Rogue: Restart, looking for TWF DPS & High Skill

[tazel]

Hello everyone. I am looking for advice. (DUH, that's why I'm here...)

I slung my level 9 rogue in the nearest portable hole because to me he was inefficient. Lousy search/spot, and not very well able to handle the punishment of aggro. After reading some guides and some threads, I thought I might try to build a more damaging, aggro-handling and decent AC sneak with good skill sets so that I might be actually *USEFUL* in a group and not so much the healer sponge.

So this is what I came up with. I know there are probably glaring errors to the experienced, but realize I've only played this a couple months, and usually solo as the friends who got me to the game decided to leave, and PUGs didn't want much to do with a gimpythief.

Any and all advice would be welcome. Oh, and for some reason the character generator refused to give me Improved 2weapon even though enhancements pushed my dex over 17. Is it only a base Dex that allows that feat?

Thanks for reading and replies,
Tazel

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    21
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    22
Bluff                 3                    18
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             3                    18
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  6                    28
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  6                    29
Listen                0                     1
Move Silently         6                    28
Open Lock             n/a                  28
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                    18
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III

[Alyiakal]

Base Dex + Level ups + Tomes is all that counts towards feat requirements. If you can get your hands on a +2 DEX tome, this will solve the problem.

Combat Expertise is questionable on a non-AC build (note: assume you are not building towards AC because you're using a 28 point build rogue). I would ditch this for power attack, noticing that all your levelups are into STR (which is good). Being able to do more damage is always a good thing (and can be toggled if you find you have to-hit problems). Similarly, Dodge and it's +1AC bonus can exit this build as well.

I do not see a PrE anywhere in the build. I would assume you would want to build towards an assassin, as that's the most popular rogue PrE and it's about to get a nice boost come U9 with assassinate getting some shine.

I see a lot of random boosts being taken. Human Versatility is very valuable, and it duplicates all your other boosts in effects (although it draws from one pool of uses). The only one it does not duplicate is Haste Boost, which is seriously nice for dishing out a lot of damage. I'd keep both Haste and HV if possible.

Faster sneaking is kind of bleh. Really the only reason to take it is if you are an acrobat, since it's mandatory. As well, Improved Recovery 3 may be a bit pricey for you, considering pure rogues don't have huge HP reserves like barbs anyways.

Why do you have two different Improved Criticals? I recognize that you're attempting to spec for Khops; it would likely be far less cash intensive to spec for a different kind of weapon. Since you say you've only been playing a few months, I'm guessing you don't have a huge gear stash somewhere to outfit this guy immediately. Consider speccing for Rapiers (keep IC Crit), and use a Shortsword off-hand to help your to-hit. Speaking of that, OTWF is debated a lot here. Being gearless, I'd say just go for it, because you'll need as much to-hit as you can get. (EDIT: Note that you do not need OTWF if you go with a Rapier and Shortsword)

Regarding gimped rogue skills; you only need to keep your skills maxed and have a reasonably up to date +skill item for search and disable in order to fulfill this role perfectly. If you are having trouble finding gear, I'd advise a guild. If you tell us what server you're on, folks on the forums would probably be more than happy to donate some equipment.

[Calebro]

^that^ was all good advice

[unbongwah]

It looks like you're trying to build for high AC; the usual advice is don't bother. You're unlikely to have the stats or gear to make it work out on a pure 28-pt rogue; and you're sacrificing DPS for it. Also your skills look a little haphazard; in particular I don't see much point in having so-so Bluff, Diplomacy, and Tumble.

Here are my 28-pt F2P pure Assassin builds. The first is a classic DEX-based halfling using rapiers; the second is a STR-based human using khopeshes. The halfling doesn't require any tomes and will have higher Reflex & to-hit (at least initially), making it easier for newcomers with no twink gear to pull off; but the human gets more skill pts (given the same base INT) and will have higher DPS in the long run. One nice thing about the rogue PrEs is they have no feat pre-reqs, so you can switch between them at any time: e.g., maybe you start off with Mechanic for the boost to trap skills and/or to mess with repeating crossbows; then switch to Assassin later on for the higher SA DPS & other Assassin abilities.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 21
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            17                    26
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Final human feat is open to debate. Some go with Quick Draw to reduce the delay between activating Haste Boost & attacking; but you could also go for Skill Focus UMD, OTWF, or Combat Expertise (if you take at least a +1 INT tome and still really wanna have a go at AC).