I want to make an Intimitank but I have no idea where to start

[Failedlegend]

I think the strongest option would probably be 18/2 half-elf with favored soul dilettante. That gets you Cha to saves from paladin, and access to other divine wands and scrolls, including 95% Heal scrolls somewhere around level 13.

Yeah I could easily drop SF:UMD in favor of bastard sword there lots of other dill options (which is why H-Elves fit well in alot of builds) but really not worth getting into until I get the $$$ for H-ELf....although I wonder how the H-Elf Barb dilly DR stacks with other sources like blocking, item dr effects ,etc.?

Actually forget that...is there a guide to how DR stacks similar to your Spell Pen,etc. or the haggle and UMD guides others have made?

[WarDestroyer]

Really? Intimidate got SO nerfed that it seems to not even work anymore; go test it on Lamannia, or wait for release of U9, before making anything, IMO

[Failedlegend]

Really? Intimidate got SO nerfed that it seems to not even work anymore; go test it on Lamannia, or wait for release of U9, before making anything, IMO

Yeah we know that...its already been stated that this is a "fluid" build waiting on the outcome of U9...besides thats a bug not what the change is "supposed" to do when fixed its IMO a huge buff (along with the changes to S&B combat/feats) to Intimitanks.

[unbongwah]

I posted a nameless HE variant on BRC last month. I may revisit & revise it in light of the changes to mob helplessness (no more auto-crits boo! ) and the shield feats; and I'm still trying to work out the optimal AC gear (depends largely on how high you can get the DEX).

Still, I think it's a reasonable basis for a HE rogue 2 / ftr 18 SD build.

[sephiroth1084]

Yeah I could easily drop SF:UMD in favor of bastard sword there lots of other dill options (which is why H-Elves fit well in alot of builds) but really not worth getting into until I get the $$$ for H-ELf....although I wonder how the H-Elf Barb dilly DR stacks with other sources like blocking, item dr effects ,etc.?

Actually forget that...is there a guide to how DR stacks similar to your Spell Pen,etc. or the haggle and UMD guides others have made?

DR doesn't stack really.

When you block, you get a formula of DR that includes your shield's blocking DR value and the highest DR you have from another source added together with 1/2 your BAB, etc... That's as close as it gets. Otherwise, DR doesn't stack.

[VariaVespasa]

Ok, lemme see-

As some have noted, a true timmy is a very specific, dedicated build, both in terms of feats and gear, and with the
changes in intim coming up it seems like you cant necessarily just coast on "pretty good is good enough" on intim with a skill in the 60's somewhere. If you try it you risk either your intim not lasting long enough, or you getting out-aggroed by high dps people who overrun your bonus hate buffer because you didnt optimise your skill (depending exactly how they intend the new system to work). Either way, maximising your intim may no longer be semi-optional to run with the biggest dogs, in which case the 3 sentinel dragonmarks are now perhaps mandatory since thats a full 6 points on your intim skill in the end, and that means you must be human, not dwarven or half-elven. Dwarves do get more armor mastery and thus can theoretically have a bit better ac, but only if they can get the higher dex to make use of it, and there's only 2 more points of dex you can possibly buy, and it would cost you 6 character points more and you cant do that without losing some charisma and thus yet more intimidate, or putting some of your level-up stats into dex at the expense of con and thus hp. All the ac in the world is no use at all if you dont have enough intim skill to hold aggro in the first place or the hp to survive gaining aggro. Human is the way to go.

Class- I favor 18 fighter/2 paladin. Evasion doesnt mesh with heavy armor. Light armor doesnt mesh with having a high ac and still meeting your other stat needs. Rogue doesnt mesh with having aggro. Rangers or barbs for dps boosts is hate tanking, not intimitanking. Paladins give you a 6-7 [point boost in saves across the board and a little self-healing. Its the best deal.

Stats- 16con, 16 dex, 8 wis, plan to get at least 13 int at some point for combat expertise, 14 cha. Thats 29 points (assuming 11 int and a planned +2 tome). Balance the rest into str or cha to taste. 16 dex, and a +6 item gets you to the 22 dex you need for maximum use of dragontouched armor as a first stop. Later, as you get into epics, 16 dex, a +7 item (epic spectral gloves), +3 exceptional dex (2 on tod ring, +1 on a epic slot somewhere) and a +2 tome gets you to 28, which is the target number for epic cavalry plate with +2 max dex in the blue slot. As you can see, that only leaves 3 points to put into str, so you'll have a max starting str of 11. Not a lot. But if you want to be a true timmy then you're gonna hafta deal with it. Fighter strength 3 will help a bit, as will an item (eventually an epic belt of moranon for +7, and ring of baphomet for another +2), bringing you up to 23. Remember also that as a human you can buy 1 point in each of 2 different stats; if one of these is planned to be dex you can save 2 character points that can then be spent on strength if you feel the need. The other stat should be in con, both for the inherent extra hp, and to enable buying racial toughness 3 for a further 10hp. People have said you should put your stat gains into strength. I believe that misses the point of a timmie- it is NOT your job to do damage. It is your job to get aggro then survive the consequences. That means that con is your primary stat, not strength, at least in the long run. If you dont mind rebuilding your character sometime after you hit 20 then you can go with strength while levelling and switch to con after a rebuild when you hit 20, but con is where its at, in the long run.

Feats-
Racial- Toughness
Skill focus- intimidate
Bull headed
Force of personality
All 3 levels of the dragonmark.
That leaves you 1 discretionary feat. Toughness, or SF- UMD are handy, to taste.


Class- Dodge
Combat Expertise
Shield Mastery
Improved Shield Mastery.
The other 6 are variable, according to taste- I like cleave and power attack as a pair.
Bow Strength plus the 3 Manyshot feats is worth some consideration, although its pretty situational.
Weapon Focus/Specialisation is obviously popular. Improved Criticals for your chosen weapon would
seem like a no-brainer, although in point of fact a true intimitank doesnt actually hit much when it really
counts. Or you can take feats related to a specific weapon and the TWF line. Your original stated
requirements sound like improved shield bash would be one of your picks, and its not the worst idea.

End-Gear- (all epics where they exist) Leviks Shield, Cavalry Plate with maxdex augment, chaosgarde (new bracers in U9), chimeras crown, tod ring and neck, ring of baphomet, brawns spirits, belt of moranon, spectral gloves, greensteel goggles and cloak for hp, charisma skills, concordant opposition (small hp healing) and a guard of some kind, and chimera's fang. Boots to taste, but its less important due to the necessity of tod boots etc. The swashbuckler shield may or may not have a place instead of leviks, depending what update 9 does.

Remember, this is all based on being an intimitank, not a hate tank (which is a different beast entirely), which more than one poster has forgotten in giving their advice.

[sephiroth1084]

The change to intimidate will make blocking behind your shield and intimidating useless. You will need some DPS on top of your intimidate to maintain aggro.

The type of characters that VV is presenting are dead in the water. Get some Str, pick up Power Attack and Improved Critical and learn how to swing a weapon.

[VariaVespasa]

Its possible, but we dont know enough about what theyre actually trying to do with the intim changes to know for sure. It may be that sword and board with high intim can hold aggro the whole timer, and the real purpose of the change is to stop dilletantes from doing both the hate and timmie thing at the same time. The communications havent been great... In any event, we shall see, but you shouldnt do anything precipitate till we know more.

[sephiroth1084]

Its possible, but we dont know enough about what theyre actually trying to do with the intim changes to know for sure. It may be that sword and board with high intim can hold aggro the whole timer, and the real purpose of the change is to stop dilletantes from doing both the hate and timmie thing at the same time. The communications havent been great... In any event, we shall see, but you shouldnt do anything precipitate till we know more.

Untrue. Go read this thread, or just look for the developer comments: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308780

In short, intimidate now has a 15 second cooldown and only 5 seconds for which it will lock something. Everything else the skill does now revolves around hate and requires you to provide some additional damage in order to hold a monster for those other 10 seconds. Intimidate now helps your attacks generate hate, and can be used to hold aggro on something no one is attacking with just one button push, but it will NOT allow you to intimiblock a boss others are beating on.

You need to start swinging a weapon or casting spells.

[Failedlegend]

Two things apparently they've fixed intimidate now to actually well...function lol and this vvv

Nothing official, but a future build may have a release note that looks similar to:

• The Improved Shield Mastery feat's effect is now "You are exceptionally skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by an additional 5% when using a shield, for a total of 15% when using a buckler or small shield, 20% when using a large shield, or 25% when using a tower shield."

Note his first sentence...but its proof they are going to change it as well....not necessarily whats written here but its better than nothing

[Feithlin]

Note his first sentence...but its proof they are going to change it as well....not necessarily whats written here but its better than nothing

The change on intimidation is already tested in lamma and will almost certainly become live with u9 release. If you like, you can wait a bit to be sure, but advising against this change (like VV did) is a really bad advice.
Now, a SD has three priorities:
* 1st of all: Generating enough hate to keep aggro. A successful intimidate check will help but is no garantee in itself (+100% during 12 sec. on a 15 sec. timer with shield = 80% average; +50% during 6 sec. otherwise = 20% average). The buffer given with the successful check is simply useless and you can't rely on it. That means you need to do very significant damage now.
* 2nd: A good damage mitigation, because this is why ppl would want to use a tank. That means a good AC (I remember a post where someone -- don't remember who, sorry -- stated the god-mode in ToD (only hit on a '20') is 77/83/91 AC for Horoth and 77/82/87 for Suulo on Norm/Hard/Elite), good saves (mainly Ref and Fort) and healing amp to make to healers' job easier.
* 3rd: The ability to switch between dps and tanking, because in 95% of the game, you're just asked to dps.

The main difficulty is to make all those priorities work together. Even more now (at least in the configuration of the tank I'm leveling, who was designed as a Fighter 18/Rogue 2) that you need a very good threat generation to be viable. If intimidate still garantees you to get aggro, it doesn't anymore garantee to keep it. The ability to grab aggro will probably still have its use, but won't be enough in itself. After u9, it will be a hate generating tool more than anything. That puts the builder to difficult choices: Is it better to sacrifice feats and equipment to increase Intimidate to a high enough level or should you focus on dps and incite items? Should you stay pure for a better AC and/or Intimidate or splash for 6 paladin levels to get the Divine righteousnees easy button? If splashing, should you stay SD or switch to Kensei for better dps? etc.
The best would probably be to simulate the layout you would have when you'll start tanking (not with a bunch of epic items, but as soon as you want to do this job) and evaluate the TPS (threat per second) you can generate to compare it to the 1st TPS of the raid you could run with, adjust your attributes/feats/gear according to the results.

[Failedlegend]

Ummm...the part you quoted I was referring to the post I quoted by thoon where he's talking about the possible future change of a feat called" Improved Shield Mastery"

As far as intim goes what I meant when I said they "fixed" intim was that on Lama with the new changes intim was temporarily broken and doing almost nothing but recently it has been fixed.

Now how everything is going to work out after release I have no idea which is why me and my gf (Tank & Sorc) are waiting for the update to get released and for the number crunchers to figure things out BUT I've never build a tank before so I posted my "concept" build based of what I did know in hopes I could get the build ALMOST done than just tweak things to fit with U9...Make sense?

For now we'll stick with our other characters....but really there's no reason not to speculate and mess around with U9 on paper

Edit: Oh and I'm not 100% sure what you were trying to say in your post so If I misinterpreted it...Sorry

[Feithlin]

Ummm...the part you quoted I was referring to the post I quoted by thoon where he's talking about the possible future change of a feat called" Improved Shield Mastery"

As far as intim goes what I meant when I said they "fixed" intim was that on Lama with the new changes intim was temporarily broken and doing almost nothing but recently it has been fixed.

Now how everything is going to work out after release I have no idea which is why me and my gf (Tank & Sorc) are waiting for the update to get released and for the number crunchers to figure things out BUT I've never build a tank before so I posted my "concept" build based of what I did know in hopes I could get the build ALMOST done than just tweak things to fit with U9...Make sense?

For now we'll stick with our other characters....but really there's no reason not to speculate and mess around with U9 on paper

Edit: Oh and I'm not 100% sure what you were trying to say in your post so If I misinterpreted it...Sorry

No problem. I was not reacting to your post, but following it with some more precisions.
*Edit: I probably shouldn't have used 'you' in the first sentence. I have an excuse, though: english isn't my first language

[Failedlegend]

Well I was bored so I made a Paladin Version (if only because a Heavily armored warrior carrying a Bastard Sword and Sheild feels more like a paladin thematically :P)

Probably should have less dex more Cha but I dunno

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 232 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 15

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    14
Bluff                 1                     5
Concentration         6                    35
Diplomacy             1                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     5
Heal                  0                     2
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            5                    32
Jump                  3                     7
Listen                0                     1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  0                     1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                    16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

[sephiroth1084]

Well I was bored so I made a Paladin Version (if only because a Heavily armored warrior carrying a Bastard Sword and Sheild feels more like a paladin thematically :P)

Probably should have less dex more Cha but I dunno

Yeah. The only endgame armors I can think of that would require more than a 20 Dex (12+6+2 tome) are the epic Cavalry Plate and Epic Red Dragonplate, and losing 1 point of AC there isn't a big deal (plus, if you can work in +2 exceptional Dex that will take care of the difference--not worth it really on anything but the Epic Swasbuckler, though). You'd want Cha for Divine Might (I recommend no lower than 14, ideally 15 or 16--15 is DM III with a +3 tome, 16 is III with a +2 and IV with a +4).

Also, dump Wis to 8. No reason to raise it.

[Failedlegend]

Yeah. The only endgame armors I can think of that would require more than a 20 Dex (12+6+2 tome) are the epic Cavalry Plate and Epic Red Dragonplate, and losing 1 point of AC there isn't a big deal (plus, if you can work in +2 exceptional Dex that will take care of the difference--not worth it really on anything but the Epic Swasbuckler, though). You'd want Cha for Divine Might (I recommend no lower than 14, ideally 15 or 16--15 is DM III with a +3 tome, 16 is III with a +2 and IV with a +4).

Also, dump Wis to 8. No reason to raise it.

Hmmm...Like this?

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 15

Do you know of a good AC breakdown guide?

[sephiroth1084]

Hmmm...Like this?

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 15

Yeah. Depending on what armor you see yourself using at endgame, you could even drop Dex further to improve Cha more, but it's not a big deal, really. DM IV is tough to fit in with your other AP anyway, so it's not a big deal.

Do you know of a good AC breakdown guide?

Not off the top of my head (for a comprehensive source). What are you looking for? Max possible? Max reasonable? How reasonable?

[Failedlegend]

Not off the top of my head (for a comprehensive source). What are you looking for? Max possible? Max reasonable? How reasonable?

Reasonable outside of raids and epics but preferably in raids as well (could care less bout epics)