Nerf Stick

[Ungood]

Sigh. Is it not possible that I was writing something down quickly for the sake of a hypothetical situation and missed a detail?

I'll tell you what, how about I toss you a bone that you are not a totally hapless at building an arcane, and just assume that all this is you being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

However, allow me to leave you this two bits of wisdom:

First: If you want to play a CC arcane, you had better be ready to impress people with what you can do, not shock them with what you can't.

Second: like any build, know the classes involved, what it can do, what it can't do, the strong and weak parts, and the best means to get ahead with it. An odd ball arcane is fine, if you have the skill to back up the build. If this is your first run up, there is a good chance you don't. Ergo, you should listen and learn how to do what everyone knows works before you think you have it all figured out.

And in your little fake situation: the Wizard should open by casting Hypnotize, then haste&range the melee, followed by casting hold person on the first target (not sure if hold person works on giants tho, I'd have to test that), then cast a melf's acid arrow. (Really weak not taking acid line BtW if you are going to take Conjuration anyway), and then if Hold did not stick, cast an Otto's on the Second to prep it for beat down, and cast melf's again, At this point you should be casting Hypnotize again and most likely, the majority of the mobs are dead, and easy pickens for the Melee to take down, perhaps another melf's and hold/ottos just to finish off whatever else remains, and the fight is done. That is if you decided to go all CC spec with a conjuration focus. Now, if the only spells you can think to cast are Charm or FW while giants are coming at you in Redwillow, then your better off casting FW, along with haste/rage, and letting the rest of the party carry you though the zone. The reality is, If you are going to play an odd-ball caster, learn how to play it, and stop whining when people tell you you're doing wrong, they might very well be right.

[katz]

And in your little fake situation: the Wizard should open by casting Hypnotize, then haste&range the melee, followed by casting hold person on the first target (not sure if hold person works on giants tho, I'd have to test that), then cast a melf's acid arrow. (Really weak not taking acid line BtW if you are going to take Conjuration anyway), and then if Hold did not stick, cast an Otto's on the Second to prep it for beat down, and cast melf's again, At this point you should be casting Hypnotize again and most likely, the majority of the mobs are dead, and easy pickens for the Melee to take down, perhaps another melf's and hold/ottos just to finish off whatever else remains, and the fight is done. That is if you decided to go all CC spec with a conjuration focus. Now, if the only spells you can think to cast are Charm or FW while giants are coming at you in Redwillow, then your better off casting FW, along with haste/rage, and letting the rest of the party carry you though the zone. The reality is, If you are going to play an odd-ball caster, learn how to play it, and stop whining when people tell you you're doing wrong, they might very well be right.

web can be very handy too...and also a conjuration spell. ^.^

[Ungood]

web can be very handy too...and also a conjuration spell. ^.^

Oo yah,. Web would good in that situation. Good call. I normally do not use web (being an evocation spec on my main) I think about doing damage, but yes, web might be a better call perhaps in lieu of the melf's since they did not take acid line.

+1 cookie!

[Trapdoor]

So web, heightened is going to be the new CC with max specs in that line and past life feat wizzy might this do any good in epics?

[Absolute-Omniscience]

So web, heightened is going to be the new CC with max specs in that line and past life feat wizzy might this do any good in epics?

Mass hold is still going to dominate epics.
Crushing despair > mass hold > everything is held > bash a few seconds > move on.

Or, you could just nuke em as a sorc and be done with it that way.

[Trapdoor]

Just wasnt sure that mass hold would do much what with the nerf to auto crit. I suppose if you got the DC up to over 41 or 42 with +4 int tome and ship buffs +2int shrine and dc enchant+1dc guy and Yugo pots +2int and feat enchant focus +1 dc, greater enchant focus +1 dc, archmage enchant focus +1 and greater enchant focus +1 and past life wizzy +1 dc max int WF18 int start, drow 20int start, plus +5 int level ups and +7 int item, +3 exceptional int ( +1 and +2 )and such it might hold them long enough for 1 mob to be killed per cast of mass hold or so in epic mode. yet to see the nerf stick though... hopefully they wont do what they did with para and take away our auto crit, hopefully its just a bad rumour...

[FooWonk]

I'll tell you what, how about I toss you a bone that you are not a totally hapless at building an arcane, and just assume that all this is you being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Thank you for showing some courtesy.

[color=gray]And in your little fake situation: the Wizard should open by casting Hypnotize, then haste&range the melee, followed by casting hold person on the first target (not sure if hold person works on giants tho, I'd have to test that), then cast a melf's acid arrow.

Need hold monster for giants.

(Really weak not taking acid line BtW if you are going to take Conjuration anyway)

Acid line, especially in U9 would be good for a conjurer. Fire line, not so much.

, and then if Hold did not stick, cast an Otto's on the Second to prep it for beat down, and cast melf's again, At this point you should be casting Hypnotize again and most likely, the majority of the mobs are dead, and easy pickens for the Melee to take down, perhaps another melf's and hold/ottos just to finish off whatever else remains, and the fight is done. That is if you decided to go all CC spec with a conjuration focus. Now, if the only spells you can think to cast are Charm or FW while giants are coming at you in Redwillow, then your better off casting FW, along with haste/rage, and letting the rest of the party carry you though the zone.

I agree with your analysis. Only variation I'd have is that rather than Hold Person, I'd use Charm Monster then Web and/or Melf's on the mob(s) the charm pet beats awake.

The reality is, If you are going to play an odd-ball caster, learn how to play it, and stop whining when people tell you you're doing wrong, they might very well be right.

The problem is that in PUGs, the other players are "well-educated" fighters who value arcane casters for WoF, Haste & Rage. You've described a workable way to play this "gimp build". However, it relies on the party members listening to the arcane caster's strategy, not dictating it. Otherwise, that xerging barbarian will cleave his way through the hypnotized mobs and the healer will be struggling keeping everyone alive with single target heals. IMO, your strategy is a lot more fun than spamming WoF and running in circles.

[Ungood]

So web, heightened is going to be the new CC with max specs in that line and past life feat wizzy might this do any good in epics?

Web would used in conjunction with Otto's Sphere of Dancing (or in lieu of) as they are both multi-target stationary "Trap" type spells. But since Otto's saves against a Will (Which many casters have in abundance) and Web saves against Reflex, it just means that it might stop casters better.

But neither are replacements for Hold, as Hold offers a 50% increase in spells and melee. So it is still the ideal spell to use to maximized DPS against a mob.

Where Web/Otto's would only serve to control or lock up a mob so it is not attacking the group or can't fight back. making killing it easier, just not faster.

[Ungood]

Acid line, especially in U9 would be good for a conjurer. Fire line, not so much.

Conjuration has a heavy dependency on acid for damage, and since doing damage is still the goal of everyone in the group (including the CC arcane) it helps to have any means open to you. In fact, it even justifies wearing the boots of corrosion. (Acid cloud could be used in place of when FW would be cast for mass damage, not mention to slow movement and causes a miss chance)

I agree with your analysis. Only variation I'd have is that rather than Hold Person, I'd use Charm Monster then Web and/or Melf's on the mob(s) the charm pet beats awake.

Personal note, I do not use charm in conjunction with hypnotize, as charmed monsters tend to break hypnotize. So do hires for that matter.

The problem is that in PUGs, the other players are "well-educated" fighters who value arcane casters for WoF, Haste & Rage. You've described a workable way to play this "gimp build". However, it relies on the party members listening to the arcane caster's strategy, not dictating it. Otherwise, that xerging barbarian will cleave his way through the hypnotized mobs and the healer will be struggling keeping everyone alive with single target heals. IMO, your strategy is a lot more fun than spamming WoF and running in circles.

You might be amazed at how well trained a melee can be not to hit the lollypop, especially if they have hunted with bards before.

But, if they are not, feel free to educate anyone and everyone to not hit the lollypop'ed mobs. Every other caster will thank you.

[katz]

You might be amazed at how well trained a melee can be not to hit the lollypop, especially if they have hunted with bards before.

But, if they are not, feel free to educate anyone and everyone to not hit the lollypop'ed mobs. Every other caster will thank you.

i just taught a new one last night! ^.^

[Trapdoor]

Apparently from what I read, Mass Hold Monster will now be affected by Spell Reistance, can anyone explain what that will mean for holding mobs at epic level or other... ?