more than previously.

3. Destruction works on gnolls! Nice damage when they make their saves (>200 damage).

4. Undeath to death works!

5. Implosion works!!

6. Decreased casting animation time means BB gets cast MUCH sooner, making multi-layered BB much easier to do on the fly. Interesting.

7. Combat: vorpaling mobs works nicely. Limbchop is also working well. All clerics need Unkors Cleaver!

Using epic wiz king as an example - it seems that there will need to be some pretty significant adjustment to overall tactics. Its a new game again, I guess!

Vallin.

[Kilarthia]

Just because you got lucky and crit 3 times in a row with your OP stacked multiplier shows nothing about about the general HP of epic monsters.

What it might show is that your crit damage stacks too high and could use a nerfing though..

[Cyr]

Just because you got lucky and crit 3 times in a row with your OP stacked multiplier shows nothing about about the general HP of epic monsters.

I thought it pretty clearly demonstrated the mob hit points were reduced by a large percentage.