I want to make an Intimitank but I have no idea where to start

[Failedlegend]

Hey guys with u9 looming and some as before unknown boosts to S&B fighting getting slipped in I wanted to take a look at Stalwart defender fighter (who is likely going to duo with an offensive caster cleric or maybe a WF or H-Elf Sorc w/Pally Dilly) anyways the only issue is I don't know where to start and there doesn't seem to be much discussion about it on the boards (or my search-fu just sucks)

Note: I don't really care is this isn't 100% uber-haxxorz optimized nor do I expect it be its mostly just for screwing around with a friend...on the other hand i do want to make it as good as possible within the build parameters

Anyways I have a few things I'd like to obtain with this build.

- High AC
- Decent (maybe a couple feats devoted to it) to High saves (Pally 2 Splash or H-Elf Pally Dilly?)
- Uses a Bastard Sword or D-Axes with the THF Line (preferably B-Sword)
- Must take Improved shield Bash & Shield Mastery to obtain below bonuses
- Intimidate (of course)
- UMD if possible (Thinking H-Elf 18FIghter/2Rogue w/ Pally Dilly)
- Must wield tower shield (for the U9 20% damage reduction)
- All three tiers of Stalwart defender

Would be nice

- Stunning Blow



Now my questions

- Which race I don't really see any that stands out...human maybe for the improved healing, the dragonmarks that boost intim and the denieth intim line (also no points in Int needed for UMD & Intimidate) or Half-Elf to get both UMD/Evasion from Rogue and saves from pally dilly (I have purchased every race excvept h-elf so avoid that one if you can)

- What starting stats...with all the Max Dex Bonus boots how high can you crank that dex fro AC...does light armor end up exceeding heavy armor if you have enough dex (would be nice to have High Saves+Evasion & High AC)...really it seems this build would be max Str with Con/DEx secondary while ignoring wis,int and cha (maybe a 10 starting score in Cha for no negatives to intim)

- Feats...wow lots of feats...i'm thinking most feats taken are to increase HP, AC & Saves beyond your standard melee package (PA, IC: X, THF,etc.) and the various shield feats

- Splashes...Rogue, Paladin, Something Else...Pure?


Here's the changes:

- When using a shield, intimidate will get a longer lasting and more effective threat multiplier applied.

- Improved Shield Bash now grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

- Shield Mastery's feat benefit has been changed to, "You are now skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 10% when using a buckler or small shield, 15% when using a large shield, or 20% when using a tower shield."

-Intimidate Change: A successful use of the intimidate skill now sets a player's threat with a monster equal to the highest threat opponent, plus a small buffer based on a player's (size-modified) intimidate skill. Players also gain a +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation. Intimidate now has a 15 second cooldown, but players will no longer automatically lose the monster's aggro after six seconds.

- AN older one but just in case: B-Swords and D-Axes now benefit from the THF feats when weilding a sheild or nothing in your off-hand and also produce glancing blows.





Note: Dunno if its Helps at all but my other Characters are a WF Wiz15/Rogue2 (18/2), Halfling Rogue9 Mechanic (Pure 20 Rogue repeater build), A Half-Orc Bard1/Fighter1/Barb2 (Bard16/F2/Barb2)

[krisz93]

You shouldn't underestimate INT for a tank. With 13 INT you can get Combat Expertise, higher balance and distribute more skill points. This way you can get 5AC for either 4 stat points and a +1 tome or 2 points if you can get a +3 one. You could even do some traps in emergency.

[Ilklr]

I have purchased every race excvept h-elf so avoid that one if you can

Well, that was what I was going to recommend. I'm sure some would disagree, but imo Half-elf has to get heavy consideration for race of choice for most builds.

Anyway, I'm sure people will post a bunch of build ideas for you, so I'm going to abstain from that. What I can do is point you toward some good resources for build searching (Thanks for the awesome new forum layout ).

SigTrent
Impaqt
Anthios
Stormarcher

There are of course many other great indexes, but this should give you a good starting point.

[theboatman]

Two levels of rogue spash for evasion/umd works, except for one minor detail. The light armor you must be wearing to benefit from evasion doesn't play nice with the max dex increase from stalwart defender. From Stalward Defender III, you get +3MDB on tower, +2 on heavy, and+1 on light. And if you are going the glancing blow direction w/THF chain, you don't need as many build points in dex for the TWF feats, and will cap out eventually. You also lose the capstone, which is really nice for sword and boarding.

With a base Dex/Int of 12 each, you can qualify for dodge and combat expertise w/ +1 tomes, and get skill points enough for umd. Granted they will only get you to 11 base, but with enough late game (note, not end game) gear you can get enough to umd most rr items you need to/etc.

If you are speaking of self heal scrolling, Helf with cleric Dilly and enhancements will get you no fail heal scroll, but you probably wont have the concentration to use them when in combat.

Saves can be boosted with feats, and have good synergy with the stalwart stance boost to saves. I personally like Luck of Hero + Lit Reflex + Iron Will.

Human really seems to be the way to go unless you want that helf/cleric dilly.

Starting stats would be around:
16/12/16/12/8/8 for a 28 point build, all levels into Str.
With a 32 point you can dump the last four into Wis to boost your Will saves, or Cha if you plan on taking Force of Personality (good umd synergy, lets you dump wis, but requires 13 cha to get the feat, so one more tome.)
You could also pull a point from con to bump wis/cha for the 28 build, but hp's are very nice to have on a defender;

Feats will fall thusly:
B. Sword/THF/ITHF/GTHF/IC:Slash/Dodge/Combat Expertise/Power Attack/Shield Mastery/Imp. Shield Bash/Stunning Blow.
I would reserve judgement as to how useful Stunning will be on a less than max strength character when the update comes, but Imp. Shield mastery may have a place in the 11 Fighter feats.

That leaves you 7 more feats (+1 more if human.) I really recommend Weapon Focus/Specialization, for the extra damage and enhancement it unlocks. You can also take Greater Weapon Specialization for 2 more damage, without needing focus, if you have the feat room. Saving Throw feats are nice, as are Intim booster feats; More toughness is always good as well (I like at least three on a pure fighter20.) As you can see, those lots of feats get eaten up rather rapidly, so there are some choices to be made.



If you decide you do want evasion (and especially if you friend chooses to make that wf sorc) there is a nice warforged defender with two levels of rogue for evasion/umd that utilizes Mithril Body feat for synergy. Hone up your search-fu and check on the bigrockcandymountain build; It's a TWF as listed if i remember correctly, but I'm sure it can be easily converted to THF w/ B.Swords.

[sephiroth1084]

I think you've got a lot of options as far as race goes. Dwarf gets a lot of good, relevant bonuses, but their enhancements are expensive. Human gets an extra feat, which is actually useful on a defender fighter for getting all your defensive and offensive feats in, along with healing amp and more flexible stats. Half-elf lets you either get scroll usage or a semi-paladin splash to saves, as well as an additional intimidate you can toss while your main version is on cooldown.

I think those are the top 3 choices for this sort of build.

Honestly, I'd consider Fighter 18/Pal 2 over the Rog 2 version, simply because you're often going to want to be in non-light armor.

Your max Dex can go up to +8 for regular full plate on a dwarf, or +9 on mithral full plate on a dwarf. I think that's probably excessive, and costs a ton of AP, but is worth shooting in that direction.

Are you going to be 28 pts? 32? 34? 36?

Remember to pick up offense as well (GTHF or GTWF, PA, Greater Weapon Specialization, Haster Boost, etc...).

[Thuriaz]

My advice, for what limited worth it is, go Dwarf, Stalwart Defender. Awesome armor boosts so you can get up to a +10 dex bonus in heavy armor (once you gear out your dex assuming a starting 16dex you should be able to JUST reach +8/9/10 depending on tomes and some other things). At the very least it allows you to take the Dwarven Armor Mastery cheaper than Fighter Armor 3 if need be.

The bonuses to hit/damage with an axe + Dwarven Axe as a weapon are very nice. I've got a Dwarven Stalwart at lvl 8 now and he's a joy to play, only spells hit him and even then those don't keep him down long with a good healer. The trick is to know WHEN to go into your stalwart stance, when to use things like cleave/great cleave/whirlwind (if at all) and when to turtle up behind that shield. Balancing the use of abilities can keep your threat HIGH and your damage incoming LOW while making you a decent damage dealer.

[Failedlegend]

You shouldn't underestimate INT for a tank. With 13 INT you can get Combat Expertise, higher balance and distribute more skill points. This way you can get 5AC for either 4 stat points and a +1 tome or 2 points if you can get a +3 one. You could even do some traps in emergency.

Hmmm...I didn't even think about that feat thanks

Half-elf has to get heavy consideration for race of choice for most builds.

Yeah as the only race I dsn't have purchased most of the new builds I've been trying have the Half-Elf "Buy Now" button laughing at me....just cant afford to buy points right now.

Lots of good stuff

Thanks that really helps

I think you've got a lot of options as far as race goes. Dwarf gets a lot of good, relevant bonuses, but their enhancements are expensive. Human gets an extra feat, which is actually useful on a defender fighter for getting all your defensive and offensive feats in, along with healing amp and more flexible stats. Half-elf lets you either get scroll usage or a semi-paladin splash to saves, as well as an additional intimidate you can toss while your main version is on cooldown.

I think those are the top 3 choices for this sort of build.

Honestly, I'd consider Fighter 18/Pal 2 over the Rog 2 version, simply because you're often going to want to be in non-light armor.

Your max Dex can go up to +8 for regular full plate on a dwarf, or +9 on mithral full plate on a dwarf. I think that's probably excessive, and costs a ton of AP, but is worth shooting in that direction.

Are you going to be 28 pts? 32? 34? 36?

Remember to pick up offense as well (GTHF or GTWF, PA, Greater Weapon Specialization, Haster Boost, etc...).

Yeah I definitely agree with Dwarf, Human or H-Elf and I really wish I had H-Elf or the points to buy it (the annoying part is if i didnt buy have orc i could have bought the half-blood pack still) because I really like being able to get UMD from Rogue + Saves frpm H-Elf Dilly but really the ability to double up on intimidate seems like it would be a HUGE help. On the other hand It would be fun and feel thematically right to play a Dwarf

Oh and yeah I don't plan on forgetting my offensive stuff that's what I meant by "Standard Melee Package"

Oh and I have 32pts and if it matters I start at lvl 4....at least on Thelanis I do

My advice, for what limited worth it is, go Dwarf, Stalwart Defender. Awesome armor boosts so you can get up to a +10 dex bonus in heavy armor (once you gear out your dex assuming a starting 16dex you should be able to JUST reach +8/9/10 depending on tomes and some other things). At the very least it allows you to take the Dwarven Armor Mastery cheaper than Fighter Armor 3 if need be.

The bonuses to hit/damage with an axe + Dwarven Axe as a weapon are very nice. I've got a Dwarven Stalwart at lvl 8 now and he's a joy to play, only spells hit him and even then those don't keep him down long with a good healer. The trick is to know WHEN to go into your stalwart stance, when to use things like cleave/great cleave/whirlwind (if at all) and when to turtle up behind that shield. Balancing the use of abilities can keep your threat HIGH and your damage incoming LOW while making you a decent damage dealer.

Yeah and the U9 stuff will hopefully help with Threat gen too



Anyways thanks for all the suggestions guys I didn't expect to get such a good response....I'll have a look at the Links Ilkir gave me in just a sec but I'm gonna post my first four levels and my planned feat list first....not sure what order to take them in and if I missed anything hugely important.


Note: My Main Kraite is lvl 17 and will be supplying this character with tomes etc.

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 SF:UMD

Fighter Feats

1 Bull-Headed (B. Sword if I go another race)
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 Improved Shield Mastery


Other Feats I Was considering

Iron Will
Greater Weapon Spec
Luck of Heroes
Lightning Reflexes

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 4 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 72
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 4\4
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 4
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 4)
Strength             16                    17
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    13

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise

Alternatively how well would a Fighter(SD2)12/Paladin(DoS1)6/Rogue2 work?

[Aeolwind]

I recommend at least 3 toughness, Dragonmark, SF:Intim, & Bullheaded. If you are going for an intim build, you have to go virtually all out to be able to intim certain mobs. Even then, it isn't enough in some cases.

And with the changes to intim right now, you'd be better off spec'ing into bluff since the intim changes aren't working.

Two things to remember: Your DPS is going to be terrible; even with BS, even with the shield changes. You are still going to get hit, alot. You can't get meaningful AC without splashing monk & wearing robes or investing an absolute boat load of time.

I recommend twf dorf axe kensai. You can still take the feats for intim, you'll just deal 10 times more damage, be a huge benefit to a party with dwarven tactics and stun/trip, and get hit equally as much.

If it's a flavor build, then continue mission. If this is something you want to play a lot and be your main, I strongly recommend you change course asap.

[Thuriaz]

Replace the D-axe prof with something else, you get D-Axe standard just for being a dwarf (so long as you have a level of fighter, pally, barb, or ranger)

Edit::

Before I forget, don't build ANYTHING based on the Stalwart build until we see if they fix hate generation on Lamania for the update that will be hitting the main servers. Right now I can pull hate off a level 20 stalwart build with a level 1 ranger from what I'm hearing so you might be in a situation where ALL INTIMIDATE BUILDS are going to be shelved rather soon. I'm reserving judgment on continuing P2P until I see more data about this because, honestly, it's kinda silly to pay for something that broken. I could deal with the 4 - 6month grind for gear I was looking at for my tank, I could deal with the less hate from attacks and more from intim, but to nerf intim AND hate tanking all in one blow... eh... looks like all partys will soon be "Looking for 4 more wiz, 1 Cleric" in the LFMs.

And I'm the one usually saying "It's not that bad" but after watching a video of 4 successful intim's failing to pull agro on 2 mobs.... I think it's that bad.

[Failedlegend]

Replace the D-axe prof with something else, you get D-Axe standard just for being a dwarf (so long as you have a level of fighter, pally, barb, or ranger)

Oh cool...so Dwarf and Human technically get the same amount of feats than (assuming human take B-Sword prof) ill fix it now...actually knowing that I'd say the two most viable races are Dwarf or Half-Elf than as Bull-Headed is easily dropped for Pally Dilly.

Yeah I don't plan on playing this character until U9 is officially released (and hopefully fixed) I'm just preemtively getting ready because its a build a have VERY little experience with.

Oh and I know it's odd but since the Rogue splash (on half-elf) would mostly be for UMD access (evasion being negated by heavy armor) how about a splash of 2 Bard instead for a really crappy song (+1 to-hit/+2 Damage) and still opens up UMD...also the Bard Scroll/Wand Mastery 1 would help alot for self-healing or maybe 1Bard/1something else? Oh and because having Bard levels and Paladin Dilly is funny.

[Thuriaz]

My advice, for what it's worth, bard is rarely a GOOD idea to splash. Your songs will be over-written, short duration, and what your gaining from UMD you won't OFTEN have a chance to use in a tank build. If your looking to splash something extra (and on a fighter I'd suggest no splash because the capstone IS that awesome) I'd say splash 2 Barbarian. Think of it this way, in the middle of the fight you RARELY have a chance to wand/scroll anything, even trutled up and blocking if you whip a scroll out your block goes away, same with a wand, if the fight is over potions are (at higher levels) cheap enough or you can grab a tasty ham if there is THAT much time between the fight that you can heal scroll.

What I'm saying is, classes like Bard, Rogue, or even Wizard/Sorc can afford to be out of the front lines and therefore have time to scroll, wand, umd something. For you, as a fighter, a base UMD of 20 is all you'll need, so if your looking to splash that splash needs to grant you either.

A) Survivability - Monk for evasion/wisdom bonus to armor... but why didn't you just go full monk then? So probably not monk, but maybe a rogue splash since the extra sneak attack will help in regaining aggro + the evasion, possibly Pally for the bonuses from aura but there is likely going to BE a pally in any raid you need to tank.

B) Raw Damage Output - Here you start looking at some shallow splashes (2 Barbarian for the Rage and boosts it provides) as well as DEEP splashes (6 Ranger, 2 barb for the best in TWF for free and nice rage potiential while STILL maintaining stalwart defender, oh and the rager long stride + speed boosts means you may be able to boogie at near decent speeds even in stance).

The Stalwart Defender has always been a build based around getting INTO the heat of combat, and surviving despite the best efforts of the enemy at hand. This means any splash/multiclassing has to take that into consideration. My advice as it stands is to consider any and all alternatives that boost up your ability to take a hit.

Also some race considerations you may have overlooked/not been aware of.

Warforged: Look up a build called Big Rock Candy the Mountain, impressive warforged tank/evasion build, your looking at very good survivability in MOST situations at higher levels and impressive AC/DR as needed. Alternatively consider a pure Damage Reduction Threat Warforged build (look up the Obvioso I believe is how it's spelled). Less gear needed on any warforged build for things like immunities, water breathing, etc.

Halfling: Consider going medium armor, rogue splash, with the high dex bonus and the fighter/stalwart bonuses PLUS all the benefits halflings get in the dex department you could be quite a hard to hit little fella if you choose to be. Halflings also get some benefits when not targeted, great way of getting their attention back on YOU where it belongs.

Half Orc: Strength good, crush puny enemy, make big dent, they look at you now instead of other fighters.

Drow: Same as halfling, half elf, except you get a bonus to Charisma and intelligence, the con penalty hurts, but if your going for a raw high intimidate skill, weapon fines and twf as a kensai may pay off.


Basically what I'm getting at is, a tank build (assuming they fix intim before the release) is more about keeping agro and surviving it. Look at each race because each one brings something unique and different to the table. None of them are so left out as to be invalid choices for a tank, though some are superior for CERTAIN GOALS in tanking. An elf will not likely be your high level intim/hp tank who relies on raw hit points to survive but they might be the evasion tank your looking for where a warforged is harder to heal but survives LONGER in content where negative energy spells are flying left and right, matter of fact that warforged will then outsurvive the dwarf (and I think dwarves are a superior tank race) because each negative level is 10 + Con Mod HP that WF isn't loosing per hit.

[sephiroth1084]

[quote=Failedlegend;3676978]

Note: My Main Kraite is lvl 17 and will be supplying this character with tomes etc.

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 SF:UMD

Fighter Feats

1 Bull-Headed (B. Sword if I go another race) I'd consider dropping this, actually.
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 Improved Shield Mastery It's not clear whether this got any sort of improvement in the way Shield Mastery did.

I really think you want to work in Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization.


Other Feats I Was considering

Iron Will Don't bother
Greater Weapon Spec
Luck of Heroes Don't bother
Lightning Reflexes Don't bother

Just to clear up a point, the H-elf dilettante feat doesn't take up a regular feat slot. H-elves get a bonus feat at level 1 that can only be used for a dily.

If you got into the Crystal Cove event did you get around to making the Cavalry Plate and Swashbuckler? They're both rather excellent and will save you time grinding for other stuff at end game. The 'buckler, unfortunately, is a small shield and benefits the least from Shield Mastery, but it's still quite good (same AC as the epic heavy shields, +2 exceptional Dex will help you fill out a higher Dex on armor, and the 6% doublestrike makes up for being immune to Inspire Recklessness while in defensive stance).

As for different splash combinations, I'll say that, after trying a 14 paladin/6 fighter, I think I'd make sure to hit 18 in one class for the tier III defender benefits. The better movement speed alone is worth getting there for, and the other benefits coming your way are pretty solid.

[Failedlegend]

Note: My Main Kraite is lvl 17 and will be supplying this character with tomes etc.

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 SF:UMD

Fighter Feats

1 Bull-Headed (B. Sword if I go another race) I'd consider dropping this, actually.
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 Improved Shield Mastery It's not clear whether this got any sort of improvement in the way Shield Mastery did.

I really think you want to work in Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization.


Other Feats I Was considering

Iron Will Don't bother
Greater Weapon Spec
Luck of Heroes Don't bother
Lightning Reflexes Don't bother

Just to clear up a point, the H-elf dilettante feat doesn't take up a regular feat slot. H-elves get a bonus feat at level 1 that can only be used for a dily.

If you got into the Crystal Cove event did you get around to making the Cavalry Plate and Swashbuckler? They're both rather excellent and will save you time grinding for other stuff at end game. The 'buckler, unfortunately, is a small shield and benefits the least from Shield Mastery, but it's still quite good (same AC as the epic heavy shields, +2 exceptional Dex will help you fill out a higher Dex on armor, and the 6% doublestrike makes up for being immune to Inspire Recklessness while in defensive stance).

As for different splash combinations, I'll say that, after trying a 14 paladin/6 fighter, I think I'd make sure to hit 18 in one class for the tier III defender benefits. The better movement speed alone is worth getting there for, and the other benefits coming your way are pretty solid.

Hmmm ok slight changes to ther feat line

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 Greater Weapon Spec:Slashing

Fighter Feats

1 Greater Weapon Focus:Slashing
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 SF:UMD or Improved Shield Mastery depending if its been changed or not or B. Sword if not Dwarf

As far as Class spread goes:

Fighter18/Barbarian2 w/ Pally Dilly for Half-Elf , any other race is Fighter18/Pally2 (I worked it out...even with just 20 Cha [Base12+item6+tome2] thats +5 to all saves which is awesome.)

As far as the CC I didn't even get the items for my current characters done (The Ornamental Dagger Lvl 16 & 20 Only got Tier 1, LvL 8 Tier 2 Spyglass, lvl 20 versions of brawling gloves, spyglass and buccaneers ring thats it i think) besides by the time I actually get this guy to 10+ it will probably have rolled around again (and ill hopefully have a new PC that dpesnt crash every time there a DDO event lol)

[Thuriaz]

Hmm, remember you gotta take Wep Focus and Wep Spec before taking the Greater or superior versions. Run it through the character planner again and you'll get a better feel for it. I'd say if your going half elf seriously consider on dropping the THF line and going Cleave/Great Cleave, whirl wind strike. If they fix intim before the release (which they likely WILL) then you should be able to easily maintain agro between hitting intim, smacking mobs 1 by 1 and then hitting CL, GC, Whirl before turtling up and hitting intim again. Also if the whole shield thing works out you should be able to land some good single target damage that way. I'd actually drop FOP if you need to, chances are you'll have enough buffs/gear/etc between racial enhancements and buffs to keep you from being held too much.

Again just my thoughts for now.

[Failedlegend]

Hmm, remember you gotta take Wep Focus and Wep Spec before taking the Greater or superior versions. Run it through the character planner again and you'll get a better feel for it. I'd say if your going half elf seriously consider on dropping the THF line and going Cleave/Great Cleave, whirl wind strike. If they fix intim before the release (which they likely WILL) then you should be able to easily maintain agro between hitting intim, smacking mobs 1 by 1 and then hitting CL, GC, Whirl before turtling up and hitting intim again. Also if the whole shield thing works out you should be able to land some good single target damage that way. I'd actually drop FOP if you need to, chances are you'll have enough buffs/gear/etc between racial enhancements and buffs to keep you from being held too much.

Again just my thoughts for now.

Yeah the feats aren't actually in order at all just the order i happened to write them down in as far as dropping the THF line that completely defeats the purpose of taking D-Axes or B.swords (I'm most likely going Dwarf 18Fighter/2Pally anyway)

As far as Cleave,Great Cleave,etc. I've never actually used them and the genral consensus is Cleave is only useful for one thing....unlocking the frenzied barb line

[sephiroth1084]

Cleave and Great Cleave probably work pretty well in conjunction with intimidate now, but I'm not sure I'd spend the feats on them all the same. For one, that's a fairly small number of situations in which it will really be useful, and a better tactic (though more difficult) would be to get your other party members to focus on one monster at a time, though I'd imagine that neither tactic would work with mages shooting off AoEs a lot, either.

If you're bothering with UMD, I'd skip barbarian and either go pure or...I don't know. Also, I'm not sure if the barbarian's rage stacks with defensive stance.

Despite all the sword and board stuff, I'd make sure to carry around a couple of good DPS greataxes for those situations when the shield just isn't necessary.

[Failedlegend]

If you're bothering with UMD, I'd skip barbarian and either go pure or...I don't know. Also, I'm not sure if the barbarian's rage stacks with defensive stance.

Yeah Half-Elf makes things weird there and I might just go Pure but since I'm 90% sure I'm going Dwarf Fighter18/Pally2 I won't really worry about it....although it would be nice to know how rage and the stance function....IM GOING TO VERY ANGRILY BLOCK YOUR ATTACKS lol. If it does work the speed boost from Barb would help alot.

Despite all the sword and board stuff, I'd make sure to carry around a couple of good DPS greataxes for those situations when the shield just isn't necessary.

Yeah I was definitely planning on that I'm taking the full THF line anyways I might as well have a few 2h-Weapons

[sephiroth1084]

If it does work the speed boost from Barb would help alot.

Definitely, but since the stances don't stack (turn off) Rage, Madstone Rage and Inspire Recklessness, I'd imagine that the poster boy for offense-over-defense buffs wouldn't stack either.

Yeah I was definitely planning on that I'm taking the full THF line anyways I might as well have a few 2h-Weapons

Good call.

[Failedlegend]

Definitely, but since the stances don't stack (turn off) Rage, Madstone Rage and Inspire Recklessness.

Hmmm would have been awesome if they did. Oh well so I'm either gonna Go Pure Fighter Half-Elf (so same feats as Dwarf using the extra feats for B.Sword prof) w/Pally Dilly or Dwarf Fighter18/Pally2...if I do ending waiting until I buy H-Elf I'll probablyy also be wanting to make a H-Elf Sorc w/Pally Dilly but that is somewhere I actually know what I'm doing lol (well except for the whole rework of spells).

[sephiroth1084]

Hmmm would have been awesome if they did. Oh well so I'm either gonna Go Pure Fighter Half-Elf (so same feats as Dwarf using the extra feats for B.Sword prof) w/Pally Dilly or Dwarf Fighter18/Pally2...if I do ending waiting until I buy H-Elf I'll probablyy also be wanting to make a H-Elf Sorc w/Pally Dilly but that is somewhere I actually know what I'm doing lol (well except for the whole rework of spells).

I think the strongest option would probably be 18/2 half-elf with favored soul dilettante. That gets you Cha to saves from paladin, and access to other divine wands and scrolls, including 95% Heal scrolls somewhere around level 13.